Topic: AOTK3: PvP and Map VC points

[FPF-DieHard]

In the previous 2 AOTK servers, the primary focus of the conflist was over planets in the cent of the map.   There were other objectives, but this was the meat and potatoes of the Victory conditions points.   AOTK3 will stick with this.

I've outlined the PvP VCs in a previous thread, here are the most recent incarnation of those:

PvP Kill VC Points

AOTK3 will be going back to the direct Points for kills system.   Below is the scorecard:

Battleship:     20 Points
CVA/DN/I-CCX:    10 Points
CA X-ship/BCV/BCS:      7 points
BCH:      5 Points
CL X-ship:   4 Points
CA:                2 point (This includes the F-CS/F-CS+)
Specialty ships (regardless of move cost): 3 points
Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost:  1 point *

* Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost are worth 0 points when flying solo.

Here is what I'm thinking for the map VCs . . .   

Any of the 7 Center Dilithium/Nip Planets:  20 VC points  (With Line of Supply)
Any opposed captured planet:                     5 VC points (With Line of Supply)

With these ratios, I think more map VCs will be scored than PvP during the course of the campaign.

Please post questions and comments.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Acceptable.

[KBF MalaK]

Acceptable.

I take it you've seen the spec ship list then ?? Thats the part thats scary seeing a spec ship is 3 (regardless of size) and a CA is 2.

Hmm

[KBFLordKrueg]

Acceptable.

I take it you've seen the spec ship list then ?? Thats the part thats scary seeing a spec ship is 3 (regardless of size) and a CA is 2.

Hmm

Spec ship means Carriers, escorts, droners, maulers, Commando...anything that's not a Capitol ship, Command cruiser or line ship.

[FPF-DieHard]

Acceptable.

I take it you've seen the spec ship list then ?? Thats the part thats scary seeing a spec ship is 3 (regardless of size) and a CA is 2.

Hmm

Spec ship means Carriers, escorts, droners, maulers...anything that's not a Command cruiser or line ship.

Kreug, this isn't a huge sticking point with me.   If you and Dlfy want to set the Scorecard level for Spec ships to be the same as CAs that's fine with me.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

With these ratios, I think more map VCs will be scored than PvP during the course of the campaign.

Please post questions and comments.

I wouldn't be so sure about that if two DN kills are worth a planet, or will there be VC rounds in which planet points are counted.

Also with opposed planets being worth so much less you pretty much elininate most of the map from most of the play.  I think you should make all the planets equal and let the proximity of the Nip planets be the main draw to that part of the map.  It might be just as easy to take an opposing world to a nip planet but a nip planet is closer to more targets.

If anything the opposing plaets should be worth more, as they will be more difficult to take.

[FPF-DieHard]

I wouldn't be so sure about that if two DN kills are worth a planet, or will there be VC rounds in which planet points are counted.

Doh!   yes, there will be rounds, 3 or 4 VC periods so holding the territroy adds up.   Forgot to mention that.

If anything the opposing plaets should be worth more, as they will be more difficult to take.

No, I want people focussing at the center of the map.  the best way to do that is to make the Centers worth the most.

Taking the center planets  won't be the hard part.   HOLDING the center planets is where the fun begins

[FPF-DieHard]

PS.   The map has been updated with the planets and bases.  Embasy basses will be added basck and I still have to add terrain.   

The Center planets have been Set as Klingon for now so they are easy to spot.

[FPF-Paladin]

Looks really cool, can't wait for the start. 

[Kruk]

In the previous 2 AOTK servers, the primary focus of the conflist was over planets in the cent of the map.   There were other objectives, but this was the meat and potatoes of the Victory conditions points.   AOTK3 will stick with this.

I've outlined the PvP VCs in a previous thread, here are the most recent incarnation of those:

PvP Kill VC Points

AOTK3 will be going back to the direct Points for kills system.   Below is the scorecard:

Battleship:     20 Points
CVA/DN/I-CCX:    10 Points
CA X-ship/BCV/BCS:      7 points
BCH:      5 Points
CL X-ship:   4 Points
CA:                2 point (This includes the F-CS/F-CS+)
Specialty ships (regardless of move cost): 3 points
Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost:  1 point *

* Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost are worth 0 points when flying solo.

Here is what I'm thinking for the map VCs . . .   

Any of the 7 Center Dilithium/Nip Planets:  20 VC points  (With Line of Supply)
Any opposed captured planet:                     5 VC points (With Line of Supply)

With these ratios, I think more map VCs will be scored than PvP during the course of the campaign.

Please post questions and comments.

Looks good,

I know it's only a beta but shouldn't planet be worth some economy points? right now they have 0

Also I saw the F-DVL at 15000 and the DNL and DN+ over the 40000.

Having a few planets on the way to the center would help replenishing. These could be worth nothing in terms of economic points. Just have them for resupply.

Just my toughts

[FPF-DieHard]

Looks good,

I know it's only a beta but shouldn't planet be worth some economy points? right now they have 0

Also I saw the F-DVL at 15000 and the DNL and DN+ over the 40000.

Having a few planets on the way to the center would help replenishing. These could be worth nothing in terms of economic points. Just have them for resupply.

Just my toughts

OP+ 4 has the DVL listed as CARRIER, it's flagged as DN in the mod.

I'm thinking about adding some small resupply planets

[Dizzy]

OP+4.0 cannot ever be used as a dyna server shiplist. It's not dyna friendly.

Hey DH, do you have deepstrike rules? The way u have it, if you dont have to fight to the death if caught is that .67 ships can move around in an enemy's rear and two p[eeps can take seperate missions solo, and wait till they get where they are going then draft each other in a base assault. I'd add to the rule that says line ships under 1 move cost are worth zero unless deepstriking.

[FPF-DieHard]

OP+4.0 cannot ever be used as a dyna server shiplist. It's not dyna friendly.

Hey DH, do you have deepstrike rules? The way u have it, if you dont have to fight to the death if caught is that .67 ships can move around in an enemy's rear and two p[eeps can take seperate missions solo, and wait till they get where they are going then draft each other in a base assault. I'd add to the rule that says line ships under 1 move cost are worth zero unless deepstriking.

Yup, the DS rules are the same as we've used for the past 10 servers so I didn't bother to post them for review.

[Dizzy]

Can u post the complete rules now?

[FPF-DieHard]

Can u post the complete rules now?

By this weekend yes.   That will still give everyone a week to review before we go live. 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

No, I want people focussing at the center of the map.  the best way to do that is to make the Centers worth the most.

Taking the center planets  won't be the hard part.   HOLDING the center planets is where the fun begins

They would focus on the center anyways, but with that point scheme there is no reason to be anywhere else, you might as well trim off the other areas entirely, or "zoom in" the center where 1 hex = 7 hexes.  Whats the point of having the other areas at all if they are effectively removed from play anyhow.  Having the other space included under the current system seems awfully to borrow a friends favorite word.....RETARDED.

[FPF-DieHard]

No, I want people focussing at the center of the map.  the best way to do that is to make the Centers worth the most.

Taking the center planets  won't be the hard part.   HOLDING the center planets is where the fun begins

They would focus on the center anyways, but with that point scheme there is no reason to be anywhere else, you might as well trim off the other areas entirely, or "zoom in" the center where 1 hex = 7 hexes.  Whats the point of having the other areas at all if they are effectively removed from play anyhow.  Having the other space included under the current system seems awfully retarded.

Maybe 10 points instead of 5 would work to kind of balance this.   If Kreug and Dlfy are cool with this, we can change thisl.

On thing I do want to point out is the Center plants are HOMEWORLDs and the assults are going to be brutal.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Maybe 10 points instead of 5 would work to kind of balance this.   If Kreug and Dlfy are cool with this, we can change thisl.

On thing I do want to point out is the Center plants are HOMEWORLDs and the assults are going to be brutal.

I think 10 points wouldn't change a thing, although it is some better, especially with homeworld assaults figured in.  I still think 20 would be fine and still make the center planets the main target, not just because of the points for one, but becuse they serve as resupply for the others, something not so much the case in enemy space.  In enemy space the foe starts out with control of all the surrounding hexes so the work is doubled right off the bat, if not tripled.  Puptting the total at 20 would not change the main emphasis, it would just add possible side actions.

I mean come on would you make a main emphasis on taking a planet that was just 3-5 hexes away from the next target through neutral space, or go after a planet thats next closest target was 7-15 hexes away in enemy territory?  Even at the same point value, the main action is already determined.

I think 20 is the answer, 15 might work however, though I'm still skeptical.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Just run the idea through the RMs, whatever is decided is fine, just take my points under consideration.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

One other factor that I want to know more about, what DVs are you thinking for the center planets, the empire planets, empire territory, and neutral space?

Those factors and how they interact may make all of the above items mute or even more important depending.