Topic: Pictures of surface water on Mars?

[Nemesis]

but I just don't buy into the global warming arguement, with respect to those who do, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Stephen

I don't buy into either side because the historical flip flopping form cooling to warming and back by reputable climatologists shows that the experts haven't reached consensus yet though some claim otherwise.  As a non expert I don't even have close to the information to make a judgment.  Neither side has conclusive evidence and now it has become a political issue and that clouds the science involved.  Until it stops being political and becomes science again there is no chance that it will be resolved based on the merits of the data. 

[Nemesis]

 
The human race contributes between 0.4 to 1% of the planet's total carbon emissions. This is a fact.

Sometimes a minor addition or subtraction can upset a precarious balance.  An avalanche can start because one stone moves.  Ever step up to a river bank and have it collapse under you (I have)?  It was stable until that extra weight arrived.  It might have stayed so for hundreds of years and then your weight changed the balance.

"Give me place to stand and a lever long enough and I will move the world" is a classic quote that illustrates the principle that small things can have big effects.

 
The sea produces 98% of the CO2 emissions because that is where most of the planet's life exists

And how much of the CO2 is then taken up by oceanic plants?

 
nother fact. The sun heats the sea up, life flourishes and produces more CO2

Ocean plants flourish and take in the CO2 as well.

 
The world needs to except that global warming is a natural process over which we have no control, just like a tornado,

Forest fires are mostly natural but humans can cause them as well.  It can be extremely difficult to tell which was the source in any given fire as the evidence is often consumed.  Humans can also often stop or even direct them. 

Tornadoes and hurricanes are driven by heat it might become possible in the future to manipulate the heat patterns and direct, stop or even create them.  Research has been done along these lines and not yet proven it to be impossible.

Global warming may be the same.  If it exists maybe this time we caused it or maybe it would have happened anyway.

[Just plain old Punisher]

The sea also produces most of our oxygen via blue green alge.

That alge is dying off at an alarming rate because mankind uses the worlds oceans as a toilet.

[Sirgod]

The sea also produces most of our oxygen via blue green alge.

That alge is dying off at an alarming rate because mankind uses the worlds oceans as a toilet.

<snikers> Not me, I'm in a land locked state.

Stephen

[Just plain old Punisher]

The sea also produces most of our oxygen via blue green alge.

That alge is dying off at an alarming rate because mankind uses the worlds oceans as a toilet.

<snikers> Not me, I'm in a land locked state.

Stephen

Yea, but all the runoff from your state goes into rivers which in turn empty into other rivers which in turn all empty into the sea.

Or, in other words, crap flows downhill =)

[Sirgod]

Not trying to Fact check you here, But I understand from well educated Texans, that Oklahoma Sucks, and that's why Texas hasn't fell into the ocean.

Seriously That is a good point. Human waste is Bio Degradable though, and Even most toilet papers are. Heck I've used myself Fecal matter from the cows, to grow more plants, veggies, etc.

Stephen

[Just plain old Punisher]

Not trying to Fact check you here, But I understand from well educated Texans, that Oklahoma Sucks, and that's why Texas hasn't fell into the ocean.

Seriously That is a good point. Human waste is Bio Degradable though, and Even most toilet papers are. Heck I've used myself Fecal matter from the cows, to grow more plants, veggies, etc.

Stephen

Nope sorry, can't get away from it.

To be blunt, it's all your fault. Enviornmental damage, pollution, barbara stiesand.

All you.

[Sirgod]

Barbara Striestand... You Bastard.

Stephen

[Nemesis]

Road salt, excessive pesticides and herbicides.  Don't forget all the damage done by DDT.  Thats ignoring industrial waste and accidental toxic spills.  A one drum spill where I work once left the local river foaming.   

All stuff that we really need to get better about whether there is global warming or not.  Whether we affect global warming or not.  Just for our own long term health and survival as a species.

[Panzergranate]

That's my arguement!!

The governments, industrialists, poluterss, etc. are happy to jump onto the CO2 bandwagon as it is a goo distraction from the real and proven dangers to our world.

Remember CFCs, N2O, Ozone, DDT, Toxic waste, landfill, deforestation, acid rain, Dioxins, waste oil, etc.

Never hear a peep out of the media or governments about these nowadays do you. They're still there but the CO2 decoy is helping to focus joe public's attention away from them.

Ironically if you fit a Cat Converter onto a 4 stroke engine to stop harmful low level haelth hazard smog (2 strokes don't make N2O so don't need them!!), you more than double the engine's CO2 emissions!!

A kind of irony there!!

What ever happened to the hole in the Ozone Layer over the South Pole?? Anyone hear anything new about that?? The media soon lost interest with that.

Some where along the line the media has stopped people from reasoning.

Over here in the UK we have newspapers for people who need to be told what to believe!! usually what Rupert Murdock wants them to believe!!

We are going through an anti-renaisance, an age of unreasoning where people just accept what they are told to believe and those that can still reason or dare to are attacked.

It's a sad age we live in.

[Nemesis]

Remember CFCs, N2O, Ozone, DDT, Toxic waste, landfill, deforestation, acid rain, Dioxins, waste oil, etc.

Some of that is being addressed.

CFCs - effectively outlawed in much of the world.  Replaced with more benign direct substitute.  That substitute is now being phased out for something even more benign.  Japan and China are a problem.  Japan made upgrading away from CFCs cheaper by selling the old CFC making and using equipment to China.  China "modernized" by buying it.  Rather defeated the purpose of Japan phasing out CFCs.

Ozone - Depletion caused by CFCs.  Still being monitored.  Seems to be getting better slowly.

DDT - Outlawed in most of the world.

Toxic waste - growing recycling systems.

Deforestation - on going problem.  Attempts at reforesting with inconsistent results as usually the logging companies plant what is cheap not what was there before. 

Dioxins and PCBs -  restrictions compared to the old days but still needs to improve

Waste oils - some recycling and some burned to generate power.

[Nemesis]

Global Warming and Mars - Positive Feedback

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If Mars is being warmed by a hotter sun these days it may have effects that most people don't expect.  It is believed that the rocks and soil of Mars perhaps to a depth as great as 1 kilometer contain a great deal of absorbed CO₂.  As the rocks and soil warm some of that CO₂ will be released.  Released CO₂ will enhance the greenhouse effect causing higher temperatures and more released CO₂.  The more CO₂ that is released the higher the temperature.  The higher the temperature the more CO₂ is released.  Positive feedback. 

It could result in a Mars with sufficient air (though unbreathable) to allow much easier exploration in addition to temperatures and pressures sufficient to allow liquid water on the surface.  A thicker air would allow more efficient use of air braking for space craft, which means less fuel.  If water is deep enough over a wide area water landings become possible.  Easily available water would allow easy generation of fuel for a return flight.  All of which means bigger cheaper probes and easier manned exploration. 

A thick enough atmosphere would allow for as little as just a face mask and oxygen tank for breathing with little or no other protection.  No space suits.  Cheaper lighter more reliable.  Thicker air also means more protection from solar radiation.