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Offline Kevlar

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asking for advise
« on: April 28, 2009, 04:53:10 am »
title says all....

I have rebuild almost completly a know model (That I loved)... I would say it was kitbash but... thing got "out of hand" to the point it passed from ~4 k polys to +20k...  any way.. I have 2 potential almost finished "products"

V1


and


V2 that has the front pod and overall super structure of v1 but with new wing and nacelle arrangements



was planning on setting with v1 but cleeve told me I could of work in the wings and nacelles... so i went back to the drawing board... I admit I suck at texturing ... so much that on v2 1 I kind of used the "stock" BC vor'cha textures (with some modifications) to speed the process of comparing both.... but don't know....


IMHO they both are pretty decent upgrades for the vor'cha models around - cleeve's original was, for me, the best vor'cha aside the one from Lint ( but that is a +150k poly  BC model  that can be  a game stopper when combined with  multiple objects on the screen) .

V2 has two handicaps,
1) being rendered on my laptop while v1 had the full benefit of deep explorer shader. so i add 2 shots of v2 (besides, think most people know the general hull layout of clevee's original model)
2) being on sfc3 limit of 22k polies so can't really mess with it much....

Have to say that the time passed around this "exercise" was pretty rewarding since I achieved my true goal : getting acostumed to 3ds , but would really like to give something to the people still playing this game--- so, without further talk,,, what YOU think it is better ...


thanks
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2009, 07:46:56 am »
Well, the first one is definately better - but 20k is just a bit over the normal limit. I tend to keep my models at 15k at the absolute most. What I would do is model out the larger panels, but the little tiny ones I would leave as texture bits. I'm sure there are ways to iron out what you've got down a bit.
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Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline Kevlar

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2009, 08:49:02 am »
you are right tho i really wanted to put both of them on the 20k league . one sits at 20004 and the other at 21811 or 812.  important to note they arent going to be used only in sfc3.

Rendering on the second one  (and the textures also ) was pretty bad... so i was able to push this texture wrapping on the lunch break to give a better image.

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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2009, 12:32:53 pm »
I like the first one better but I think its light maping needs a bit more work. The second one doesn't see enough improvement to justify the extra poly weight. In fact I see no improvement realy.
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Offline Kevlar

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 04:31:51 am »
the #2 is, in geometrical terms, more simetric and ..hmm.. in lack of better words, more complex/detailed, or i guess sharper  when it comes to hull form .  in a 1v1 comparison of stripped hull , about ~1500 more polies were used to shape the form. It is not very noticeable in the scale we used for sfc , but it is more or less noticeable in Bridge commander.

 Sadly #2 needs a full texturing job over it, but I really suck at texturing, while in 3d models have about 4 years of experience, not modeling ships or alike , rather reconstructing historical/archeological artifacts (that can go from a knife blabe to full human size items) in 3d envinronments.
I do admit "overpolying", but , hard to not do it, when normally deal usually with 300 to 600k poly models at work, some times more.
Thing is I *NEVER* had to texture. That is normally a function taken by a second team. Know the basics, but am really bad at it - also think i have really bad artistic sense. Guess i'm just ok at "wiring things"

but I also preffer #1. Probably because of the textures.
thanks.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 08:53:51 am »
Put the two side-by-side with identical lighting setups, then post that render.
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Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline Kevlar

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 10:33:51 am »
Actually going to put the two, either on my website or battleclinic, tomorrow or so, and well.. whoever likes them both, use them.

 Maybe a genious pick them up and retexture both . Or something.

Just have to tweak some things, make break models, harpoint them correctly and make the interface images for SFC3. BC version will take more time since does require a bit of more file writting. SFC3 is sitll one of the most moddable games ever.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 11:08:09 am »
You could also use another texture set getting the makers permission of course for version 2. Slightly recoloring Lints set for his Vorcha comes to mind. That way you have the more detailed texture you feel you need and working on them will give you some more practice on making a new set without all of the headach of making a scratch set without the need skill.
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Offline Kevlar

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 11:55:45 am »
 if i recall well, lint doesnt have any textures in the sense of textures. thiink (remembering from head so might be totally wrong) lhe just applied "material"/index color and every single detail is heavly modelled, Probably the reason why his ships are like close to 100000 polys or more, and think none can be used in sfc3 (they can in OP, but it does slow the game).
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 10:26:24 am »
http://www.battleclinic.com/docks/files/dist/index.php/file,1a0a4d8e08ddd52bf69eac1b06e6fd98.rar

Heres the link the textures would need to be convereted to BMPs and greened up a bit.
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Offline Kevlar

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2009, 11:00:21 am »
ah i see your point now. was already doing something similar.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2009, 01:00:38 am »
looking forward too it
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Offline Kevlar

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2009, 01:53:04 am »
so do i. actually i'm getting a LITTLE better at texturing. just a little

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Offline Kevlar

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2009, 08:07:45 am »
this is actually harder than i expected. guess i'll go enjoy labour day and the spring.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2009, 10:12:10 am »
Texturing takes a lot of practice. I've been doing it for years, and I feel like I'm just starting to get a good technique down.
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Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline Kevlar

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2009, 11:15:51 am »
well, guess you guys are the real artists. to model one needs ...hmmm... tridimensional awareness. Some people have it, or achieve it, some don't, but for texturing... hmmm... hard to say, requires something I don't have really, a creative aesthetic impulse of some sort; and that has always elude me over the years. 
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: asking for advise
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2009, 11:22:41 am »
Ehh - I don't know if thats entirely true. I think both modelling and texturing need gross understandings of what you mentioned. When modelling the basic shapes a 3D awareness is important, to be sure, but once you get down to detail I think its less important. Its the same with texturing, I think. When you plan your textures, then yeah, aesthetics, color theory, and general feel become helpful - but when its detail time? not so much.

In either case, when you get down to detail, I think whats far more important is just knowing how the human eye/brain sees detail. Its all about knowing how to put things that catch your eye - sort of like balancing the weight of an object: you don't want so much detail here, and no detail there, unless its suits the feel of what you're going for. I present you with this: http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/primary_secondary_and_tertiary_shapes/primary_secondary_and_tertiary_shapes.htm It was very helpful in my earlier years, and is still a good thing to remind myself of what detail is for.
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Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."
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