Topic: Running the border . . . .

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

After giving it some more thought, I have to say that engaging an opponent when outnumbered from a distance turned away is as valid as starcastling or dropping an admin shuttle out the rear to draw enemy fighter fire from pilots who choose to rely on fighters rather than their ship.

A starcastling foe also could be considered to be wasting the time of an opponent by the same criteria.  Just like the three pilots have the option or cornering the one pilot by flying at high speeds and turning off heavy weapons to corner a single fleeing pilot, a foe facing a starcastling foe has the option of discarding his preferred mode of attack and going in against the star castler.  Or just like a pilot has an option to use an admin shuttle to distract a foe relying too exclusively on computer controlled fighters rather than a personally controlled ship.  When you adopt such tactics you are countering an enemy who is seeking to use something to his advantage.  And the opponent can adopt other tactics to counter such as not star castling or turning away and recalling the figthers that fired at the shuttle for reloading an infinite supply of reloads vs a finite supply of shuttles. , just like a 3 ship fleet pursuing a 1 ship fleet can.

Now if it is only 1 ship pursuing 1 ship there often is no such countering option since a ship can really corner another by itself in some situations and rahter than have an infinite standoff I think the running ship should leave if pursued for a certain length of time by the other ship at top speed.

Now I haven't dropped an admin shuttle on a pursing carrier in a long long long time, but it was due to trying to avoid an action that some of my fellow pilots did not approve of which I saw as completly valid.  This was a show of respect for those pilots and their right to their own opinion and to avoid a flame war.  But if a foe was so disrepectful to me as to accuse me of wasting their time or used profanity in mission with me, if they flew a carrier they would see a fleet of admin shuttles coming at them in return.  After all 76.7% of those polled do think it IS a VALID tactic.

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php?topic=163360361.0

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I apologize to those who overheard me blowing my top last night and dropping choice words in Springer and Teamspeak.

P.S. I haven't hit anyone's karma in about 6 months.

Well here is a +1 for ya being a man and owning up to your error of prfanity usage.  I'll give you another +1 if you complete the action and directly apologize to Slider for the profanity since it was directed at him personally.

[FPF-Paladin]

Paladin and I ran the border vs Duck and Graakna in a DN+NCL vs same. But we didnt run that long. We ran long enough to run them out... hehe

I thought that was a DN-CLC vs DN-CA class match Diz.... and yeah, they ended up off the map and would probably have suffered worse if I'd paid more attention to that map corner...  thinking I shouldn't fly PvP that tired anymore.

Anyway, I agree with all this in the spirit of the rule.  But, I've faced 1v3/1v2 odds a ~lot~ in past servers, and while I understand turning right around and running the red is pretty cheesy, more often than not I'd at least engage the enemy and make them run me off doing whatever damage I could, usually in a line cruiser a little too slow or underpowered to really deal with the speed 31 overrun tactics that are usually used in that situation.  And naturally this means I've lost ships occasionally doing this, but usually I do get away.

As a footnote, I clearly remember a couple servers ago taking on a DN and two CA class cruisers in a F-CF, although they chased me off it wasn't before I cracked shields and scored internals on all three of them, considerably more difficult than the 3 of them concentrating and getting any of my shields down I'd say.  Yeah, it was a CF <enter muffled sounds of chees-io here> but think about how hard it is to smash a shield w fast cruiser armament while avoiding a DN (!!) and two other equally or better armed CAs... I don't think I wasted their time, but I definitely delayed them.

[FPF-DieHard]

Do unto others as you would have done to you.   That's my offical rule regarding Starcastling, Shuttle dropping, border-hugging, and all other "grey areas."

[Dizzy]

I apologize to those who overheard me blowing my top last night and dropping choice words in Springer and Teamspeak.

cAN YOU APOLOGIZE TO ME TOO FOR ? FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN U STINK MB? oops caps.

[Kruk]

I find it hard to kill an enemy when Starcastling in the Dynaverse. If you have an advantage and damage your opponent good, he will usualy disengaged once the spare parts are low. With the low speed your going when starcastling, usualy you don't have time to catch him. Unless you castle only at the beggining and get out of the closet after the first set of OL hit.

On GZ or SL, disengagement was useless as it resulted in a loss anyways.

[KBFKaz]

Seems to be alot of " I did this for 8mins" or "I did that for 8 mins..."

So why don't we say that you can only run the border for a max of 8 mins unless actively engaging the enemy
or preforming repairs (does not include the regeneration of shields, you get 8 mins of running for that).

After the 8 mins has expired, the player must leave or actively engage the enemy. Firing 1 phaser is not ACTIVELY engaging.

If all you have is 1 phaser, then it is quite obvious the odds are not in your favor to win and you should disengage with honor.
If you feel you can win, then by all means stay. There has to be a measure of the honor system here and i do agree with T00l
about the age old disengagement rule. Lets make it fun for everybody.

Oh and btw Gunz, if i had a dime for everytime I worked all day on hexes only to come back the next and see all my work undone, I'd be a millionare. That has very little to do with delaying tactics and more to do with numbers. Something the Coalition is usually in short supply of.

[Slider]

I disagree, Run n Gun even in the face of bad odds is a good tactic if it has or acheives a specific purpose. ie damaging the enemy, delaying the enemy from hex flipping activities, setting up a force to be ambushed by another force, and last making a crew of 2 or 3 earn the 1000 points they are about to otherwise earn in under 2 min.

One of the smartest things i saw on my first Dyna was how smaller ship pilots drafted larger ships to scout and delay other pilots.

As for just phaser fire, not every race has awesome backward fire capabilities. Ive seen some great pilots run and plasma back or drone back chasing a stronger force off. Last night Warp10 and Hhoh Droned back and drove my cheese off...it can be done it just takes......effort.

Then again what can I expect people who call the I-ccy cheese while flying dreadnaughts with swarms of fighters calling themselves pilots(dig). Gee so much skill to hit that fighter launch hotkey(dig-2). The truth is everyone on this server will fly whatever they think will give them an advantage over most if not all pilots. However they hate being showed up.

No ones time is more valuable than anyone elses, nothing stops your force of 3 from flying off the map in the interest of time except your own ego.....

Ive chased off several dreads while in a heavy cruiser and other pilots have killed larger ships (dizzy, firetroll), by your reasoning, I should be leaving the hex because they are bigger and more powerful.

Running the border is not a cheat or exploit its the only way anyone and everyone can get off the map. Playing the way you suggest every D5 should fly off when its cased by a larger ship.....news flash, they dont, they hang around and engage near the border until their forces arive and yes they bug out when it does.

If I had a nickel for every guy that has run off the border to avoid being killed by me Id be typing this from a ship in the Carribean...

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Then again what can I expect people who call the I-ccy  cheese while flying dreadnaughts with swarms of fighters calling themselves pilots. Gee so much skill to hit that fighter launch hotkey.

You know I have enjoyed winging with you when we've had the chance , but I guess I'm as thin skinned as you. Your above statement is a direct shot at me from last night, but you have twisted the facts to suit your self.  I called your ccy cheese when you were challenging available coalition members, who weren't in mission and largely flying light cruisers with a sprinkle of heavy cruisers thrown in, that's when.  It was an hour or more later, when at Ducks urging, I bought the ID. I did not go head hunting with it. We didn't expect to see you when we met up awhile after I had purchased it and I stayed through 3 re-draft attempts after the first one failed to give you the fight you so much wanted, rather than log off and get some much needed, yet insufficient sleep. I wanted to be honorable, I gave you your match. You wanted to fight my DN so much that when Draco got drafted in his bigger ship by you instead of Ramagar, you wanted to fight it out with that. I guess you smelled victory over me the hydran noob pilot.  As for skill launching fighters, there's more skill to it than coming into range 15 and landing all your PPDs through a 1-shift and peeling off. 

Don't whine while ignoring the actual facts. Someone might mistake you for a politician. You knew what you were up against, you knew what you were doing.  You didn't think it was a mismatch or you wouldn't have been so desparate to see this battle happen. I find your warped statement to be a disappointment.

[Slider]

LOL, Deep breath.....ummmmmmmmmmmmm, JOKE! Yea thats why I typed (dig and dig-2), and no it wasnt meant to insult you (just Hydrans who are killiing me in general in fact ive seen nothing but IDs coming at me for the past 5 days in PvPs including my battle that started this whole post (by the way DH my alleged team mate nearly killed me), so dont flatter yourself by thinking my post is directed at you(dig3). 

Its all fair bro and I really have no problem with ship selections, I know its there I know it can kill me. Ive been killed by IDs 2x now once with the assist of a Rock once and Rocks dont read forums so I thought I'd pick on you fighter scum. The fact that I lost 2x now to IDs makes me want to kill them even more....silly me.

Reason why I fought you guys even though you drafted bigger is because I try to fight period, im not looking for an advantage if I lose I get mad at myself and go sulk in the bathroom under the shower turning the lights off and on with the clapper.

But if really think this is about you I'll take it off. (Stinking fighter Jock) (Damn I called you a prick last night and didnt get a rise out of you.)

Please forgive me Dax i cant keep flying if you dont       oh and give me back my Karma Fighter scum you know how hard it is to get to 11!!

Love

your Cheese flying, non-sportsman, cheap border runing jerk  and now thin skined Slider_____ 

(im not...really)

Oh and Shadowload your a blackhole surfing runner, turn and fight dog take your drone enema like man.

[FPF-DieHard]

That has very little to do with delaying tactics and more to do with numbers. Something the Coalition is usually in short supply of.

94 % as many Coalition misiosn shave been flown in the first 2 rounds of the server.   Hmm . . .. .

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

LOL, Deep breath.....ummmmmmmmmmmmm, JOKE! Yea thats why I typed (dig and dig-2), and no it wasnt meant to insult you (just Hydrans who are killiing me in general in fact ive seen nothing but IDs coming at me for the past 5 days in PvPs including my battle that started this whole post (by the way DH my alleged team mate nearly killed me), so dont flatter yourself by thinking my post is directed at you(dig3). 

Its all fair bro and I really have no problem with ship selections, I know its there I know it can kill me. Ive been killed by IDs 2x now once with the assist of a Rock once and Rocks dont read forums so I thought I'd pick on you fighter scum. The fact that I lost 2x now to IDs makes me want to kill them even more....silly me.

Reason why I fought you guys even though you drafted bigger is because I try to fight period, im not looking for an advantage if I lose I get mad at myself and go sulk in the bathroom under the shower turning the lights off and on with the clapper.

But if really think this is about you I'll take it off. (Stinking fighter Jock) (Damn I called you a prick last night and didnt get a rise out of you.)

Please forgive me Dax i cant keep flying if you dont       oh and give me back my Karma Fighter scum you know how hard it is to get to 11!!

Love

your Cheese flying, non-sportsman, cheap border runing jerk  and now thin skined Slider_____ 

(im not...really)

Oh and Shadowload your a blackhole surfing runner, turn and fight dog take your drone enema like man.

Sit down bud, this will getcha.  I have not docked you karma and how you first made it to that high is in part due to me. I gave you more the other day when this thread first started and have made past contributions.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

I see it as a delaying tactic, but really.. the kitties DO have the numbers.. no one NEEDS to be doing delaying tactics... here is why:
A) IT IS BORING to just sit there making minor course corrections firing the occasional hellborne while flying around at speed 31. Not my idea of PvP
B) As t00l said, ITS A GAME!! Not the actual military
C) Kitties really do have the numbers overall... so what if the coalition took back that planet cause there weren't any PvP delaying tactics??? I'm sure there would not have been any trouble retaking that, and actually planets CHANGING constantly makes the game MORE fun(more PvP and more hex flipping).. much better then flying at speed 31, taking a sip of drink, then adjusting your course slightly to avoid crossing the border watching out for the ever so often drones, or some T-bombing.
D) Generates less controversy like this...

If your in a ship you know cant win against a certain ship or a group of ships, then just 180HET and leave at speed 31 is the best thing to do in my opinion. Or fly in a straight line to exchange some phaser fire while heading to the border on the other side of the map. The maps are large enough where if you did wish to ambush them you'd more then likely still be waiting to cross the border by the time your group was ready to come in and ambush them.
I do understand flying to the border while repairing.. that part I am OK with, and don't consider a waste of time.

[Slider]

LOL, Deep breath.....ummmmmmmmmmmmm, JOKE! Yea thats why I typed (dig and dig-2), and no it wasnt meant to insult you (just Hydrans who are killiing me in general in fact ive seen nothing but IDs coming at me for the past 5 days in PvPs including my battle that started this whole post (by the way DH my alleged team mate nearly killed me), so dont flatter yourself by thinking my post is directed at you(dig3). 

Its all fair bro and I really have no problem with ship selections, I know its there I know it can kill me. Ive been killed by IDs 2x now once with the assist of a Rock once and Rocks dont read forums so I thought I'd pick on you fighter scum. The fact that I lost 2x now to IDs makes me want to kill them even more....silly me.

Reason why I fought you guys even though you drafted bigger is because I try to fight period, im not looking for an advantage if I lose I get mad at myself and go sulk in the bathroom under the shower turning the lights off and on with the clapper.

But if really think this is about you I'll take it off. (Stinking fighter Jock) (Damn I called you a prick last night and didnt get a rise out of you.)

Please forgive me Dax i cant keep flying if you dont       oh and give me back my Karma Fighter scum you know how hard it is to get to 11!!

Love

your Cheese flying, non-sportsman, cheap border runing jerk  and now thin skined Slider_____ 

(im not...really)

Oh and Shadowload your a blackhole surfing runner, turn and fight dog take your drone enema like man.

Sit down bud, this will getcha.  I have not docked you karma and how you first made it to that high is in part due to me. I gave you more the other day when this thread first started and have made past contributions.

See I love you man!

Can we hug now?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Um.....no.

[Slider]

I see it as a delaying tactic, but really.. the kitties DO have the numbers.. no one NEEDS to be doing delaying tactics... here is why:
A) IT IS BORING to just sit there making minor course corrections firing the occasional hellborne while flying around at speed 31. Not my idea of PvP
B) As t00l said, ITS A GAME!! Not the actual military
C) Kitties really do have the numbers overall... so what if the coalition took back that planet cause there weren't any PvP delaying tactics??? I'm sure there would not have been any trouble retaking that, and actually planets CHANGING constantly makes the game MORE fun(more PvP and more hex flipping).. much better then flying at speed 31, taking a sip of drink, then adjusting your course slightly to avoid crossing the border watching out for the ever so often drones, or some T-bombing.
D) Generates less controversy like this...

If your in a ship you know cant win against a certain ship or a group of ships, then just 180HET and leave at speed 31 is the best thing to do in my opinion. Or fly in a straight line to exchange some phaser fire while heading to the border on the other side of the map. The maps are large enough where if you did wish to ambush them you'd more then likely still be waiting to cross the border by the time your group was ready to come in and ambush them.
I do understand flying to the border while repairing.. that part I am OK with, and don't consider a waste of time.

A. Its the most intense 5 min to 1 hour fighting off 3 ships. Your chances of winning is slim but you can give your opponent a bloody nose and let them know they were in a fight.  And if you win OMG you will be branded a cheater like no other....(your friends of course will call you an Ace until you run into a Rock then call you a n00b again) Flying a C7 in a 1 hour battle i defeated 2 Fed NCDS and 1 BCF and let me tell you my heart was pounding the whole time and winning made my year. (As opposed to running into a rock while trying to fight Dax's fighters)

B. This IS a Military game... its not the Price is Right or American Idol Home Edition if you cant see then I cant help you. In fact your side just pulled off a brilliant Military move of supply line sabotage I've witnessed in this game. But if all you can do it parrot what t00l said then maybe he should 'splain it to you.

C. Yes I think the concensus is that this is a great Dyna. As to your latter comments see A.

D.Controversy.......hmmm America was built on great debate not silent acquiescence. The crux of this is that you want me to fly off when you have the option to fly off as well. I see no problem and I will not fly my ship as my enemy (that's you) wants me too. IE Though shalt not face 3 Hydran cruisers and 80 fighters with one CB. Run like mad attack them and when it seems like your going to die, steal victory from the jaws of death escaping to fight another day!!!!

Again if YOU dont like that YOU can run off the map yourself or better yet lower your shileds after all this isnt a Military game and let me shoot you.

The real funny part is the Server Admin ruled on this and your still in here posting....I wonder...

How many times other than my little escapade has someone run the border.....both sides...I know Ram did it and I did...but who else? Is this really about a "practice" or is it more about winning the arguement and backing your buddy.

I have this new theory as to why Shadowload flew around that black hole so many times last night. Big Black Hole with specs around it that could be delusioned into regrowing hair folicals. MY god if I didnt know better Id swear he was Rimming the Hole......YUCK!

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Never said it wasnt a military game.. I said it wasnt the actual real life military.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

That has very little to do with delaying tactics and more to do with numbers. Something the Coalition is usually in short supply of.

94 % as many Coalition misiosn shave been flown in the first 2 rounds of the server.   Hmm . . .. .

And this doesn't necessarily reflect the number of man hours on the server.  You can have more numbers and still run less missions.  I'd wager that the Coalition has more man hours on the server than the Kitties.  The Kitties had the DF in early and that gave them a mission advantage which has been getting smaller according to the statistics as that advantage has largely disappeared. The coalition has cut the margin now to 6% overall from 10% in round 1. Fact is it is damn close, perhaps the closest ever.

[Slider]

Never said it wasnt a military game.. I said it wasnt the actual real life military.

"You shouldn't run the border in engaged fire because its not real military life."

Capt. if I may call you that; I can't reply to this without completely hurting your feelings.

[Centurus]

Slider, HQ, put it to rest.  While I know I'm the last person to chime in, this is getting ridiculous, and the game's integrity is being hurt big time by this continuing.

I know I can't really do much to get you to put it to rest Slider, I do expect HQ to put it to rest. 

If I have to, I'll drag an admin to close this thread.  All this bickering and such is personally making me sick of this game.

Everyone says that we're all adults and we can handle a little hackling.  If we're also adults, we can also conduct ourselves as such, insanity and sillyness aside.  This has gone far beyond hackling.

No more.