Topic: Running the border . . . .

[FPF-DieHard]

I know there are no rules SPECIFICLY saying not to do this but I would like to ask all pilots not to waiste other people's time.  If you are enganged in combat, shooting each other, causing and taking internals I consider that to be fine.   Intentionally running the border at speed 31 with no intention of engaging the enemy is not cool and very un-sportsmanlike.

It's hard to define waisting somebody's time so I'll put it this way, don't do what you wouldn't want done to your side.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Indeed.. it does annoy me GREATLY.. Chucking drones, or plasmas, or mines just to keep off 2 or 3 ships while stalling for time on the border.It'll serve no purpose anyways, except to make people mad. Its not gonna leave exactly the best mark/reputation for future PvP either...

[Soreyes]

So true. I will admit that there are times when I do run the border........ thats when some certain people are telling me to not come out of mission yet. Just because they don't have every one in place to jump the three players chasing me 

[Dizzy]

Paladin and I ran the border vs Duck and Graakna in a DN+NCL vs same. But we didnt run that long. We ran long enough to run them out... hehe

[el-Karnak]

The big innovation of the warp-out missions with a humungous map is the elimination of the red-lines.   I am in the process of converting the EEK battle scripts to this effect.

[Dizzy]

I think warpout speed or warp speed should be based on the percentage of engines you have left. So lets say u set warp speed to 1000. Then for every 10 percent of engine damage u drop 100 move speed. That possible? With half engine damage, you might just be able to warp out if you go to warp long enough before your opponent has warped in pursuit.

[FPF-DieHard]

The current set on ED Missions have pretty big maps.   There have been LOTS of dead DNs this server because it's harder to escape.   As a Server admin, this is 1000% what I wanted.   It's not a bug, it's a feature!!!

Small Maps just lead to lots of run-offs because it's too easy to get cornered and forced off.   The big maps seem to be leading to a tons of kills.  When was the last time we've had 10 dead DNs on a server in 2 weeks?

I think the post-2280 "cheese and chase" battles will work well with this set of scripts. 

[Slider]

Well I'm getting negative karma for not posting so im going to post.

In just about every fight I've been in on this server people fight at or near the border. All that map space and the first place they go to set up is withing 10-15 of the border. As soon as you get a few vollies they are gone. Those who do this say "the border is a vaild feature used much like a planet or a rock." I agree... (Had I been wiser I would have heeded this and not lost my dread yesterday instead of trying to turn back to my wing)

Delaying Operation Definition: (DOD, NATO) An operation in which a force under pressure trades space for time by slowing down the enemy's momentum and inflicting maximum damage on the enemy without, in principle, becoming decisively engaged

Running a "Delaying Operation" against 3 v 1 as I did is a valid tactical manuver. 3 ships unless they a huddle together should be able to cut off and force a run off the map of any one ship. I gave up space and tried as best I could in the face of a superior force to inflict damage. A player should not give up territory till the last possible moment as decribed above in more even scenarios.

If you dont want long drawn out missions because your pressed for time fly against the AI. While I understand that making people run in front of your big heavy guns makes you feel like a stud, dont be surprised if some try to fight back.

This is what I did last night. By consuming 8 minutes of time instead of just flying off in 2.  Thats less time for the enemy to destroy my progress that I had been working for all day in their prime time surge and it makes them earn the 800-1000 points they get.

It's also great as already mentioned to set up a counter attack or lead them into an ambush. I'm playing a military game I use everything in my power to win even when I cant.


Now for those of you that will scoff at me before you hit that negative Karma there is a way you can get me to just fly off. In chat during the game say. "Daddy please dont hurt me and fly off before my wife catches me on the computer" At which point I will take a screenie and fly off the map for you so i can post the pic on the forums.

In closing, T00l 762 whatever you name is.  Last night you called me a jerk, a cheap player, disrespectful  and some other choice words because I ran a Delaying Operation. I wont retort  but who is truely being disrespectful? I will say that I will fight you anywhere on this server 1 v 1 any race, any size ships in the middle of the map no running for the border.

Regards

[Edited to blunt my own comments]

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

As long as you exchange fire, there shouldn't be a problem. I have had a few people whine at me when I'm in a droner that I'm just going to leave when I run out of drones so leave at the start.  That's a possibility, but I have killed people a few times and damaged others, even in a 1 v 3.  So it happens near the border at times? Too bad. Disengagement is a valid option once you are sure that you can't win. While I think there's a chance to win, I'll stay.
Chuut and I fought near the border line for several minutes yesterday, d5-L to Z-dwd?  He left eventually, but I'm not whining because it was a terrific game with each doing what he could to kill the other, but the option to disengage was available and as any wise commander would, it was taken rather than lose his ship.
Put a time limit on going without a shot? Won't work. Someone will fire a phaser 3 every 30 seconds. On the other hand, what do certain players want? I've had Jerks tell me I wa wasting there time, not engaging them, when I was letting them chase me and firing drones and ph-1s into their nose and they were taking internals. Was I just suppode to run up to him and hit emergency stop and let him unleash all his plasma? Is everyone supposed to just head in to each other nose to nose and slug it out? C'mon! I doubt anyone will find a balance here. The best of intentions would be if you aren't going to take the slightest risk in battle, leave.

[FPF-DieHard]

Slider, as far as I'm concerned you didn't do anything wrong.   You took internals, almost caused damage to me, and I came a klunt-hair away from nabbing your ass with a tractor.  The mission was 8:30, you didn't run around the map for an hour so as far as I'm concerned you did cross the line.

Next time please remmeber the CA covering your DN is there to die so you don't have to

[FPF-DieHard]

I've had Jerks tell me I wa wasting there time, not engaging them, when I was letting them chase me and firing drones and ph-1s into their nose and they were taking internals. Was I just suppode to run up to him and hit emergency stop and let him unleash all his plasma? Is everyone supposed to just head in to each other nose to nose and slug it out? C'mon! I doubt anyone will find a balance here. The best of intentions would be if you aren't going to take the slightest risk in battle, leave.

This is my official opinion as server admin.   if you are causing or taking internals/shield damage and firing within relaistic weapons range you are not waisting the person's time. 

Follow the golden rule, do unto others as you would have done to you.   And PLEASE be nice to each other, the few incidents we've had over this stuff have been very minor and there's no need to make mountains out of ant-hills.

[762_XC]

Fight or leave has been a rule since we've HAD rules on the D2.

If I have to explain why running the border at 31 in a 3v1 for 8 minutes is wrong to someone, while firing no weapons but your 2 drone racks that you don't have to spend power on, chances are they they don't really care why it's wrong. They're just going to abuse whatever rule is put in place anyway and get away with whatever they can.

It's not a delaying tactic. It's a waste of someone's time, and the fact that this is the first server in ages that hasn't explicitly had it as a rule is no excuse.

This isn't NATO. It's a GAME. People decided long ago they didn't want "delaying tactics" in mission, hence the age old rule.

I apologize to those who overheard me blowing my top last night and dropping choice words in Springer and Teamspeak.

P.S. I haven't hit anyone's karma in about 6 months.

[Farfarer]

I proposed race-trait rules mant times.  One of which was Klingon ships may never disengage, period. Adjust BPV/cost accordingly and carry on. I suppose you could say Klink/Lyr/Mir may never disengage.  Feds only when it is 2 v 1.  ROMs can disengage anytime, anywhere, and are never banned from any hexes for any reaon but if they lose a CA or higher they lose their whole account. (Start again).

[el-Karnak]

I think warpout speed or warp speed should be based on the percentage of engines you have left. So lets say u set warp speed to 1000. Then for every 10 percent of engine damage u drop 100 move speed. That possible? With half engine damage, you might just be able to warp out if you go to warp long enough before your opponent has warped in pursuit.

I have my EEK Test warp-out mission set to require a min. speed for a ship to be able to warp out.  I think it's 20 or so.  There are lots of way to formulate the min. speed. I think I based the min. speed on the R-WE's max. possible speed. 

PS. I have always regarded the R-WE as the truely original R-Warbird from TOS "Balance of Terror" episode. The R-WB is just some glorified taxi-cab that cannot even leave the Romulan homeworld's solar system.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Running the border for a bit during combat, or near the end of a fight that you think you're on the losing end of is one thing,
If you need time to repair is another acceptable circumstance.
But, Going straight for the border as soon as the mission starts, then saying in the red line the entire match while only popping intermediate fire is ridiculous.

[Slider]

Running the border for a bit during combat, or near the end of a fight that you think you're on the losing end of is one thing,
If you need time to repair is another acceptable circumstance.
But, Going straight for the border as soon as the mission starts, then saying in the red line the entire match while only popping intermediate fire is ridiculous.

Faced against 3 heavies and all their fighters I need to be able to warp out in a moments notice.

If I could warp from the center of the map Id fly it the same way except id be in the middle of the map. However Id still be running as I cant fly in nose to nose. They of course need to turn off guns to run at 31 and that allows me to engage in a run and gun battle with the closest ship. Again tactically sound.

The fact that I was in a CB and only had phasers and some drones to fire is just a fact. Had I plasma this might have been a different story. They were at or near me at all times engaged not at range 30. They came withing 2.54 of tractoring me (as well they should) and killing me.

No one has a problem when i did the same then and they killed my CAY (2 v 1), my DNL( 2 v 2 but with a cloud of fighters basically a fast firing 3rd ship).
I flew a DE against a Rom (Blazinbud) and we actually tractored each other on the border run. I feel I engage as much as I can without losing my ship. The fact that I can only escape a more powerful enemy from the border is just a game reality.

My goal is to hurt the opponent, to make them buy repairs and consumables, and yes if I can use 2000k of ship and tie up 15000k of Heavies and fighters to give my guys time not to be run off and fly missions then so be it.

Our goal was to hold the planet and we did......perhaps you should review your enagement practices.

Perhaps we should agree to fight all of the battles in the middle of the map only being able to move within 5 of the border when and if you get to less than 1/2 hull. Not like now where people go there in 2 v 2 and fight there to be able to get off at the first  sign of danger.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Perhaps we should agree to fight all of the battles in the middle of the map only being able to move within 5 of the border when and if you get to less than 1/2 hull. Not like now where people go there in 2 v 2 and fight there to be able to get off at the first  sign of danger.

thats the difference between a Dreadnaught and a Dreadnot.  It becomes quickly apparent which is being flown against you in a fairly equal battle. 

[Hexx]

While I agree you should fight- the map's the battleground.

The whole map. Both inside the line and out.

If you can't kill someone before they get make it off- well then you need to improve.

I can't even remember the number of times that <expletive deleted> t00l's killed me over the red line when I thought I wa safe..

[Slider]

The big innovation of the warp-out missions with a humungous map is the elimination of the red-lines.   I am in the process of converting the EEK battle scripts to this effect.

I like this idea alot.....I hope you succeed Karnak

[el-Karnak]

The big innovation of the warp-out missions with a humungous map is the elimination of the red-lines.   I am in the process of converting the EEK battle scripts to this effect.

I like this idea alot.....I hope you succeed Karnak

I found my old test script from last fall. Your are welcome to give it a try:

Here are my latest two test scripts, but I still have to put in some activation delays for warp that would follow the same 20 second process used by the ship self-destruction method, instead after 20 seconds the ship would goto warp, not explode.

Meta campaign script for single-player campaign and dynaverse (title: Enemy Sweep Patrol):
http://www.eek-scripts.com/ftp/Kar_ePatrol_warp.zip

In this mission, ROM AI are not allowed to cloak, and ships will start at speed 7.

Skirmish mission (title: Hostile Skirmish (Warp-out) ):
http://www.eek-scripts.com/ftp/Ski_1Free4All_warp.zip

Both missions have audio playback based on race announcing warp drive activation and make warp out Whoosh!! sounds.  They use maps that are 5 times larger than the original EEK Patrol map. The BIG maps will work for all terrains in Kar_ePatrol_warp mission and in the empty space maps in Ski_1Free4All_warp mission. At speed 31, it would take a ship 15 minutes to exit the map, so you will definitely need to warp out of there.   

Once warp drive is engaged the ship will goto Green Alert status and it will be impossible to change back to yellow or red alert status. In addition, once warp drive is activated, it will not dis-engage.

To Install and get ready to play:
1) Extract ZIP file contents to your game's /assets/scripts folder.
2) Backup your existing Ski_1Free4All.scr file and replace with the Ski_1Free4All_warp.scr file.
3) Start up SFCOP game.
3) For skirmish mission, choose Hostile Skirmish.
4) For a dynaverse mission, choose a campaign and startup single-player campaign (ie. you have to edit your chosen campaign's MCT file to put in the "kar_epatrol_warp entry).

When in-mission, to engage Warp Factor One (which is 3000+ speed)
1) goto speed 23.1 or more
2) Hit deep scan button
3) Whoosh!!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

After giving it some more thought, I have to say that engaging an opponent when outnumbered from a distance turned away is as valid as starcastling or dropping an admin shuttle out the rear to draw enemy fighter fire from pilots who choose to rely on fighters rather than their ship.

A starcastling foe also could be considered to be wasting the time of an opponent by the same criteria.  Just like the three pilots have the option or cornering the one pilot by flying at high speeds and turning off heavy weapons to corner a single fleeing pilot, a foe facing a starcastling foe has the option of discarding his preferred mode of attack and going in against the star castler.  Or just like a pilot has an option to use an admin shuttle to distract a foe relying too exclusively on computer controlled fighters rather than a personally controlled ship.  When you adopt such tactics you are countering an enemy who is seeking to use something to his advantage.  And the opponent can adopt other tactics to counter such as not star castling or turning away and recalling the figthers that fired at the shuttle for reloading an infinite supply of reloads vs a finite supply of shuttles. , just like a 3 ship fleet pursuing a 1 ship fleet can.

Now if it is only 1 ship pursuing 1 ship there often is no such countering option since a ship can really corner another by itself in some situations and rahter than have an infinite standoff I think the running ship should leave if pursued for a certain length of time by the other ship at top speed.

Now I haven't dropped an admin shuttle on a pursing carrier in a long long long time, but it was due to trying to avoid an action that some of my fellow pilots did not approve of which I saw as completly valid.  This was a show of respect for those pilots and their right to their own opinion and to avoid a flame war.  But if a foe was so disrepectful to me as to accuse me of wasting their time or used profanity in mission with me, if they flew a carrier they would see a fleet of admin shuttles coming at them in return.  After all 76.7% of those polled do think it IS a VALID tactic.

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php?topic=163360361.0

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I apologize to those who overheard me blowing my top last night and dropping choice words in Springer and Teamspeak.

P.S. I haven't hit anyone's karma in about 6 months.

Well here is a +1 for ya being a man and owning up to your error of prfanity usage.  I'll give you another +1 if you complete the action and directly apologize to Slider for the profanity since it was directed at him personally.

[FPF-Paladin]

Paladin and I ran the border vs Duck and Graakna in a DN+NCL vs same. But we didnt run that long. We ran long enough to run them out... hehe

I thought that was a DN-CLC vs DN-CA class match Diz.... and yeah, they ended up off the map and would probably have suffered worse if I'd paid more attention to that map corner...  thinking I shouldn't fly PvP that tired anymore.

Anyway, I agree with all this in the spirit of the rule.  But, I've faced 1v3/1v2 odds a ~lot~ in past servers, and while I understand turning right around and running the red is pretty cheesy, more often than not I'd at least engage the enemy and make them run me off doing whatever damage I could, usually in a line cruiser a little too slow or underpowered to really deal with the speed 31 overrun tactics that are usually used in that situation.  And naturally this means I've lost ships occasionally doing this, but usually I do get away.

As a footnote, I clearly remember a couple servers ago taking on a DN and two CA class cruisers in a F-CF, although they chased me off it wasn't before I cracked shields and scored internals on all three of them, considerably more difficult than the 3 of them concentrating and getting any of my shields down I'd say.  Yeah, it was a CF <enter muffled sounds of chees-io here> but think about how hard it is to smash a shield w fast cruiser armament while avoiding a DN (!!) and two other equally or better armed CAs... I don't think I wasted their time, but I definitely delayed them.

[FPF-DieHard]

Do unto others as you would have done to you.   That's my offical rule regarding Starcastling, Shuttle dropping, border-hugging, and all other "grey areas."

[Dizzy]

I apologize to those who overheard me blowing my top last night and dropping choice words in Springer and Teamspeak.

cAN YOU APOLOGIZE TO ME TOO FOR ? FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN U STINK MB? oops caps.

[Kruk]

I find it hard to kill an enemy when Starcastling in the Dynaverse. If you have an advantage and damage your opponent good, he will usualy disengaged once the spare parts are low. With the low speed your going when starcastling, usualy you don't have time to catch him. Unless you castle only at the beggining and get out of the closet after the first set of OL hit.

On GZ or SL, disengagement was useless as it resulted in a loss anyways.

[KBFKaz]

Seems to be alot of " I did this for 8mins" or "I did that for 8 mins..."

So why don't we say that you can only run the border for a max of 8 mins unless actively engaging the enemy
or preforming repairs (does not include the regeneration of shields, you get 8 mins of running for that).

After the 8 mins has expired, the player must leave or actively engage the enemy. Firing 1 phaser is not ACTIVELY engaging.

If all you have is 1 phaser, then it is quite obvious the odds are not in your favor to win and you should disengage with honor.
If you feel you can win, then by all means stay. There has to be a measure of the honor system here and i do agree with T00l
about the age old disengagement rule. Lets make it fun for everybody.

Oh and btw Gunz, if i had a dime for everytime I worked all day on hexes only to come back the next and see all my work undone, I'd be a millionare. That has very little to do with delaying tactics and more to do with numbers. Something the Coalition is usually in short supply of.

[Slider]

I disagree, Run n Gun even in the face of bad odds is a good tactic if it has or acheives a specific purpose. ie damaging the enemy, delaying the enemy from hex flipping activities, setting up a force to be ambushed by another force, and last making a crew of 2 or 3 earn the 1000 points they are about to otherwise earn in under 2 min.

One of the smartest things i saw on my first Dyna was how smaller ship pilots drafted larger ships to scout and delay other pilots.

As for just phaser fire, not every race has awesome backward fire capabilities. Ive seen some great pilots run and plasma back or drone back chasing a stronger force off. Last night Warp10 and Hhoh Droned back and drove my cheese off...it can be done it just takes......effort.

Then again what can I expect people who call the I-ccy cheese while flying dreadnaughts with swarms of fighters calling themselves pilots(dig). Gee so much skill to hit that fighter launch hotkey(dig-2). The truth is everyone on this server will fly whatever they think will give them an advantage over most if not all pilots. However they hate being showed up.

No ones time is more valuable than anyone elses, nothing stops your force of 3 from flying off the map in the interest of time except your own ego.....

Ive chased off several dreads while in a heavy cruiser and other pilots have killed larger ships (dizzy, firetroll), by your reasoning, I should be leaving the hex because they are bigger and more powerful.

Running the border is not a cheat or exploit its the only way anyone and everyone can get off the map. Playing the way you suggest every D5 should fly off when its cased by a larger ship.....news flash, they dont, they hang around and engage near the border until their forces arive and yes they bug out when it does.

If I had a nickel for every guy that has run off the border to avoid being killed by me Id be typing this from a ship in the Carribean...

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Then again what can I expect people who call the I-ccy  cheese while flying dreadnaughts with swarms of fighters calling themselves pilots. Gee so much skill to hit that fighter launch hotkey.

You know I have enjoyed winging with you when we've had the chance , but I guess I'm as thin skinned as you. Your above statement is a direct shot at me from last night, but you have twisted the facts to suit your self.  I called your ccy cheese when you were challenging available coalition members, who weren't in mission and largely flying light cruisers with a sprinkle of heavy cruisers thrown in, that's when.  It was an hour or more later, when at Ducks urging, I bought the ID. I did not go head hunting with it. We didn't expect to see you when we met up awhile after I had purchased it and I stayed through 3 re-draft attempts after the first one failed to give you the fight you so much wanted, rather than log off and get some much needed, yet insufficient sleep. I wanted to be honorable, I gave you your match. You wanted to fight my DN so much that when Draco got drafted in his bigger ship by you instead of Ramagar, you wanted to fight it out with that. I guess you smelled victory over me the hydran noob pilot.  As for skill launching fighters, there's more skill to it than coming into range 15 and landing all your PPDs through a 1-shift and peeling off. 

Don't whine while ignoring the actual facts. Someone might mistake you for a politician. You knew what you were up against, you knew what you were doing.  You didn't think it was a mismatch or you wouldn't have been so desparate to see this battle happen. I find your warped statement to be a disappointment.

[Slider]

LOL, Deep breath.....ummmmmmmmmmmmm, JOKE! Yea thats why I typed (dig and dig-2), and no it wasnt meant to insult you (just Hydrans who are killiing me in general in fact ive seen nothing but IDs coming at me for the past 5 days in PvPs including my battle that started this whole post (by the way DH my alleged team mate nearly killed me), so dont flatter yourself by thinking my post is directed at you(dig3). 

Its all fair bro and I really have no problem with ship selections, I know its there I know it can kill me. Ive been killed by IDs 2x now once with the assist of a Rock once and Rocks dont read forums so I thought I'd pick on you fighter scum. The fact that I lost 2x now to IDs makes me want to kill them even more....silly me.

Reason why I fought you guys even though you drafted bigger is because I try to fight period, im not looking for an advantage if I lose I get mad at myself and go sulk in the bathroom under the shower turning the lights off and on with the clapper.

But if really think this is about you I'll take it off. (Stinking fighter Jock) (Damn I called you a prick last night and didnt get a rise out of you.)

Please forgive me Dax i cant keep flying if you dont       oh and give me back my Karma Fighter scum you know how hard it is to get to 11!!

Love

your Cheese flying, non-sportsman, cheap border runing jerk  and now thin skined Slider_____ 

(im not...really)

Oh and Shadowload your a blackhole surfing runner, turn and fight dog take your drone enema like man.

[FPF-DieHard]

That has very little to do with delaying tactics and more to do with numbers. Something the Coalition is usually in short supply of.

94 % as many Coalition misiosn shave been flown in the first 2 rounds of the server.   Hmm . . .. .

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

LOL, Deep breath.....ummmmmmmmmmmmm, JOKE! Yea thats why I typed (dig and dig-2), and no it wasnt meant to insult you (just Hydrans who are killiing me in general in fact ive seen nothing but IDs coming at me for the past 5 days in PvPs including my battle that started this whole post (by the way DH my alleged team mate nearly killed me), so dont flatter yourself by thinking my post is directed at you(dig3). 

Its all fair bro and I really have no problem with ship selections, I know its there I know it can kill me. Ive been killed by IDs 2x now once with the assist of a Rock once and Rocks dont read forums so I thought I'd pick on you fighter scum. The fact that I lost 2x now to IDs makes me want to kill them even more....silly me.

Reason why I fought you guys even though you drafted bigger is because I try to fight period, im not looking for an advantage if I lose I get mad at myself and go sulk in the bathroom under the shower turning the lights off and on with the clapper.

But if really think this is about you I'll take it off. (Stinking fighter Jock) (Damn I called you a prick last night and didnt get a rise out of you.)

Please forgive me Dax i cant keep flying if you dont       oh and give me back my Karma Fighter scum you know how hard it is to get to 11!!

Love

your Cheese flying, non-sportsman, cheap border runing jerk  and now thin skined Slider_____ 

(im not...really)

Oh and Shadowload your a blackhole surfing runner, turn and fight dog take your drone enema like man.

Sit down bud, this will getcha.  I have not docked you karma and how you first made it to that high is in part due to me. I gave you more the other day when this thread first started and have made past contributions.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

I see it as a delaying tactic, but really.. the kitties DO have the numbers.. no one NEEDS to be doing delaying tactics... here is why:
A) IT IS BORING to just sit there making minor course corrections firing the occasional hellborne while flying around at speed 31. Not my idea of PvP
B) As t00l said, ITS A GAME!! Not the actual military
C) Kitties really do have the numbers overall... so what if the coalition took back that planet cause there weren't any PvP delaying tactics??? I'm sure there would not have been any trouble retaking that, and actually planets CHANGING constantly makes the game MORE fun(more PvP and more hex flipping).. much better then flying at speed 31, taking a sip of drink, then adjusting your course slightly to avoid crossing the border watching out for the ever so often drones, or some T-bombing.
D) Generates less controversy like this...

If your in a ship you know cant win against a certain ship or a group of ships, then just 180HET and leave at speed 31 is the best thing to do in my opinion. Or fly in a straight line to exchange some phaser fire while heading to the border on the other side of the map. The maps are large enough where if you did wish to ambush them you'd more then likely still be waiting to cross the border by the time your group was ready to come in and ambush them.
I do understand flying to the border while repairing.. that part I am OK with, and don't consider a waste of time.

[Slider]

LOL, Deep breath.....ummmmmmmmmmmmm, JOKE! Yea thats why I typed (dig and dig-2), and no it wasnt meant to insult you (just Hydrans who are killiing me in general in fact ive seen nothing but IDs coming at me for the past 5 days in PvPs including my battle that started this whole post (by the way DH my alleged team mate nearly killed me), so dont flatter yourself by thinking my post is directed at you(dig3). 

Its all fair bro and I really have no problem with ship selections, I know its there I know it can kill me. Ive been killed by IDs 2x now once with the assist of a Rock once and Rocks dont read forums so I thought I'd pick on you fighter scum. The fact that I lost 2x now to IDs makes me want to kill them even more....silly me.

Reason why I fought you guys even though you drafted bigger is because I try to fight period, im not looking for an advantage if I lose I get mad at myself and go sulk in the bathroom under the shower turning the lights off and on with the clapper.

But if really think this is about you I'll take it off. (Stinking fighter Jock) (Damn I called you a prick last night and didnt get a rise out of you.)

Please forgive me Dax i cant keep flying if you dont       oh and give me back my Karma Fighter scum you know how hard it is to get to 11!!

Love

your Cheese flying, non-sportsman, cheap border runing jerk  and now thin skined Slider_____ 

(im not...really)

Oh and Shadowload your a blackhole surfing runner, turn and fight dog take your drone enema like man.

Sit down bud, this will getcha.  I have not docked you karma and how you first made it to that high is in part due to me. I gave you more the other day when this thread first started and have made past contributions.

See I love you man!

Can we hug now?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Um.....no.

[Slider]

I see it as a delaying tactic, but really.. the kitties DO have the numbers.. no one NEEDS to be doing delaying tactics... here is why:
A) IT IS BORING to just sit there making minor course corrections firing the occasional hellborne while flying around at speed 31. Not my idea of PvP
B) As t00l said, ITS A GAME!! Not the actual military
C) Kitties really do have the numbers overall... so what if the coalition took back that planet cause there weren't any PvP delaying tactics??? I'm sure there would not have been any trouble retaking that, and actually planets CHANGING constantly makes the game MORE fun(more PvP and more hex flipping).. much better then flying at speed 31, taking a sip of drink, then adjusting your course slightly to avoid crossing the border watching out for the ever so often drones, or some T-bombing.
D) Generates less controversy like this...

If your in a ship you know cant win against a certain ship or a group of ships, then just 180HET and leave at speed 31 is the best thing to do in my opinion. Or fly in a straight line to exchange some phaser fire while heading to the border on the other side of the map. The maps are large enough where if you did wish to ambush them you'd more then likely still be waiting to cross the border by the time your group was ready to come in and ambush them.
I do understand flying to the border while repairing.. that part I am OK with, and don't consider a waste of time.

A. Its the most intense 5 min to 1 hour fighting off 3 ships. Your chances of winning is slim but you can give your opponent a bloody nose and let them know they were in a fight.  And if you win OMG you will be branded a cheater like no other....(your friends of course will call you an Ace until you run into a Rock then call you a n00b again) Flying a C7 in a 1 hour battle i defeated 2 Fed NCDS and 1 BCF and let me tell you my heart was pounding the whole time and winning made my year. (As opposed to running into a rock while trying to fight Dax's fighters)

B. This IS a Military game... its not the Price is Right or American Idol Home Edition if you cant see then I cant help you. In fact your side just pulled off a brilliant Military move of supply line sabotage I've witnessed in this game. But if all you can do it parrot what t00l said then maybe he should 'splain it to you.

C. Yes I think the concensus is that this is a great Dyna. As to your latter comments see A.

D.Controversy.......hmmm America was built on great debate not silent acquiescence. The crux of this is that you want me to fly off when you have the option to fly off as well. I see no problem and I will not fly my ship as my enemy (that's you) wants me too. IE Though shalt not face 3 Hydran cruisers and 80 fighters with one CB. Run like mad attack them and when it seems like your going to die, steal victory from the jaws of death escaping to fight another day!!!!

Again if YOU dont like that YOU can run off the map yourself or better yet lower your shileds after all this isnt a Military game and let me shoot you.

The real funny part is the Server Admin ruled on this and your still in here posting....I wonder...

How many times other than my little escapade has someone run the border.....both sides...I know Ram did it and I did...but who else? Is this really about a "practice" or is it more about winning the arguement and backing your buddy.

I have this new theory as to why Shadowload flew around that black hole so many times last night. Big Black Hole with specs around it that could be delusioned into regrowing hair folicals. MY god if I didnt know better Id swear he was Rimming the Hole......YUCK!

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Never said it wasnt a military game.. I said it wasnt the actual real life military.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

That has very little to do with delaying tactics and more to do with numbers. Something the Coalition is usually in short supply of.

94 % as many Coalition misiosn shave been flown in the first 2 rounds of the server.   Hmm . . .. .

And this doesn't necessarily reflect the number of man hours on the server.  You can have more numbers and still run less missions.  I'd wager that the Coalition has more man hours on the server than the Kitties.  The Kitties had the DF in early and that gave them a mission advantage which has been getting smaller according to the statistics as that advantage has largely disappeared. The coalition has cut the margin now to 6% overall from 10% in round 1. Fact is it is damn close, perhaps the closest ever.

[Slider]

Never said it wasnt a military game.. I said it wasnt the actual real life military.

"You shouldn't run the border in engaged fire because its not real military life."

Capt. if I may call you that; I can't reply to this without completely hurting your feelings.

[Centurus]

Slider, HQ, put it to rest.  While I know I'm the last person to chime in, this is getting ridiculous, and the game's integrity is being hurt big time by this continuing.

I know I can't really do much to get you to put it to rest Slider, I do expect HQ to put it to rest. 

If I have to, I'll drag an admin to close this thread.  All this bickering and such is personally making me sick of this game.

Everyone says that we're all adults and we can handle a little hackling.  If we're also adults, we can also conduct ourselves as such, insanity and sillyness aside.  This has gone far beyond hackling.

No more.

[Slider]

but but but im having fun!!

ok since you asked so nicely I'll stop..

bye bye thread it was fun while it lasted.

[Slider]

oh and to the coward that keeps lowering my Karma daily ....%*&^& You

[FPF-DieHard]

As a veteran Flame-warrior, the admin of the server, and the guy who's time was allegedly waisted, I have to say that this debate has not been overy-hostile and has brought up some decent philosophical points.

Those who don't know Slider yet needs to know he's a smart ass, he not a jerk.  Keep that context in your mind when reading his posts.

[Centurus]

As a veteran Flame-warrior, the admin of the server, and the guy who's time was allegedly waisted, I have to say that this debate has not been overy-hostile and has brought up some decent philosophical points.

Those who don't know Slider yet needs to know he's a smart ass, he not a jerk.  Keep that context in your mind when reading his posts.

I do, but still, there comes a point where a line must be drawn. 

[Slider]

Yes a line must be drawn. It should be red. The red line should be red and in the shape of a square. and we should run along that square.....

lol

Stop reading damn you im running out of funny things to say.

God &^*( it someone hit my -Karma again...B!tch!!!! If i find out who your are im going to.....(Thread fades to Black)

[762_XC]

oh and to the coward that keeps lowering my Karma daily ....%*&^& You

What makes you think it's one person?

[Slider]

point taken....   

Well you cant be everyones buddy....how about we shake and bury the hatchet......    (Hides Axe behind back)