Topic: Running the border . . . .

[FPF-DieHard]

I know there are no rules SPECIFICLY saying not to do this but I would like to ask all pilots not to waiste other people's time.  If you are enganged in combat, shooting each other, causing and taking internals I consider that to be fine.   Intentionally running the border at speed 31 with no intention of engaging the enemy is not cool and very un-sportsmanlike.

It's hard to define waisting somebody's time so I'll put it this way, don't do what you wouldn't want done to your side.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Indeed.. it does annoy me GREATLY.. Chucking drones, or plasmas, or mines just to keep off 2 or 3 ships while stalling for time on the border.It'll serve no purpose anyways, except to make people mad. Its not gonna leave exactly the best mark/reputation for future PvP either...

[Soreyes]

So true. I will admit that there are times when I do run the border........ thats when some certain people are telling me to not come out of mission yet. Just because they don't have every one in place to jump the three players chasing me 

[Dizzy]

Paladin and I ran the border vs Duck and Graakna in a DN+NCL vs same. But we didnt run that long. We ran long enough to run them out... hehe

[el-Karnak]

The big innovation of the warp-out missions with a humungous map is the elimination of the red-lines.   I am in the process of converting the EEK battle scripts to this effect.

[Dizzy]

I think warpout speed or warp speed should be based on the percentage of engines you have left. So lets say u set warp speed to 1000. Then for every 10 percent of engine damage u drop 100 move speed. That possible? With half engine damage, you might just be able to warp out if you go to warp long enough before your opponent has warped in pursuit.

[FPF-DieHard]

The current set on ED Missions have pretty big maps.   There have been LOTS of dead DNs this server because it's harder to escape.   As a Server admin, this is 1000% what I wanted.   It's not a bug, it's a feature!!!

Small Maps just lead to lots of run-offs because it's too easy to get cornered and forced off.   The big maps seem to be leading to a tons of kills.  When was the last time we've had 10 dead DNs on a server in 2 weeks?

I think the post-2280 "cheese and chase" battles will work well with this set of scripts. 

[Slider]

Well I'm getting negative karma for not posting so im going to post.

In just about every fight I've been in on this server people fight at or near the border. All that map space and the first place they go to set up is withing 10-15 of the border. As soon as you get a few vollies they are gone. Those who do this say "the border is a vaild feature used much like a planet or a rock." I agree... (Had I been wiser I would have heeded this and not lost my dread yesterday instead of trying to turn back to my wing)

Delaying Operation Definition: (DOD, NATO) An operation in which a force under pressure trades space for time by slowing down the enemy's momentum and inflicting maximum damage on the enemy without, in principle, becoming decisively engaged

Running a "Delaying Operation" against 3 v 1 as I did is a valid tactical manuver. 3 ships unless they a huddle together should be able to cut off and force a run off the map of any one ship. I gave up space and tried as best I could in the face of a superior force to inflict damage. A player should not give up territory till the last possible moment as decribed above in more even scenarios.

If you dont want long drawn out missions because your pressed for time fly against the AI. While I understand that making people run in front of your big heavy guns makes you feel like a stud, dont be surprised if some try to fight back.

This is what I did last night. By consuming 8 minutes of time instead of just flying off in 2.  Thats less time for the enemy to destroy my progress that I had been working for all day in their prime time surge and it makes them earn the 800-1000 points they get.

It's also great as already mentioned to set up a counter attack or lead them into an ambush. I'm playing a military game I use everything in my power to win even when I cant.


Now for those of you that will scoff at me before you hit that negative Karma there is a way you can get me to just fly off. In chat during the game say. "Daddy please dont hurt me and fly off before my wife catches me on the computer" At which point I will take a screenie and fly off the map for you so i can post the pic on the forums.

In closing, T00l 762 whatever you name is.  Last night you called me a jerk, a cheap player, disrespectful  and some other choice words because I ran a Delaying Operation. I wont retort  but who is truely being disrespectful? I will say that I will fight you anywhere on this server 1 v 1 any race, any size ships in the middle of the map no running for the border.

Regards

[Edited to blunt my own comments]

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

As long as you exchange fire, there shouldn't be a problem. I have had a few people whine at me when I'm in a droner that I'm just going to leave when I run out of drones so leave at the start.  That's a possibility, but I have killed people a few times and damaged others, even in a 1 v 3.  So it happens near the border at times? Too bad. Disengagement is a valid option once you are sure that you can't win. While I think there's a chance to win, I'll stay.
Chuut and I fought near the border line for several minutes yesterday, d5-L to Z-dwd?  He left eventually, but I'm not whining because it was a terrific game with each doing what he could to kill the other, but the option to disengage was available and as any wise commander would, it was taken rather than lose his ship.
Put a time limit on going without a shot? Won't work. Someone will fire a phaser 3 every 30 seconds. On the other hand, what do certain players want? I've had Jerks tell me I wa wasting there time, not engaging them, when I was letting them chase me and firing drones and ph-1s into their nose and they were taking internals. Was I just suppode to run up to him and hit emergency stop and let him unleash all his plasma? Is everyone supposed to just head in to each other nose to nose and slug it out? C'mon! I doubt anyone will find a balance here. The best of intentions would be if you aren't going to take the slightest risk in battle, leave.

[FPF-DieHard]

Slider, as far as I'm concerned you didn't do anything wrong.   You took internals, almost caused damage to me, and I came a klunt-hair away from nabbing your ass with a tractor.  The mission was 8:30, you didn't run around the map for an hour so as far as I'm concerned you did cross the line.

Next time please remmeber the CA covering your DN is there to die so you don't have to

[FPF-DieHard]

I've had Jerks tell me I wa wasting there time, not engaging them, when I was letting them chase me and firing drones and ph-1s into their nose and they were taking internals. Was I just suppode to run up to him and hit emergency stop and let him unleash all his plasma? Is everyone supposed to just head in to each other nose to nose and slug it out? C'mon! I doubt anyone will find a balance here. The best of intentions would be if you aren't going to take the slightest risk in battle, leave.

This is my official opinion as server admin.   if you are causing or taking internals/shield damage and firing within relaistic weapons range you are not waisting the person's time. 

Follow the golden rule, do unto others as you would have done to you.   And PLEASE be nice to each other, the few incidents we've had over this stuff have been very minor and there's no need to make mountains out of ant-hills.

[762_XC]

Fight or leave has been a rule since we've HAD rules on the D2.

If I have to explain why running the border at 31 in a 3v1 for 8 minutes is wrong to someone, while firing no weapons but your 2 drone racks that you don't have to spend power on, chances are they they don't really care why it's wrong. They're just going to abuse whatever rule is put in place anyway and get away with whatever they can.

It's not a delaying tactic. It's a waste of someone's time, and the fact that this is the first server in ages that hasn't explicitly had it as a rule is no excuse.

This isn't NATO. It's a GAME. People decided long ago they didn't want "delaying tactics" in mission, hence the age old rule.

I apologize to those who overheard me blowing my top last night and dropping choice words in Springer and Teamspeak.

P.S. I haven't hit anyone's karma in about 6 months.

[Farfarer]

I proposed race-trait rules mant times.  One of which was Klingon ships may never disengage, period. Adjust BPV/cost accordingly and carry on. I suppose you could say Klink/Lyr/Mir may never disengage.  Feds only when it is 2 v 1.  ROMs can disengage anytime, anywhere, and are never banned from any hexes for any reaon but if they lose a CA or higher they lose their whole account. (Start again).

[el-Karnak]

I think warpout speed or warp speed should be based on the percentage of engines you have left. So lets say u set warp speed to 1000. Then for every 10 percent of engine damage u drop 100 move speed. That possible? With half engine damage, you might just be able to warp out if you go to warp long enough before your opponent has warped in pursuit.

I have my EEK Test warp-out mission set to require a min. speed for a ship to be able to warp out.  I think it's 20 or so.  There are lots of way to formulate the min. speed. I think I based the min. speed on the R-WE's max. possible speed. 

PS. I have always regarded the R-WE as the truely original R-Warbird from TOS "Balance of Terror" episode. The R-WB is just some glorified taxi-cab that cannot even leave the Romulan homeworld's solar system.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Running the border for a bit during combat, or near the end of a fight that you think you're on the losing end of is one thing,
If you need time to repair is another acceptable circumstance.
But, Going straight for the border as soon as the mission starts, then saying in the red line the entire match while only popping intermediate fire is ridiculous.

[Slider]

Running the border for a bit during combat, or near the end of a fight that you think you're on the losing end of is one thing,
If you need time to repair is another acceptable circumstance.
But, Going straight for the border as soon as the mission starts, then saying in the red line the entire match while only popping intermediate fire is ridiculous.

Faced against 3 heavies and all their fighters I need to be able to warp out in a moments notice.

If I could warp from the center of the map Id fly it the same way except id be in the middle of the map. However Id still be running as I cant fly in nose to nose. They of course need to turn off guns to run at 31 and that allows me to engage in a run and gun battle with the closest ship. Again tactically sound.

The fact that I was in a CB and only had phasers and some drones to fire is just a fact. Had I plasma this might have been a different story. They were at or near me at all times engaged not at range 30. They came withing 2.54 of tractoring me (as well they should) and killing me.

No one has a problem when i did the same then and they killed my CAY (2 v 1), my DNL( 2 v 2 but with a cloud of fighters basically a fast firing 3rd ship).
I flew a DE against a Rom (Blazinbud) and we actually tractored each other on the border run. I feel I engage as much as I can without losing my ship. The fact that I can only escape a more powerful enemy from the border is just a game reality.

My goal is to hurt the opponent, to make them buy repairs and consumables, and yes if I can use 2000k of ship and tie up 15000k of Heavies and fighters to give my guys time not to be run off and fly missions then so be it.

Our goal was to hold the planet and we did......perhaps you should review your enagement practices.

Perhaps we should agree to fight all of the battles in the middle of the map only being able to move within 5 of the border when and if you get to less than 1/2 hull. Not like now where people go there in 2 v 2 and fight there to be able to get off at the first  sign of danger.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Perhaps we should agree to fight all of the battles in the middle of the map only being able to move within 5 of the border when and if you get to less than 1/2 hull. Not like now where people go there in 2 v 2 and fight there to be able to get off at the first  sign of danger.

thats the difference between a Dreadnaught and a Dreadnot.  It becomes quickly apparent which is being flown against you in a fairly equal battle. 

[Hexx]

While I agree you should fight- the map's the battleground.

The whole map. Both inside the line and out.

If you can't kill someone before they get make it off- well then you need to improve.

I can't even remember the number of times that <expletive deleted> t00l's killed me over the red line when I thought I wa safe..

[Slider]

The big innovation of the warp-out missions with a humungous map is the elimination of the red-lines.   I am in the process of converting the EEK battle scripts to this effect.

I like this idea alot.....I hope you succeed Karnak

[el-Karnak]

The big innovation of the warp-out missions with a humungous map is the elimination of the red-lines.   I am in the process of converting the EEK battle scripts to this effect.

I like this idea alot.....I hope you succeed Karnak

I found my old test script from last fall. Your are welcome to give it a try:

Here are my latest two test scripts, but I still have to put in some activation delays for warp that would follow the same 20 second process used by the ship self-destruction method, instead after 20 seconds the ship would goto warp, not explode.

Meta campaign script for single-player campaign and dynaverse (title: Enemy Sweep Patrol):
http://www.eek-scripts.com/ftp/Kar_ePatrol_warp.zip

In this mission, ROM AI are not allowed to cloak, and ships will start at speed 7.

Skirmish mission (title: Hostile Skirmish (Warp-out) ):
http://www.eek-scripts.com/ftp/Ski_1Free4All_warp.zip

Both missions have audio playback based on race announcing warp drive activation and make warp out Whoosh!! sounds.  They use maps that are 5 times larger than the original EEK Patrol map. The BIG maps will work for all terrains in Kar_ePatrol_warp mission and in the empty space maps in Ski_1Free4All_warp mission. At speed 31, it would take a ship 15 minutes to exit the map, so you will definitely need to warp out of there.   

Once warp drive is engaged the ship will goto Green Alert status and it will be impossible to change back to yellow or red alert status. In addition, once warp drive is activated, it will not dis-engage.

To Install and get ready to play:
1) Extract ZIP file contents to your game's /assets/scripts folder.
2) Backup your existing Ski_1Free4All.scr file and replace with the Ski_1Free4All_warp.scr file.
3) Start up SFCOP game.
3) For skirmish mission, choose Hostile Skirmish.
4) For a dynaverse mission, choose a campaign and startup single-player campaign (ie. you have to edit your chosen campaign's MCT file to put in the "kar_epatrol_warp entry).

When in-mission, to engage Warp Factor One (which is 3000+ speed)
1) goto speed 23.1 or more
2) Hit deep scan button
3) Whoosh!!