Topic: Noob Kitbashing! I suck :) (Read 17029 times)

Star Dragon · « **on:** June 11, 2007, 07:02:37 am »

Hey all,

Am really nervous about posting this but hey gotta get your feet wet sometime.
I had tried my hand at 3d and discovered I have no talent in that area (seriously!) however that has not diminished my love of 3d works and the people who make them so here are two things my twisted mind (as applies to normal people, ATOLM is not normal and is completely twisted

) has come up with that hopefully wont offend the creators (who I am awaiting permissions from)

First, Yamato by Antivyrus. I have been wanting this ship for over 10 years. Once I got it and tinkered with it I discovered while the drive section was excellent, the saucer section seemed a tad lesser in detail than I needed so I remembered an old Rick Knox model called the Overload and with a little noob magic of deleting faces and puttign one part over another VIOLA!

Reimagined Yamato (By Antivyrus and Rick Knox)... Please note these and all future postings are for my personal use only unless I get permissions to release or re-release as the case may be from alterations to the originals.

I'm in love all over again. Need an expert though to clean her up undeneath the neck (the joined area). Note this ship goes bye bye for 100 years and sec31 get ahold of it and a version for them is in the works! [Evil Grin]

At like 2 am on Saturday I had be staring at the Valkyrie yet again (as it tasks me!) that smiley allowed me conversion of. I wanted a varient to up fighter count and playability.

Scrolling through random stuff I noticed a set of nacels that grabbed me. They happened to be the USS Integra's. (Knox was original modeler/Thunderchild kitbashed? So I dont know the status of the nacels I'd like to use. If worse comes to worse I'll try stock prometheus. Like I said this was on a whim).

Does anyone know how to contact Thunderchild? There are no emails in the read me, but I know Knox has credit policy.

I deleted the outside faced of the Valk's wings and mounted a set of nacels to the body. Very messy, this one crashed I only have the 3dexploration pic. This is by no means the final look if the Integra's creator minds, I would be looking for something similar (as they look sleek and something you'd see on a racer/light craft). Although they would be big normally there is a plot reason for that.

Tentative name: S.I.F [Stealth Interceptor Fighter] a VERY light fighter keyed on cloak and speed.
[plot line Ideally set for post nemesis timeline]

C&C Welcome, Flames fine, just let me get in asbestoes suit first

Starforce2 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2007, 05:03:40 pm »

the fighter aint bad.

Star Dragon · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2007, 05:41:32 pm »

Thanks!

It was just the base idea. I'm sure later on I can think of better looking varients of the nacel concept (up down, tri, quad, diff hulls).
I just needed to get pointed in the right direction.

Mackie · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2007, 05:51:56 pm »

not bad at all :>

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2007, 06:26:38 pm »

Nice!

Keep those ships coming...

KF

GotAFarmYet? · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2007, 10:28:30 pm »

The fighter actually looks good for a design some texture work and you will have a really fine Kitbash.
The ship is to dark to really tell what is going one with it

Star Dragon · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2007, 07:42:09 am »

Yeah, I tend to like shots from the nightside as beauty shots. I was more concerned on what kind of glows/detail shows up as you approach out of general light areas.

KF wants me to do some non-feds, lol. I'll see what I can do.

I think I had another fighter concept/bash a while ago.

Sandman3D · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2007, 12:30:15 pm »

!st, change your heading...you do not suck!!

Those are really very good...I might just have to steal the fighter design and build one from scratch, lol.

Although, to me it looks more like a heavy bomber...throw a few torp launchers on her, add some ablative armor, and you have a very good Starbase assault vehicle.

Nicely done!!

Star Dragon · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2007, 07:47:01 pm »

Actually I can't get this idea out of my head of a 4 nacel version, with a certain fs2 fighter body, and a phase lance bolted underneath! (For heavy assault)

I want to call it a Claymore, but since that's the name of a cap ship I think, is Flamberge free(?)

A Scimitar Varient called the Khopesh and Katar fighters are also rattling in my head (to keep a Persian.Reman theme)...

To me fighters are "Force Multipliers". In Trek it's not about the coolness of 1-1 dogfighting, it's about bringing unexpected forces to bear on the enemy so they can be forced into a tactically vulnerable position. Or taking advantage of such an occurrence when/if it happens. That and escort or defense/screening duties (be they cap ships or installations/planets).

GotAFarmYet? · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2007, 10:54:20 pm »

Quote from: Star Dragon on June 12, 2007, 07:42:09 am

Yeah, I tend to like shots from the nightside as beauty shots. I was more concerned on what kind of glows/detail shows up as you approach out of general light areas.

Well fine for renders or to show off a ship, it doesn'r help if you want feed back onn what to improve on. The warp fighter shows up nice and clear and exsept for redoing textures, it all looks good. The ship yhas many different ones bashed together and will probably need the most screen shots for feed back. It is from those various shots we can tell streching issues, size issues and areas that might need welding from the moving around. Which is why flat no light pics work best if looking for help or errors.

-GAFY?

Antivyrus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2007, 07:25:23 pm »

U by no means suck Star Dragon. They are both nice designs. And as for my permission for use of the Yamato, you have it.

admiral horton · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2007, 01:33:17 am »

i would like to see more of the yamato like ship

Commander Maxillius · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2007, 03:48:00 am »

Everyone likes your fighter, but I can't say I'm too fond of the concept of fighters in general. It *does* look nice though

A couple nitpicks with the Yamato:
1. Let's see her in better light and closer so we can see detail
2. The lower rollbar looks like it hangs right in the way of the deflectors.

Very nice looking ship, keep up the good work.

OlBuzzard · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2007, 08:19:58 am »

I agree.. though I dont build a lot of fighters ( several for the L.A.S.T. Patrol ... but few for SFC...) Yours is a good concept. Off hand I'd say just brush some of the textures a bit. The mesh is fine.

oh .. and just for the record I also agree with the suggestion .. please change the heading on the front door ... you DON'T suck ! ALL of us have room for improvement !

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2007, 11:46:59 am »

Wow.
Definitely no suckage here.
I have tried to tackle the Yamato before - and it didn't really work.
Be proud of what you've done, man.

Bernard Guignard · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2007, 05:32:59 pm »

Great work looking forward to your Release of both models.

Star Dragon · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2007, 08:56:16 am »

Whoops!!!

Have to step on teh brakes there in case there is any misunderstanding.
Nothing I post is mine, I am not a 3d modeler and my skills (if I have any right to use that word) are practically non-existent.

I'm glad and quite surprised from the comments (usually I see words like "Impractical" or "overkill")
I've been distracted by teh very real possibility of a super robot wars mod (I just got C&C the first decade DVD and played Generals Zero hour)... I have the Xenoforce Mod (Macross/Gundam) and it has totally captivated me although it is as low poly as A2, it's freaking FUN!!!

When I have recharged my batteries and fell brave enough I will post more stuff I screwed around with, and hopefully more people will let me as well (insert cheesy hintage)

(yeah, the people here

)

I am very slow in progress of things and I do tend to bounce aroudn from project to project, but eventually I get back to things.
Shortly I will package what I got and let the community sort it out now that I got permissions. You can see teh direction I was going and can do a better job of getting them to the end)

You're right about the Yamato, the lower bar might be inthe way, but I wasn't thinking of RL function, I was going for look and storyline. Hint, the Section 31 version is as you see BUT is charcoal black and has an Abbe Missile pod on a strut just behind the saucer...

MP I need to get a hold of you, a dozen Macross/RT meshes just fell into my lap and if you are interested various Super Robots.....

Note - seeing this thread reminded me I always wanted to do something akin to the KA "Romulan War Eagle". The original mesh is so low poly, but something about it intrigues me... I'm gonna set some time aside next week and pull out Thull's Firehawk again. I may need a different hull but definately a mirrored set of wings are a good start I think.

As for Klingon Fanatic, I honestly can't think of anything Klingon that's like traditional ATM, but I did repost a request to Terradyhne (so cross your fingers)...

Star Dragon · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2007, 09:52:31 am »

Quick reply eh? I couldn't resist so I fired up Truespace and loaded the old Fiehawk.

I merely stripped the turret cubes I made for Fs2 and the extra top middle nacel/strut leaving the wings and 4 nacels then copied it and rotated 180.

my goal will be eventually to strip the side nacels from the lower wing and have the top and bottom parts sharing a single set (the upper oriented ones)

I have to clean up a few misc pieces from the hull stuck to the bottom center wings, also the old neck area might need to be trimmed or retextured in that spot.

People might complain that a total of 7 nacels are too many, but then again what if they only made 2-3 of these? I was thinking that the "War Eagle" was a scrapped TMP experiment before you see the TNG Warbird version. A design carry over is the dual wings and shared wing nacel.

There I got it out of my head now, I just had to do it to move on now... If anyone wants to clean this up I'd appreciate it.
Also C&C welcome. (please be kind

)

Note this is THULL'S Killer/FireHawk model for SFC3 (Feral Yards has been a huge supporter of my efforts), I had only obtained permission to convert it for Freespace2, not to kitbash. If people like my vision of the "War Eagle" I will contact him and see what he says. Hopefully he won't call it an abomination and disown me.

I know he wanders here from time to time...

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #18 on:** July 28, 2007, 10:14:18 am »

Nah, Thu11s is pretty laid back. Awesome Bash - reminds me of that double d7 warbird.

Star Dragon · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2007, 10:21:05 am »

Thanks, one of my main problems is in order to get where I am ATM I had to decomplie it into many subobjects and for some reason even though I have the tool to weld I can never get it to make objects I select back into a single object again. So the more I break stuff apart to modify the more subobjects I end up with and it becomes a huge mess!!!

That's why I stopped at this point, it;s just to overwhelming for me. I'll take a break and coem back later when I can be patient. Plus sometimes my rig freezes or crashes when I try this...

But then again that's nothing compared to how others have lost whole meshes off their drives so I feel very lucky that only happened once to me, so these minor inconveniences are nothing.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #20 on:** July 28, 2007, 11:44:10 am »

+1 Karma.

I LOVE where you are going with this! Please get this released for SFC.

Qapla'

KF

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #21 on:** July 28, 2007, 06:30:48 pm »

Is this what you want StarDragon ?

Starforce2 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 28, 2007, 07:45:30 pm »

yikes! A romulan yamato..lol

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #23 on:** July 28, 2007, 07:53:28 pm »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on July 28, 2007, 06:30:48 pm

Is this what you want StarDragon ?

Well done MP! +1 Karma

I'll take this and put Ganymad/Atrahasis' TMP romulan texture set on her when she's ready.

Qapla!

KF

Starforce2 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 28, 2007, 08:09:03 pm »

Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on July 28, 2007, 07:53:28 pm

Quote from: ModelsPlease on July 28, 2007, 06:30:48 pm
Is this what you want StarDragon ?

Well done MP! +1 Karma

I'll take this and put Ganymad/Atrahasis' TMP romulan texture set on her when she's ready.

Qapla!

KF

Hell yes. Make sure ya put up some huge screenies too...

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #25 on:** July 28, 2007, 08:21:45 pm »

Quote from: Starforce2 on July 28, 2007, 07:45:30 pm

yikes! A romulan yamato..lol

Well then how about a variant like this?

Star Dragon · « **Reply #26 on:** July 28, 2007, 09:43:38 pm »

hahah... You read my mind! Please release both ASAP!

BTW have you been on some substance lately? I noticed you went silent for a bit and then releaed like (what) 12-20 ships?

I'll post your render on KA.com to see their reaction to how their old model inspired me...

Plus I'll be screwing around with WHITE/Green textures. In TOS they were white then in TNG Green.
I've seen some great KA ships/concepts for TMP era in White with Green accents. I had been stuck on the Roumaln "Imperium" for quite some time. If I dump the wings and use these it will be a radical change. I'll have to see how well the hull meshes visually.

Since my mod is a "Simulation" you get to fly a mission that involves the TMP era Preator in an extended way. (think like how the Klingons had Chronos-1)

Hmmm, "A Romulan Yamato..." I like that Description!

Test background (for your consideration)

Concerned that the Federation has fielded a virtual "Flying Fortress" (The Yamato), The Preator orders the navy to produce a ship superior to have in the inventory. Unfortunately they succeeded all too well and this design literally bankrupts the coffers of the Empire rasing the ire of the Senate and thus production was limited to the prototype (MP's Varient) and the production Model (Yamato analog).

No (or limited) support craft, but Faster, and more power to shields and weaponry make this literally a one ship army. I has seen limited action and so far no one who has engaged this vessel has survived to spread it's existance outside the Empire. It was stationed in the Romulus System as lead ship in the Homeguard. It was eventually mothballed as a museum piece when the D'deridex class Warbirds came online.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #27 on:** July 28, 2007, 10:08:33 pm »

Quote from: Star Dragon on July 28, 2007, 09:43:38 pm

hahah... You read my mind! Please release both ASAP!

BTW have you been on some substance lately? I noticed you went silent for a bit and then releaed like (what) 12-20 ships?

I'll post your render on KA.com to see their reaction to how their old model inspired me...

Plus I'll be screwing around with WHITE/Green textures. In TOS they were white then in TNG Green.
I've seen some great KA ships/concepts for TMP era in White with Green accents. I had been stuck on the Roumaln "Imperium" for quite some time. If I dump the wings and use these it will be a radical change. I'll have to see how well the hull meshes visually.

Since my mod is a "Simulation" you get to fly a mission that involves the TMP era Preator in an extended way. (think like how the Klingons had Chronos-1)

Hmmm, "A Romulan Yamato..." I like that Description!

Test background (for your consideration)

Concerned that the Federation has fielded a virtual "Flying Fortress" (The Yamato), The Preator orders the navy to produce a ship superior to have in the inventory. Unfortunately they succeeded all too well and this design literally bankrupts the coffers of the Empire rasing the ire of the Senate and thus production was limited to the prototype (MP's Varient) and the production Model (Yamato analog).

No (or limited) support craft, but Faster, and more power to shields and weaponry make this literally a one ship army. I has seen limited action and so far no one who has engaged this vessel has survived to spread it's existance outside the Empire. It was stationed in the Romulus System as lead ship in the Homeguard. It was eventually mothballed as a museum piece when the D'deridex class Warbirds came online.

This could be also be a D'deridex project proto-type as outlined by Kt' Hyla at KA.Com and his own website at Phoenix Experimental Yards under his history of the Romulan fleet. I see it as the bridge betweebn the TMP Era DC Comics D-7 based warbird and the Melak from ST: New Worlds. IMHO lack of dilithium resources pressures the Rihannsu to develop singularity drives which in turn require larger warship hulls to house those mechanations in...

At any rate, Kt' Hyla's Romulan Mobile Ship Repair dock has been on the okay to convert list but has not been converted for over two years IIRC.

Just my two credits from my corner of the Trek Multiverse.

KF

Starforce2 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 28, 2007, 10:27:30 pm »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on July 28, 2007, 08:21:45 pm

Quote from: Starforce2 on July 28, 2007, 07:45:30 pm
yikes! A romulan yamato..lol

Well then how about a variant like this?

That looks good too. Is there anything else you can place in place of the 4 extra nacelles on the first variant, that would look more like some kind of weapon? 6 nacelles is kinda excessive, or so will no doubt say the flamewar if this is ported to BC

but personaly I like both the 6 and the 2 version.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #29 on:** July 28, 2007, 10:46:50 pm »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on July 28, 2007, 08:21:45 pm

Quote from: Starforce2 on July 28, 2007, 07:45:30 pm
yikes! A romulan yamato..lol

Well then how about a variant like this?

I like this version much better. It actually makes sense to me IMHO.

KF

Star Dragon · « **Reply #30 on:** July 28, 2007, 11:10:08 pm »

Something I haven't touched, well forever...

Just a tweak to Adonis's Stype1 Fighter

A.) original
B.) My tweak (a hair thinner, but not too thin or it would effect the wings) and retextured, I am not done yet I need insignias, squad badges etc...

The back needs to be checked for errors, and I noticed the upper right (engine intake) housing is larger/higher than the others.

Unless the copy I have is an old one (it was the original release I asked him about).

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #31 on:** July 29, 2007, 12:33:19 am »

I'm diggin that tweek of yours.

Quote

BTW have you been on some substance lately? I noticed you went silent for a bit and then releaed like (what) 12-20 ships?

R/L health issues are keeping me limited right now, but as for the ships, heck at this point I figure all in all I musta bashed and worked on 500+ models so bashing is pretty easy for me (depending on the design) and I can usually get them done in an hour or less

. But some stuff is still beyond me.

Now getting back to this Rom beastie.....
The Schimitar was larger and outgunned the Sovie and everything else, and was a prototype IIRC.
The Norexan (Valdore type) was a direct response to the Galaxy, though a match size wise (from what we see on screen) to the Sovereign, no match firepower wise, but perhaps more firepower than a Galaxy?.
The D'deridex is a massive design as we all know (about 900m IIRC) but was on par firepower wise with that of the Galaxy perhaps the Rom answer to the Ambie?
The Melak (560m) was on par size wise with the Ambassador Class yet it took 3 of them to destroy one Ambie "Yesterdays Enterprise" so maybe the Melak was designed to dwarf the Excelsior?

SO if we use this formula to determine this as yet unamed beastie, sizewise I would think slightly larger than an Excelsior but with comperable firepower ? (my version)
Same size, but Yamato equilavent firepower ? (SD's concept)

That would then have it correspond to being much larger to the Constitution and Constellation Class ships. My reason being even though the Gal and Amb are massive ships they were the CA's of their times, so are the Connies and Constell were and the Excel was a BCH in her time.

In a nutshell I see it like this .......
Romulan point of view .......

-We have nothing to match the Connie and or the new D7 (K'Tinga) lets build this (unnamed beastie)
-R&D drawing board circa 2260's Our new ship is in design phase

-Mid 2270's Our Beastie is launched, those Connies won't know what hit them

Oh crap the humans built the Excelsior Class?

...well back to the R&D drawing board........

During this time my variant and then Star Dragons upgrade (since his has more warp nacelles) is the Romulan bad boy

2230's AHA we have our Melak !!!!! Bigger and badder then the human Excelsior
Are you kidding me? The humans built the Ambassador Class

...well back to the R&D drawing board........

-2360's Success we have the D'Deridex !!!! Let's see the humans deal with.......WTF is a Galaxy Class ??????

Several Romulan Ale's later .......back to R&D

-2370's HAHA ya human bastards behold and fear the Norexan (Valdore type)

A new Sovereign Class ??????????????

Back to R&................. Enough ! You Romulans had your chance DIE SCUM and now behold the Reman Warbird

Always one step behind most of the time

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #32 on:** July 29, 2007, 09:32:22 am »

Thoughts?

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #33 on:** July 29, 2007, 10:49:11 am »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on July 29, 2007, 09:32:22 am

Thoughts?

Can I have the new warbird to retxture?

Also, in regards to the Melaks vs the Ent-C there are a lot of details that episode leaves out. On purpose. I prefer to believe that the Ambassador ENT-C was thougher than the standard issue Ambassador. Lets not forget that Picard let Yar go back in Yesterdays Enterprise and I bet she'd made damn sure she modified the ship as best she could given the limits of time and resources available. It wouldn't surprise me to find out she acquired some special surprises from the ENT-D that could be retrofitted to ENT-C with a little TLC...

Now having said that, I prefer to believe that the Melaks were in a very target rich environment a la Centauri Vaughns SFC: OP TNG mission script "Tomorrows Enterprise."

Also three Melaks vs 1 Ambassador makes sense tactically. Its overkill true, but is not 100% indicutive of a ships power. You want to have more targets for the enemy to shoot at so that they won't concentrate fire on one ship (usually) and increase the chances you will defeat your opponant as quickly as possible.

KF

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #34 on:** July 29, 2007, 11:39:24 am »

Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on July 29, 2007, 10:49:11 am

Quote from: ModelsPlease on July 29, 2007, 09:32:22 am
Thoughts?

Can I have the new warbird to retxture?

Also, in regards to the Melaks vs the Ent-C there are a lot of details that episode leaves out. On purpose. I prefer to believe that the Ambassador ENT-C was thougher than the standard issue Ambassador. Lets not forget that Picard let Yar go back in Yesterdays Enterprise and I bet she'd made damn sure she modified the ship as best she could given the limits of time and resources available. It wouldn't surprise me to find out she acquired some special surprises from the ENT-D that could be retrofitted to ENT-C with a little TLC...

Now having said that, I prefer to believe that the Melaks were in a very target rich environment a la Centauri Vaughns SFC: OP TNG mission script "Tomorrows Enterprise."

Also three Melaks vs 1 Ambassador makes sense tactically. Its overkill true, but is not 100% indicutive of a ships power. You want to have more targets for the enemy to shoot at so that they won't concentrate fire on one ship (usually) and increase the chances you will defeat your opponant as quickly as possible.

KF

Tasha Yar's going back with the updated Ent C didn't really make the eventual outcome any different though it was assumed they lasted a bit longer. But prior to the rift the Ambie was hanging in there even though it was on the losing end, and as we all know Roms go big size wize and not firepower wise in a ratio aspect of size to power as clearly seen in TNG.

Starforce2 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 30, 2007, 05:49:18 am »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on July 29, 2007, 09:32:22 am

Thoughts?

Lets not forget what kind of damage the klingons might have done to the attacking 3 vessels before the ent-c arrived. The outpost may have had atleast one or 2 small ships or a destroyer gaurding it as well. Depending on how they each used their cloaking abilities a DD could concievably play cat and mouse with 3 larger ships for quite some time before someone got a lucky shot. If the base cought a melak (or whatever it was) while cloacking or uncloaking serious damage could have been done as well.

Scottish Andy · « **Reply #36 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:55:59 am »

I love MP's 2-nacelle version. Great looking ship!

Unfortunately, I cannot see anything but a "." for StarDragon's pictures, so I can't comment on them.

Sorry.

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #37 on:** July 30, 2007, 11:30:28 am »

Ok so going on this ......
-Larger than the Excel but smaller than the Ambie?
-Firepower CA,BC, or BB ?
-In Service: 2280's or 90's?

Yes agreed F_W the D7 K'lode's sold to the Roms in the mid 2260's IIRC were mere shells,
Hence this concept.....
OUTALANCE SHIPYARDS
C-10 Type
Late TOS/Early TMP Era Romulan Warbird Prototype

Owner: Romulan Star Empire
Class: Heavy Combat Vessel
Availability: Unlimited Deployment
In Service: 2265
Out of Service: 2290

C10 was the Starfleet designation for a class of Romulan Warbird in the late 23rd century.
Refits and upgrades kept the original KR7 an effective combat vessel throughout most of its long service life, but by the mid 2200s the Federation was fielding designs such as the Constitution class which considerably outclassed it.
As a result, the Romulans fielded a modified version of the ship during the 2270s.
This variant shared the same basic hull form with the original vessel, but included various detail changes including the edition of a second primary hull, combined with redesigned nacelles that increased the top speed.
The armament was also boosted dramatically.
Despite the changes, the C10 was still not a match for the Excelsiors.
Several skirmishes occurred with the Federation during the 2280s, generally pitting the C10 against the Excelsior class Starships.
The Federation design was generally the victor in these encounters.

Which I think is a logical upgrade for that era, the above design is the Romulan attempt comperable to a Light BC but only 230m in length.
Based on the hull used, as the KR7 would have been the Rom CA of the mid 2200's (obviously).

Now for my version .....
OUTALANCE SHIPYARDS
Vellius I.R.X. 1900 A-type Warbird
Late TMP Era Romulan Advanced Warbird Prototype

Owner: Romulan Star Empire
Class: Capitol Ship
Availability: Unlimited Deployment
In Service: 2290
Out of Service: 2325

(pic will go here)

This early prototype, became foundation for the D'Deridex-class Warbird B-type.
This vessel class would become known by Starfleet as an A-type warbird.
These vessels are somewhat larger and more massive than Federation Constitution and Excelsior-class starships, measuring approximately 500 meters, and are believed to have a greater combat firepower, although they suffer from a comparatively lower speed capability.

And Star Dragons Version..............
T'seren I.R.C. 1902 A-type Warbird Varient
Late TMP/Early TNG Era Romulan Advanced Warbird

Owner: Romulan Star Empire
Class: Capitol Ship
Availability: Unlimited Deployment
In Service: 2295
Out of Service: 2330

(pic to go here)

------------------------------
Assigned to covertly patrol the Neutral Zone, also known by Starfleet as an A-type warbird.
These vessels are somewhat larger and more massive than Federation Constitution and Excelsior-class starships, measuring approximately 500 meters, and are believed to have a greater combat firepower, although they suffer from a comparatively lower speed capability.

How's this sound?

OlBuzzard · « **Reply #38 on:** July 30, 2007, 11:58:13 am »

Hey MP .....

What ever happened to that Klingon BB I sent ya? Ya want me to fumble through my files and see if we can dig that up again? Perhaps updating it as well we might just come up with a "late" TNG version of a relay bad BB. That is something that has always kinda bugged me any ways.

That said ... if ya think it would be best ... please start up another thread so we dont get this one waaaaaaay off topic.

If I dont see a new thread .. I'll just let it pass.

Thanks

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #39 on:** July 30, 2007, 11:58:59 am »

Star Dragon, I never noticed that engine issue on Adonis's Stype1 Fighter when I did a Mirak/Kzin version, LOL.

http://www.battleclinic.com/docks/files/dist/index.php/file,21694d05d0f621b83ff4d251cc37b411.zip

Hey MP do we have an STA on that Thulls style Warbird?

Qapla'

KF

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #40 on:** July 30, 2007, 12:00:26 pm »

Quote from: OlBuzzard on July 30, 2007, 11:58:13 am

Hey MP .....

What ever happened to that Klingon BB I sent ya? Ya want me to fumble through my files and see if we can dig that up again? Perhaps updating it as well we might just come up with a "late" TNG version of a relay bad BB. That is something that has always kinda bugged me any ways.

That said ... if ya think it would be best ... please start up another thread so we dont get this one waaaaaaay off topic.

If I dont see a new thread .. I'll just let it pass.

Thanks

Pics? Its a good day for non-Federation races I see...

KF

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #41 on:** July 30, 2007, 12:09:52 pm »

Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on July 30, 2007, 12:00:26 pm

Quote from: OlBuzzard on July 30, 2007, 11:58:13 am
Hey MP .....

What ever happened to that Klingon BB I sent ya? Ya want me to fumble through my files and see if we can dig that up again? Perhaps updating it as well we might just come up with a "late" TNG version of a relay bad BB. That is something that has always kinda bugged me any ways.

That said ... if ya think it would be best ... please start up another thread so we dont get this one waaaaaaay off topic.

If I dont see a new thread .. I'll just let it pass.

Thanks

Pics? Its a good day for non-Federation races I see...

KF

I sent it to KF way back when ya sent it to me. If I still have a copy I'll make a new thread. I think it originally got lost along the way somewhere and it really was a great design Buzz.

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #42 on:** July 30, 2007, 12:12:06 pm »

Quote

Hey MP do we have an STA on that Thulls style Warbird?

Just waiting for SD to apprvoe the histories I posted above then I'll release them

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #43 on:** July 30, 2007, 03:32:38 pm »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on July 30, 2007, 12:12:06 pm

Quote
Hey MP do we have an STA on that Thulls style Warbird?

Just waiting for SD to apprvoe the histories I posted above then I'll release them

Okies he approves so here's the d/l link
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163376356.0.html

Star Dragon · « **Reply #44 on:** September 09, 2007, 02:31:32 pm »

Hi guys!

I'm still going through my drive looking at old downloads and trimming some of the "fat" so to speak.

I see this folder called CROWMAG open it and I got a mesh file called 1 and two textures (bg and xbox). I probably named the mesh 1 for .cob conversion for messing with later on so I don't know the original name anymore.

I'm like "do something with this or delete it" (as I did NOT like the mesh as is, but there was something about it that made me keep it for so long, some sort of potential).

So I go "ok", and delete a few sections and resize another and then it strikes me as some sort of Tholian... Stumbling on another texture and rotating it give it a unique look and thus the name is born:

THOLIAN DEVILFISH (Cause you don't know which side is up and it looks like it can see you on both, those eyes!)

The first pic is the T.D.F., the second is the original mesh Crowmag. Can anyone please Identify the author? I need to contact him/her for permission cause I really like this idea and also I would like this to double as a "monster" for the Super Robot Mod I'm working on.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Note this was done on a whim and no offense was intended to the maker or to any Tholians out there! (so no lawsuits PLEASE!)

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #45 on:** September 09, 2007, 04:58:37 pm »

The author of the Crowmag is Skinman.

KF

Star Dragon · « **Reply #46 on:** September 09, 2007, 08:30:32 pm »

Excellent! I had spoken to him earlier particularly about his tholians, but that was after his Ripstar site had gone down.

Does anyone have a mirror of those old files? I remember some of them made me salavate!

Here are the new files, the original textures included if people prefer them.

I hope people find some enjoyment from this (mesh in .cob format though).

Star Dragon · « **Reply #47 on:** September 12, 2007, 06:32:47 pm »

AS most people know I dislike TOS era in general (aside from the tv episodes and the Connie of course), but it always bothered me that we never saw any real fighters used for defensive purposes (like the 3 blurry mars perimeter defense ships the Borg blew away).

So no fighter craft ever existed after WWIII and none were ever constructed until TNG ? I doubt that. Logic dictates until Starfleet had a real significant number of ships some sort of fighter force would have existed in the interim. I was looking at I Mudd's site and got inspired first by his Nacels. I asked for permission to kitbash them for a few diff projects and then it hit me as I deleted the saucer/hull that the whole assembly and pod looked like wings and would look good on a fighter. All I needed was a body.

This is my first concept for a TOS Era fighter (Not shuttle!) I envisioned something for the Earth Romulan War. 1-2 crew, and this body is the Davinci Shuttle (and is temp). I still need to contact MARKYD for permission, but I wanted to post it now to see what people thought.

I also wanted to try to find a later era more modern looking body that still might match the nacel assembly. That's it for this until the weekend.

This is just an idea (concept) and NOT the final look: Please ignore existing text. Also I tried to match shade of textures for comparison.

TOS Early Fighter.

Thoughts?

Panzergranate · « **Reply #48 on:** September 12, 2007, 07:27:28 pm »

Errrr, there are a hell of a lot of TOS, pre-TOS and pre-Fed fighters.... Lemme see now.... Rich Steinbeck's Gallant and Normandie Class fighters from the Romulan War period.

What else.... SFB TOS period F4, F8, F14, F15, F16, F18, F111, A20....

The thing is that manned fighters are pretty obstelete when robot fighters can do a far more effective job. There is some obligation to recover manned fighters. Robots are expendable and don't chicken out.

By the time of the fictional WW3, all the fighter aircraft involved were unmanned, as the human factor was limiting combat maneuverabilty, adding is extra life support system and just a waste of space.

This is the lines fighter aircraft design is going now and the VF22 may be the last manned fighter aircraft produced. The next generation will not be handicapped by human pilots and their physiology.

The thing is that fighters are just so limited against starships, even freighters. They require complex arrangements, risk valuable personnel and require large numbers to have any combat effect. They are also easy to destroy if the enemy is using a Point Defence Ship (FlaK Ship).

In TNG, the only fighter shown is the Bajoran light fighter in DS9.

Voyager uses a fighter shuttle.

Myself, I prefer TOS and TMP period ships. I'm not into the bland jelly mould shapes of the TNG era.

Star Dragon · « **Reply #49 on:** September 13, 2007, 07:30:54 am »

All good points...

Your comments are appreciated.

Now what I should have done was narrow my comment (Thoughts?) to the kitbash itself. The info I wanted was if I was getting close to what would be passable for the era... I've already posted my view on fighters in a related thread.

I've seen one or two of the ones you mentioned, but it always struck me as if they look like something out of the Jetsons. I was thinking why not update the design range by remembering what they had in 64/65 when Trek started but add "federation features"? In a way it would be a retcon, but a logical one. People design things off of what they know. Look at the evolution of sailing to Navy vessels, even the most radical branch can trace back it's roots to the rowboat/raft.

I'd have to do some research, but I am sure there are still some nice looking hulls from the 50's-60's that could prove inspiring. While I like the idea, this was just a quick feeler.

Panzergranate · « **Reply #50 on:** September 13, 2007, 08:46:51 am »

The Mars defence craft were a lot bigger than fighters.... more likely PFs or PT Boats. They were pretty useless as well.

Actually, come to think of it, how come nobody has created a model of a PT Boat??

It would be useful for system defence and various roles.

Even in SFB and FASA, there seems to be huge gaps in naval vessel to fill roles. Some naval classes don't even seem to exist.

Fighters just don't have the firepower to penetrate warship shields in the TNG era. In fact freighters in TNG probally have better shields than a Daedalus Class cruiser or even a TOS period frigate.

Fighters are limited in the weapons systems and the power that they have to power them. The Fast Patrol Ship (PF) idea is just one solution to the growing ineffectiveness of fighter armament against target vessels.

It would be nice to have the F1 Gallant and F2 Normandie Class fighters as models in game and some of the early SFB TOS fighters as well.

Adonis · « **Reply #51 on:** September 14, 2007, 07:22:17 am »

Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on July 30, 2007, 11:58:59 am

Star Dragon, I never noticed that engine issue on Adonis's Stype1 Fighter when I did a Mirak/Kzin version, LOL.

http://www.battleclinic.com/docks/files/dist/index.php/file,21694d05d0f621b83ff4d251cc37b411.zip

Hey MP do we have an STA on that Thulls style Warbird?

Qapla'

KF

I'm aware of that issue for quite some time, the reason was that I didn't map nor texture that one, that was done by MRJOHN. That model is from my early days.

Star Dragon · « **Reply #52 on:** September 14, 2007, 07:49:09 am »

He he you posted to say that? And here I got all excited that you might have a comment about the kitbash idea.

I'll say this, I'm never showing you guys my first and only model I ever did. I'd be laughed off the site!

Adonis · « **Reply #53 on:** September 14, 2007, 12:54:25 pm »

Quote from: Star Dragon on September 14, 2007, 07:49:09 am

He he you posted to say that? And here I got all excited that you might have a comment about the kitbash idea.
I'll say this, I'm never showing you guys my first and only model I ever did. I'd be laughed off the site!

Ahem...to revise it to a language all understand

: It needs a redo lol

Star Dragon · « **Reply #54 on:** December 22, 2007, 04:22:59 pm »

Originally a vf-22s Jetpack from Macross II, Kt'Hyla made a cruiser out of it. I had to knock off about 30 textures for my usage and some minor alterations to the remaining ones, but now here is one of three variants.

This one is a JDF (Joint Defence Force) Fighter concept 1.
Actually it's more of a Gunboat.
Klingons and Romulans are free to have their own color schemes.

2 underside torp launchers, 7 phaser mounts, 2 medium disruptors.
Crew: 3 (1 Pilot, 1 Co Pilot-Gunner, 1 Engineer
Extra Capacity: 6 loaded Marines Normally, 12 light Max.

It has no official name yet for it. (original was called the Reflex)

Larger versions of the nacel shown will be on Klingon vessel I am imagining.

The various white dots blink and the nacel glows of course.

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #55 on:** December 22, 2007, 05:12:28 pm »

The Klinks have:

Z1 Assault Shuttle
Z2 Light Shuttle
k'toch class 1 man scout
Toron class shuttle
W-2 Koreba
W-4 Speedstar

To name a few

Starforce2 · « **Reply #56 on:** December 22, 2007, 11:39:01 pm »

Quote from: Star Dragon on September 12, 2007, 06:32:47 pm

AS most people know I dislike TOS era in general (aside from the tv episodes and the Connie of course), but it always bothered me that we never saw any real fighters used for defensive purposes (like the 3 blurry mars perimeter defense ships the Borg blew away).

So no fighter craft ever existed after WWIII and none were ever constructed until TNG ? I doubt that. Logic dictates until Starfleet had a real significant number of ships some sort of fighter force would have existed in the interim. I was looking at I Mudd's site and got inspired first by his Nacels. I asked for permission to kitbash them for a few diff projects and then it hit me as I deleted the saucer/hull that the whole assembly and pod looked like wings and would look good on a fighter. All I needed was a body.

This is my first concept for a TOS Era fighter (Not shuttle!) I envisioned something for the Earth Romulan War. 1-2 crew, and this body is the Davinci Shuttle (and is temp). I still need to contact MARKYD for permission, but I wanted to post it now to see what people thought.

I also wanted to try to find a later era more modern looking body that still might match the nacel assembly. That's it for this until the weekend.

This is just an idea (concept) and NOT the final look: Please ignore existing text. Also I tried to match shade of textures for comparison.

TOS Early Fighter.

Thoughts?

Now this kicks arse. I may not like the tos as a series as well but certainly the ships have a look that no others since have. You could easily adapt this design for just about any era, but the engines rock.

Star Dragon · « **Reply #57 on:** December 24, 2007, 11:06:00 am »

It's way early for em to even think of this but I got inspired by Ky'Hyla.

From the first moment I saw the ship I posted previously I knew I had to try a diff type of
VoDleh - Heavy battle Cruiser (Emperor Class)

Here's the initial thought, 4 of the new JDF nacels and two Enhances Phase Lances (that run the length of the ship)

I was thinking some elements from Kreeargh's and Fallen Warrior's Dark Empire ships for the main wings, body and neck bridge.

I know this had been re-done by Wicked Zombie & Zambie Zan, but I wanted something post Nemesis that harkened back to an earlier age.

Long like the NKE (Neo Klingon Empire)!!!
-Please be kind...

Star Dragon · « **Reply #58 on:** December 24, 2007, 01:31:54 pm »

Some time later...

Bout 75% satisfied.

I used the wrong parts so it came out untextured, but this was just a run through to see it was coming together in a way I could imagine. Of course later on the textures would be changed so all the elements matched better.

What do you guys think? I plan to add a few more guns/torp tubes.

When I am ready fro next step can someone tweek out the mesh errors I made from kitbashing? (MP?)
No rush on this though.

Really Rough assemblage:

Starforce2 · « **Reply #59 on:** December 24, 2007, 02:54:55 pm »

this one's not doing it for me. I think if this was to be a future era ship you'd need a head on it that atleast looks more neghvar-ish.

Starforce2 · « **Reply #60 on:** January 02, 2008, 09:56:43 pm »

Bump for any release news?

Starforce2 · « **Reply #61 on:** January 09, 2008, 09:49:24 pm »

bump #2

Star Dragon · « **Reply #62 on:** January 14, 2008, 12:32:01 pm »

AH my bad (sorry UW)!

Abandoned for now (I messed up initially and the attacked parts I positioned and modified were the non uv'ed ones. I was going to go back an do it over but then it would still need to have errors removed from the crude bashing.

ATM I'm trying to get motivated enough to squeeze out another fic chapter in the next 2 months. $:-\$

Panzergranate · « **Reply #63 on:** January 16, 2008, 01:42:23 pm »

The first rule of CAD and ECAD.... always make a backup of the previous version SEPERATELY so that if a detail screws up, you can go back to it.

You may also come to a point where you decide that possibilities are realised for another model based on where you are at that point. Real navies make the most out of all the possibilities that a hull design can offer after all.

Keep trying as practice makes perfect.

Star Dragon · « **Reply #64 on:** September 20, 2008, 04:19:21 am »

Heh, I'll keep trying. Thanks for the encouragement.
I'll come back to that at some future point cause it was a case of biting off something more than can chew.

Now for something a bit more simple. Retexturing one of the DE ships. I just started to tinker with it and wanted to see what Unknown Warrior thought? And if approved tinker some more.

The designs of the DE mod ships are really interesting (sorta hits me what if the Rommies and Cylons got together lol).
Anyway I was thinking not only of a retexture, but a variant also for ROMULAN 12.

My temp name would be PN-Shrike (PN stands for Post Nemesis). My thoughts are a patrol cruiser that acts in 3's or 4's in a picket system. Three of them are model-B's with the extra guns, The fourth retains the external warp engines (all have a smaller internal set ala defiant). The reason for extra warp power of the A model is on threat assesment it either leaves to get help/report if coms are jammed, or if seriously outgunned to get help/retreat. The job of the Model-B's are to buy time. The Model-A will always remain cloaked and well away from knife fight range unless it feels it would turn the tide of battle.

Keep in mind I just started on a whim and everything is subject to change/pendign approval from UW....

I like the bridge windows and head, the wings are temp as are the guns.
I envision the torps are self contained light plasma generators and very fast recharge time (thus a water texture and blue torp port instead of the original purple).

I plan to switch the engine greebles for more stainless steel and shiny type bits. the back tail with a sharper plate and the impulse with a defined red mesh.

Can you feel it? (pls be kind)

Adonis · « **Reply #65 on:** September 20, 2008, 06:49:40 am »

I really like the shape of the head.

SYLAR · « **Reply #66 on:** September 20, 2008, 10:51:51 am »

I like this model it shows progress in your work. as said textures need work. but its a good improvement and you should be happy

Star Dragon · « **Reply #67 on:** September 20, 2008, 09:39:18 pm »

Umm... all good points but I think people are getting confused on who I am and what I do.

Of all things I try (emphasis) modeling is not one of them, I'm just a VOICE ACTOR.
I don't claim other people's work, ever!

The Model is UW's and part of the untextured DE mod packs (Romulan #12). Kreeargh put them up for texturing and I'm just screwing around. I really like the design so I gave it a go not even knowing how to UV map, in essence I CHEAT (I won't tell you how, it sounds pathetic in my own head as it is)

. I wanted to try something with mroe bite so deleted the inner underwing nacels and copied the outer guns and placed them in their stead. (overkill). Maybe the Rom's are trying something out of the Rem's playbook? (and yes, only the Tal Shi'ar would now the truth of the matter, heh).

I always disliked the whole (Slave race secretly makes the most kick arse warship in Alpha Quadrant) storyline, but what are we gonna do, it's canon now... (REBOOT PLS!)

I'm glad to hear mixed comments, but I'm really waiting for UW's say in the matter.
I do think I'll go back and try to tweak the bridge windows more I got an idea, at least I won't make it worse.

This is all in fun and not to be taken seriously as a SFC contender (like my TMP Rommie Dred idea MP helped me with).

I like FW's suggestion: D'Rexia, it sounds cool... That other designation was just me, I just said PN- cause no one has made one up yet (ala TOS- TMP- TNG-, ect) so what do we use for Nem+ era? Nem- ??? Plus I always hated stock Shrike designs (so far) so stole the name lol...

It's sorta like FS2, we have 5 different Orion II's now (I think) and no one cares cause none of them are canon and people use what they like in their mods (I prefer Hamano's though, it's #1 in my book!).

Star Dragon · « **Reply #68 on:** September 28, 2008, 06:44:31 am »

Only about 60% done on the retexturing (minor editing removed 4 barrels to make pulse emitters)

Originally is a Phoenix class, but for Trek ws thinking Firebrand or Firebird? Any suggestions?

This is a rough approximation as the insignias will be changed to Feds soon, and the white hull will be more Feddish later, the registry is temp so I could see how it turns out. It has a nose deflector, underbelly single photon slot, and 4 light pulse phasers.

Model is by Trashman for FS2.

Thoughts?

Star Dragon · « **Reply #69 on:** April 27, 2009, 11:24:02 pm »

Back again... Thanks to Kreeargh for posting that Sith SD! I found the use of the BSG runway texture...Interesting.

Anyway, inspired by Marky D and his Arrow, I figure why not have the Romulans make some sort of Bomber/Makeshift Armed Transport? it would be around x2 as big as the Delta Flyer. The head would have 2-4 people and the "belly" hold up to 12max?

This woudl be more of a "Gunship" though Trek really doesn't have that category unless you count the smallest size BOP.

Just an idea but throw some clothes on Rom#19 and delete the wings (really disliked that style) and you come up with this. Made me think, hey this doesn't really need wings huh?

Again, 50% of textures are keeper the rest are ideatype placeholders... C & C welcome and of course hoping for permission from C&D studios DE people for support.

No name yet. Phasers to be painted on later

Panzergranate · « **Reply #70 on:** April 29, 2009, 01:08:49 pm »

I've been working with numerous SSDs, from the PHD and Smiley Lich websites, as a basis for ship designs or just producing a model to go with the SSD.

Some of the PHD Kzinti "proposed and submitted" SSDs have come out quite well, as SFB Kzinti starships are built to a set, though mundane, design formula, they are so easy to kitbash.

The advantage of working from SSDs is that they give (A) all the internal workings that the hull has to accomodate, and (B), a design brief with which to work within.

Kreeargh · « **Reply #71 on:** April 30, 2009, 12:03:49 am »

Quote from: Star Dragon on April 27, 2009, 11:24:02 pm

Back again... Thanks to Kreeargh for posting that Sith SD! I found the use of the BSG runway texture...Interesting.

Anyway, inspired by Marky D and his Arrow, I figure why not have the Romulans make some sort of Bomber/Makeshift Armed Transport? it would be around x2 as big as the Delta Flyer. The head would have 2-4 people and the "belly" hold up to 12max?

This woudl be more of a "Gunship" though Trek really doesn't have that category unless you count the smallest size BOP.

Just an idea but throw some clothes on Rom#19 and delete the wings (really disliked that style) and you come up with this. Made me think, hey this doesn't really need wings huh?

Again, 50% of textures are keeper the rest are ideatype placeholders... C & C welcome and of course hoping for permission from C&D studios DE people for support.

No name yet. Phasers to be painted on later

Lookin good on that ship

Keep up with the maping and texturing work the gaming community's need more of those artists model rs are a dime a dozen now.
Yea i don't have much time for Swars texturing these days

I hoped noone would notice the symbol was bsg and think it was sith or something. + i didn't know what er Sith textures would look like or that ship would have been released a year a go

I cant speak for Unknown Directly we haven't chatted in a while but I'm sure he will be OK with any changes as long as you give him credit for his part , same as i for sfc releases. But please anyone ask me to convert to other games or stuff i need to know the converters of our work . I am finding our designs on websites that create CnC castings and some of these guys DO NOT have our premission to use our work.

Star Dragon · « **Reply #72 on:** May 02, 2009, 12:43:41 am »

You know me, with the exception of [HERU] and [Why?], I've never released anyone's work.
I retouched some of H's Starblazer ships to take advantage of SCP. I released WHY?'s SB models from KA with his permission and now thanks to him the Starshatter Community was able to realease a actual SB MOD (So go download it already!!!)

Many of the people here are permissioned for the Trek mod, but after 5+ years working on it at a sail's pace, I sometimes think it will never be released. Heh... Fun to just work on it though.

Everything else is for myself or the fanfic shots.

As for me, I can't model, texture, or code... I just get lucky sometimes and people like the results of my mangling. I'm just privaleged you guys tolerate me.

In fact I was shocked Raven came over to the GW site like last month and gave his OK for the USS Scorpion. I was floored. But I immediately dusted off my old drive.

This was the Ludi conversion I got into hot water for after asking HIM for permission and I got the "free to use all" reply. Thankfully, Raven set me straight quickly about permissions and where he (Ludi) got those meshes from (most of the non stock meshes he used he ripped from BC2 slated models)!!!

The good news it was kinda historic cause it helped to prove the viability of a Trek mod for FS2 (cap ships with shields ect, crude though at the time...)

But thanks to Raven, I recently re-conveted and applied the glow and shine maps and this is todays Scorpion: Noticeable difference. Not teh best shot but only one I have ATM

Originally, I was so depressed by my inadvertent misuse that I didn't touch the files (even for personal use) since Raven mailed me back in 2003ish or so. So it's funny how things can work out.

This is also a Fed fighter Candidate from Macave (Starshatter). Just a test as I manipulated the main body a bit and these wings are temporary. But liek all fighters, I envision things inspired by Marky D'a arrow and Kaeden's Griffon fighter.

News:

Topic: Noob Kitbashing! I suck :) (Read 17029 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Topic: Noob Kitbashing! I suck :) (Read 17029 times)