Topic: AOTK3: Can we special out Maulers??

[Lepton]

Is anyone planning on flying a mauler in the future?  I am really sick of seeing maulers in AI missions.  These are assault ships not skirmishing ships.  I'd rather that the AI missions were drafting real ships that have some normal combat effectiveness than these things.  And why do these things keep getting selected by the mission scripts?  Isn't there any other ships in a comparable bpv range that the scripts could substitute?  I'd say that this point we should special these things out and if anyone really wants to fly one, they can get one by a DB edit.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I know of at least 2 Coalition pilots who are flying maulers now.
So, I would say no...

[Lepton]

That they have maulers now is not a problem.  No one said they can't fly them.  I just am I tired of seeing them in AI missions.  Last ten, hell, twenty mission I have run, if it's a 3v3 or even a 2v2 guaranteed there is a mauler in the opposing AI if not two.  I want to see D5 whatevers, F5 whatevers, and D7 whatevers, etc.  Not MD5s and D6Ms.

[FPF-DieHard]

DB edits are a pain and are done at the whim of the admin so I would say no.   Until we get working SQL i think ediits should not be relied on for most ships

However, I think some maulers can be removed in M  future servers as they are kinda usless in PvP.   For every peregrine or Flamehawk there's a D6M 

[Lepton]

Do you have any idea why they keep getting selected of all the possible ships to be selected in the klink ship list?  There should be any number of suitable ships in their bpv range.  Why a mauler every stinking time?

[Hexx]

The Rom maulers are kinda fun (imho anyway- dunno if anyone else likes them) and the Lyran onesa re kinda decent. (Especially the STL)
Not sure about the Klinks ones- never seen a real use for them in this game but...

I think the enemy AI is generated depending on what ship you have- it tries to match (within a certain % ) your BPV, so a D6M may be it's best match against a CWLPp or whatver you're flying.
Could be wrong though, best to bother a scripter..

[Dizzy]

There should be any number of suitable ships in their bpv range.  Why a mauler every stinking time?

Lepton you'll need to be completely descriptive if DH will even consider helping. The kind oif mission run, the exact bpv ship you're drafting with and the exact frequency and type of mauler you're getting willl need to be known.

Adjusting their BPV server side may fix the problem if DH is willing to try that approach. If you're getting maulers every mission, it may be worth trying it.

[Lepton]

There should be any number of suitable ships in their bpv range.  Why a mauler every stinking time?

Lepton you'll need to be completely descriptive if DH will even consider helping. The kind oif mission run, the exact bpv ship you're drafting with and the exact frequency and type of mauler you're getting willl need to be known.

Adjusting their BPV server side may fix the problem if DH is willing to try that approach. If you're getting maulers every mission, it may be worth trying it.

I think everyone is getting maulers.  It's like a joke on the server.  "Oh yeah, mauler".  I am drafting with a CWLPp (147 bpv), any 3v3 or 2v2 mission.  It's a common event.  Ask anyone on the Kitty side who is getting opposing Klink AI.  And frequency is nearly every damn time. 

I doubt anyone is flying a Klink mauler or wishes to.  Just special them out or whatever.

And it's not helping me.  It's helping everyone. Nearly as I can tell it's a bug that has been around since I can remember.  If you take a mission against Klink AI, invariably one of the ships is very likely to be a mauler within what I assume is a certain bpv range.

[FPF-DieHard]

I'll SPECIAL out the D6M when I do the sunday morning maintenance.     I highly doubt anyone will fly them.   I've got a bunch of other edits to do when I return, I'l add that to the list.

[Lepton]

D6MK would be better unless you are going to hit all the D6M variants, as I don't think the strict D6M is out now.

[Soreyes]

It is getting to be a bit of a joke there DH. Ran about 25 this morning. In about 20 missions I drew eather a D6MK or a MD5 or a combo of both.

[Lepton]

BOO YAH!!!!!!  I told you.  No, Lepton's delusional.  No, Lepton's off his meds.  No, Lepton's got into the nip again.  VINDICATION!!!  HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAAAHAHAH!!!!!


I feel better now.  Don't you???

[Soreyes]

BOO YAH!!!!!!  I told you.  No, Lepton's delusional.  No, Lepton's off his meds.  No, Lepton's got into the nip again.  VINDICATION!!!  HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAAAHAHAH!!!!!


I feel better now.  Don't you???

 

[NuclearWessels]

The missions pretty much just say, pick me an available ship in the BPV range X-Y.

For 2271, if you take a look at the BPV range 113-133 (which covers a pretty good chunk of the common drawing bpv), you'll find the available klingon ships are:

Drone boats:  D6D, D6DB
Maulers: MD5, D6MK
Carrier: D5VK
Escort: D5E
Other: D6K, D5L

That means that if you grab three ships in that bpv range there's about at 58% chance at least one is a mauler.
(And only a 1/64 chance that you won't be facing at least one specialty ship).

<shrugs>  Unfortunately, BPV ranges are the only things the scripts can use to avoid out-of-era drafting, so as long as there is an abundance of draftable specialty ships in the list in any given year(s), that's what we wind up fighting.

(Similarly, in the Rom list in the 113-137 bpv range in 2271, 2 of the 5 ship available for drafting are maulers.)

One suggestion that might work is to create a variety of restricted line ships, e.g. the D6K1, D6K2, etc, with the same stats.  That way they won't clutter the shipyards but will be more common as AI opposition, and the "desirable" specialty ships can be kept in the list and shipyards.

We'd only want to do that with a handful of line ships from each race, preferably ones with long lifespans in the shiplist (to prevent bloating the shiplist too much), but it is a possibility.

dave

[Lepton]

In missions with a single AI opposing, I tend to get the D5L, D7L, or the D5D.  I am wondering if there is any weight given in the scripts to the year last available as a number of these ships you've cited are available until 999, so always available.  Might the scripts be more likely to select a ship with a longer period of service than another?

[NuclearWessels]

In missions with a single AI opposing, I tend to get the D5L, D7L, or the D5D.  I am wondering if there is any weight given in the scripts to the year last available as a number of these ships you've cited are available until 999, so always available.  Might the scripts be more likely to select a ship with a longer period of service than another?

Interesting question - I'll open up the serverkit code and see if I can find anything that sheds more light on how the selection is made.

IIRC, all it does is create a list of the ships currently available in the right bpv range, then randomly select one from that list - but that's just my memory of a quick run through the kit, so I may have overlooked something.

EDIT:  Here's the way the AI selection is handled by the serverkit

From tMetaSpecLoader::SelectHull(shiptobefilled, race, params, byEra)

• create a vector of all ships of the chosen race within the allowable hull class range (typically Frigate-to-Battleship)
  
• prune ships by special role (under some circumstances, eliminate scouts, carriers, sublights, tournament ships, commando ships, and restricted ships -- this never eliminates maulers or drone ships)
  
• prune ships by year  (eliminate all ships whose YFA/YLA doesn't cover the current year)
  
• prune ships by bpv  (and if no ships are within the desired bpv range then pick the one that is closest to the desired bpv range, in case of ties pick the first closest one found)
  
• if we've pruned out everything then relax the hull class restrictions and try again,
  otherwise randomly select one ship out of the remaining list
  

dave

[IAF Lyrkiller]

When I am in a CWLPp, I dont always get maulers. When I do, I just take them out or disable them to where they wont do any horriable damage.
But yes, I too have gotten the D6M and the MD5 together. Thats why I like to fly in a BCP, no maulers.

[Dizzy]

Drone boats:  D6D, D6DB
Maulers: MD5, D6MK
Carrier: D5VK
Escort: D5E
Other: D6K, D5L

That means that if you grab three ships in that bpv range there's about at 58% chance at least one is a mauler.
(And only a 1/64 chance that you won't be facing at least one specialty ship).

You say commando ships were pruned? Not true. If left in the shiplist they will still be generated as AI. I see a solution... This is a special situation here because in that BPV range there are only a few ships selectable for AI matches. So I plan to add a K-D5L1, K-D5L2, K-D5L3, and same with all the other non Mauler/special ships to the shiplist so the odds are that the maulers are not chosen so often.

[NuclearWessels]

No, I'm saying the server kit contains code that ALLOWS commando (and some other specialty ships) to be pruned.  It doesn't contain any such provision for maulers or for drone boats (and probably some others I didn't think to check for).

The specific list of Klingon ships I gave as an example was based solely on what wasn't R'd or specialed out in 2271 in the current shiplist.

dave

[Dizzy]

Ok, so if we set (how?) the serverkit to exclude commando ships, then we have a control method for keeping any ship we want from appearing as AI? But how do we enable this feature, and more importantly, in order for this to work, these 'commando' tagged ships still have to show in tyhe yards. So how do we set it up as such?