Topic: Pictures of surface water on Mars?

[Nemesis]

Link to full article

A new analysis of pictures taken by the exploration rover Opportunity reveals what appear to be small ponds of liquid water on the surface of Mars.

The article includes an image.

[Centurus]

If it's not liquid water, maybe it's some other liquid substance that wasn't expected to be on Mars, or wasn't known to be.  What that is, I don't know.

But this is very interesting, and personally quite fascinating, the possibility of liquid water on the Martian surface.  Maybe those ponds might be fissures that allowed possibly underground liquid water to rise to the surface.

[Panzergranate]

Its actually another nail in the Carbon Gases cause Global Warming coffin.

NASA, Climatologists, Cosmolist, Solaroligists, Radio Hams, etc. have been pointing out for about a decade that the Sun is a lot hotter than normal, hence why global warming is happening. NASA have even pointed out that this increased activity is causing Mars to warm up, hence the water detection.

However the Chicken Littles, Emporer's New Clothes brigade, PC Lobb, Envioro Nazisy and Green fanatics want us to ignore the over whelming evidence that the Carbo Gases thing is bullsh*t and play King Canute with the Sun.

The Sun runs iin 11 year activity cycles. If you do Ham Radio like me you'll know all about these events. Every 800 years it cranks  it up a bit. In 1200 to 1400 the UK was so hot that the Scot managed to grow grapes in Scotland!!

Greenlnad was so named by the Vikings because of its rich, abundant forests, which the Mini-Ice Age from 1400 to the late 1800's destoryed.

The "Mars is hotting up too" statement always leaves the Carbon supporters flumuxed.

I want to know how history will see this g;lobal lie in the future and those that purpurtrated it.  Sooner or later the Sun'll cool down again and then folks will wake up to it.

[Just plain old Punisher]

Correlation is not causation.

[Panzergranate]

So many people have their carreers and reputations gambled on the Carbon theory that they ignore the flaws and pray that it'll come true.

The latest good news is that the sun is expected to cool down considerably by 2240, which will affect us of course. Will mankind be responsible for that as well??

[Nemesis]

The "Mars is hotting up too" statement always leaves the Carbon supporters flumuxed.

If it is purely the sun then the other planets with atmospheres should be heating up as well.   Where is the data of Venus, Jupiter and Saturn (just to name the closest 3).  If they are heating up as well then it is clearly a common factor if not then Mars heating up now could be a coincidence.  Two similar things happening may be coincidence, 5 is a pattern.

Whether global warming is real or not dealing with pollution now is a good thing to do. 

[Panzergranate]

It concerns me that all the politicians, industry, et all are jumping on this bandwagon to focus public opinion away from PCBs, Dioxins, heavy metals, etc. poluting our world.

It's like a convenient distraction for them, pretending to be concerned about carbon emissions whilst dumping poison elsewhere.

If governments were that serious they'd ban catalytic converters as these increase a vehicle's CO2 emissions!! An engineering fact.

How come we don't hear about the ozone layer anymore?? What's happening to the hole??

The gren lobby has been wrong before, look at the US 2 stroke ban, which has since been proven to be less poluting than the 4 stroke engine. A 2 stroke makes 2% NO2 per volume of fuel combusted compared to the 4 stroke's 48%!! 2 Stroke don't need cat converters and make 3 times the torque/power or a 4 stroke.

Aparently tests put the diesel as beng the dirtiest engine!!

As the president of GM saidm "By 2200 cars will be either DI 2 stroke or something else,

Global Warming is happening just as it did a 1,000 years ago, ending in the 1400's. We survived it then and we'll survive it again, as we always have through out history.

[Centurus]

The "Mars is hotting up too" statement always leaves the Carbon supporters flumuxed.

If it is purely the sun then the other planets with atmospheres should be heating up as well.   Where is the data of Venus, Jupiter and Saturn (just to name the closest 3).  If they are heating up as well then it is clearly a common factor if not then Mars heating up now could be a coincidence.  Two similar things happening may be coincidence, 5 is a pattern.

Whether global warming is real or not dealing with pollution now is a good thing to do. 

Agreed.  +1

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Global Warming is happening just as it did a 1,000 years ago, ending in the 1400's. We survived it then and we'll survive it again, as we always have through out history.

Perhaps, though even if we do.. that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do anything just because we "might" survive it.. even if we do.. how many people would be sacrificed just because we have the idea "We'll thats bad but we'll survive it"?
As for Mars.. well it really doesn't matter if the sun is heating things up there since the liquid would remain in a non-frozen state if that is some sorta pond "hot spring"(not necessarily a hot spring, but in works in the same general principal) keeping it from freezing

[Just plain old Punisher]

Besides, water vapor is responsible for the vast majority of warming on this planet. Water vapor doesn't exist in mars atmoshphere.

Trying to compare the climate of Mars and the Climate of Earth is like apples and oranges.

[Panzergranate]

The fact is that over here in the UK, for the past decade they've been telling people to use stronger and stronger sun protection cremes than nack in the 1980's because the Sun's UV output is stronger than it used to be in the past.

This was years before the Global Warming thing started.

Now they're using the Carbon Theory thing as an excuse to bring back the spectre of building new Nuclear Powerplants here and in Europe (and Iran!!). The Nuclear Industry desperately wants this unproven theory to be true as well.

This is just one of the bad things that has jumped on the band wagon.

I feel that the Carbon Theory is an attempt to take all our eyes off of the real ball.

There are so many environmental disasters happening in the world that no one reports, the media isn't intrested in and are far more threatening to the world that need to be sorted out.

The Carbon Lie is just a decoy for the environmental vandals out there.

 

[Panzergranate]

Oh, and another thing!!

Did Microsoft write the weather modeling software??

Was it run on a ,in order of magnatude, PC, MAC, SUN, Gateway Super Amiga (NASA use these!!) or something amazing??!!

At the moment I'm having a swaering session with the new laptop whch happened to come with VISTA.

VISTA's internet defence system won't let me log into HOTMAIL as it reckons that the site has had its security licenec revoked!!

It does once in a blue moon (after about a thousand attempts) but will then crash out again and up comes the message, "This site's security lcertificate has been revoked".

Great isn't it.... Microsoft software refusing to let me into a Microsoft site!!

As per usual VISTA help was designed by a Pakled software engineer!! (No change from all other WINDOWS there then!!)

Why oh why didn't I buy a MAC or Sun this time around??!!

[Lieutenant_Q]

I still remember the "Global Cooling" hysteria that was all the rage in the scientific circles in the late 70s early 80s.  If we were in a "cooling" cycle back then, how did we suddenly get to a "Global Warming" cycle?

All this is is an attempt to bring Government regulation deeper into the private sector.  What will we become?  Socialists?  or worse...?

[Nemesis]

I've read books on archeology and paleontology for as long as I can remember.  Some of the books were very old and climate scientists have been changing their minds about every 20 years as to whether we are heating up or cooling down.  That is why I haven't said anything pro or con on the topic of global warming.

Whether there is global warming or not pollution needs to be restricted. 

[Panzergranate]

Global warming is a fact!!

It's happened before in human written history and will happen again, along with periods of global cooling.

The human race contributes between 0.4 to 1% of the planet's total carbon emissions. This is a fact. The sea produces 98% of the CO2 emissions because that is where most of the planet's life exists. Another fact. The sun heats the sea up, life flourishes and produces more CO2. A fact once again. When the sun isn't so hot as during the 150 year long mini ice age, life isn't doing so well in the sea nad the CO2 levels drop.

And here's the interesting bit, the CO2 levels at that time are stored in the polar ice. And these ice core samples show that during the last global warming episode from 800 AD to 1400 AD with peak warming of +6 degrees C more than we have now from 1200 to 1400 AD, had the planets CO2 levels higher than we have now!!

Strange that Medieval Man didn't have heavy industry, automobiles, aircraft, etc. to "cause" this. 

And the geoligists say that there was no extra volcanic activity at the time to cause this either.

The Chicken Littles need to seriously read the history books more and stop trying to spoil everyoones lives.

The world needs to except that global warming is a natural process over which we have no control, just like a tornado, and start planning how to help those most affected by it. The money would be better spent than wasted on these useless junkets.

We can't stop global warming no more than King Canute could stop the tide. All we can do is prepare for it, endure it and wait for it to finish. Maybe even take advantage of it with agriculture on Greenland and Spitzbergen again.

As for socialism, er the Federation is socialist according to what Picard tells the guy from the cryosat in a TNG episode.

Don't mix up socialism with communism, they are very different things.

In the Federation they have no money, people are encouraged and assisted to advance themselves to there best abilities, if you need food you just go to a food dispenser, free medicare, free education, etc. These are all socialist things.

No one is held down or held back from acheivement because they're underpriveldged or poor.

Also Picard points out that there are no corporations after the UN banned them for being the primary cause behind WW3!! They also banned lawyers which obviously made the planet a better place!!

The Federation is socialist in principle and its goals!!

 

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Perhaps, or perhaps not, but still even if so... at least there wasnt any additional pollution from man made devices back then like there are today. At least back then you didnt have to wake up in the morning, go for a walk, and smell the fresh smog of cities nearby and perhaps cough for a bit, like you have to today(especially on one of those code red smog alert days).

[Nemesis]

Perhaps, or perhaps not, but still even if so... at least there wasnt any additional pollution from man made devices back then like there are today. At least back then you didnt have to wake up in the morning, go for a walk, and smell the fresh smog of cities nearby and perhaps cough for a bit, like you have to today(especially on one of those code red smog alert days).

Which is why I get so annoyed with some of the "global warming isn't occurring or is natural" crowd who seem to assume that therefore we should ignore pollution.  Pollution is a problem even without global warming.

[Sirgod]

Nem, I agree with you once again. Personaly I think this Global warming thing is a farce, but Pollution affects everyone. Everyone can do something to help on that, From Recycling, to better cooking methods. I'm a big proponent of Conservation, but I just don't buy into the global warming arguement, with respect to those who do, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Stephen

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

+1
..
Yes, definetly, its pollution thats the problem. I could care less if global warming is disproved or proven or remains a theory. I'd prefer it where I wont have to be in the future carrying around a oxygen tank just to walk outside without pollution making it impossible for anyone to breath.
So if Global Warming really is 99% natural over human acclerated, then at least we can all breath better while being hot. If it is not even real then at least we wont be having so many medical emergencies related to all the medical problems caused by too much pollution. If Global Warming is true and mostly caused by humans, then kill the pollution and global warming stablizes.

So nomatter if Global Warming is real, fake, human caused, natural, mixed, or completly false to the infinite power, pollution must go.

[Sirgod]

Right back at ya SFHQ. I'm constantly looking for way's to have a cleaner Ranch. Granted, Some things there is just no answer for, Have to have that fuel burning truck , as there isn't anything out there to handle my needs. Do a monthly Safe burn, etc. But If I could come up with a way for that, I'd do it.

Stephen