Topic: Has Dizzy lost his mind? (.67 move cost ship poll)

[FPF-DieHard]

I need input from more people.   I personally think Dizzy is in the worng on this, the fact that anyone thinks CWLs will run amock on a server is lunacy.  The Disengagment rule STILL applies and the hot hexes will be controlled by ships in large fleets.

How many servers did we have in the past where only heavy irons were were points when killed?   The whole general War serioes only gave points for baging BCH and DNs and there was some of the best PvP ever on those servers.   Same with Storm Season II, only BCHs and DNs were worth anything. 

I just want more input from other people.

[GDA-Agave]

No he hasn't.  We should be able to come up with some other way to encourage pilots to fly CL class ships than removing the Pvp points for being killed.  By only attaching PvP points to only larger ships, you are penalizing pilots who prefer to fly the larger ships over the pilots who prefer to fly the smaller ships.   Telling me that if I kill Soreyes in his DF with my Gorn BF/CCH/BCH (which ain't easy sometimes) I'm not going to get any PvP kill points for it, that's just ludicrous.

Saying that, I think we all understand why the bigger capital ships have larger PvP kill points attached.  That's just makes sense. (m'kay  )  More empire resources have been used to create those ships, therefore their loss has more of an inpact.  And those bigger ships typically have the ability to influence an area much more than most CL class ships.

Just my thoughts here.

[Dizzy]

 

[FPF-DieHard]

 Telling me that if I kill Soreyes in his DF with my Gorn BF/CCH/BCH (which ain't easy sometimes) I'm not going to get any PvP kill points for it, that's just ludicrous.

Put down the cheap-ass tequilla.   The DF is a Specialty ship and is worth a point when killed.

This is ONLY line/command ships.  ALL Specialty ships are worth points when killed.

[FPF-DieHard]

Just so eveyone kknwo what we are bickering about . . .






Capital Ships: Battlecruisers, Dreadnoughts, and Battleships:

We will be using the “points at a time system” that was used on AOTK2.   Each side will have 10 Capital ship points that can be fielded at a time (I reserve the right to increase this at any time if the player population suddenly explodes).  Below is the breakdown as to what each ship costs to field:

BCH/BCV:     2 Points
DN:      3 Points
CVA:      4 Points  (includes the F-DVL)
BB:      8 Points
Super BB:   10 Points (B11K)

Battleship activation:  All BBs by default will be restricted.  BBs can be unrestricted at the cost of 10 VC points.  Upgrades to a BB (B11K) can be unlocked for an additional 5 VC points.   Each side will start with 10 VC points in the bank to they will be able to unlock at least 1 BB or they can choose to not spend the points to add to their score.

Maximum X Ships on at the same time:


- Each side gets 3 X points in 2281. This is increased to 6 in 2282.  X points are in addition to capital ship points.
- If you fly an X ship, you must rename your ship adding an 'X' at the end of your ship name.

I-CCX/K-C7X = 6
CCX/CAX's/I-CLX = 3
CLX = 2
FFX and DDX =  Free


PvP Kill VC Points

AOTK3 will be going back to the direct Points for kills system.   Below is the scorecard:

Battleship:     20 Points
CVA/DN/I-CCX:    10 Points
CA X-ship/BCV/BCS:      7 points
BCH:      5 Points
CL X-ship:   3 Points
CA:                1 point (This includes the F-CS/F-CS+)
Specialty ships (regardless of move cost): 1 point
Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost:  0 points.

What this means is fly a D5L, F-CLC, L-CWLp, etc as suicidal as you want without costing your team any points. 

[KBF MalaK]

Having followed this all week (remotely from a log cabin in Alaska on a borrowed Mac) I have to chime in at this point (knowing full well I'm prolly full of something other than coffee),

IMHO all carriers should be classed (at least as a spec ship) a base hull plus 2 points for the fighter squad. ex. a BCV =2, plus 2 more for the fighters = 4 points (the same as a CVA), a BBV =8, plus 2 for the fighters=10 (same as a super BB).
And 10 fleeting points seems a bit low, I figure 17 is about right, and a MAX of 3 active per side at any one time.

all PVP kills of a .67 ship should count as 1 VC kills point for every ship in a players fleet, and every ship below a BCH should be bumped up 1 VC point.

... unless someone really wants to go thru the shiplist and PROPERLY assign these points based on the weapon loadout of some of these 'pocket battleships' (klink DWD).

[FPF-DieHard]

What about this . . .

PvP Kill VC Points

AOTK3 will be going back to the direct Points for kills system.   Below is the scorecard:

Battleship:     20 Points
CVA/DN/I-CCX:    10 Points
CA X-ship/BCV/BCS:      7 points
BCH:      5 Points
CL X-ship:   4 Points
CA:                2 point (This includes the F-CS/F-CS+)
Specialty ships (regardless of move cost): 2 point
Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost:  1 point *

* Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost are worth 0 points with flying solo.

[KBFLordKrueg]

What about this . . .

PvP Kill VC Points

AOTK3 will be going back to the direct Points for kills system.   Below is the scorecard:

Battleship:     20 Points
CVA/DN/I-CCX:    10 Points
CA X-ship/BCV/BCS:      7 points
BCH:      5 Points
CL X-ship:   4 Points
CA:                2 point (This includes the F-CS/F-CS+)
Specialty ships (regardless of move cost): 2 point
Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost:  1 point *

* Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost are worth 0 points with flying solo.

Not bad...
But, this is going to require a list of what's considered a "specialty" ship to avoid any possible controversy later.

[FPF-DieHard]

Not bad...
But, this is going to require a list of what's considered a "specialty" ship to avoid any possible controversy later.

ANYTHING that isn't a Line or a Command Varient. 

[Dfly]

although I did not put it into the poll, I agree that .67 need be worth a point.  Now that DH cleared up his list(see above) that issue seems to be resolved.  I like the new ruling he is willing to put in.

[FSD Warp10]

DH,

    I really like you latest proposal. It gets my vote!

[Capt Jeff]

Not bad...
But, this is going to require a list of what's considered a "specialty" ship to avoid any possible controversy later.

ANYTHING that isn't a Line or a Command Variant. 

Isn't the K-D5D "technically" considered a line ship? 

I like the new suggestion as well.  Go with that.

[Soreyes]

I also like the New suggestion as well.

[Dizzy]

I wonder why people are telling me to go to the looney bin?  It's not like I'm crazy or anything 

DH I dont think people understand your poll. You didnt state my point clearly on what I'm arguing about with ya. And you have since changed your PvP Point system in the middle of this poll which is why I think people are confused. But the important thing is that I think everyone likes the new Points system, me included.

[Dizzy]

Isn't the K-D5D "technically" considered a line ship? 

I like the new suggestion as well.  Go with that.

Haha, ya it is THE line ship for the klinks.

[FPF-DieHard]

Isn't the K-D5D "technically" considered a line ship? 

No, it's not. 

Jackass 

[GDA-Agave]

What about this . . .

PvP Kill VC Points

AOTK3 will be going back to the direct Points for kills system.   Below is the scorecard:

Battleship:     20 Points
CVA/DN/I-CCX:    10 Points
CA X-ship/BCV/BCS:      7 points
BCH:      5 Points
CL X-ship:   4 Points
CA:                2 point (This includes the F-CS/F-CS+)
Specialty ships (regardless of move cost): 2 point
Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost:  1 point *

* Line/Command ships with a lower than 1 move cost are worth 0 points when flying solo.

This additional rule certainly takes care of Dizzy's point about 0 PvP pts against "gang hunters".  It stil leaves the loophole for the sold pilot to kamikaze his ship to get the smaller kill disengagement penalty.  I guess that is another discussion since no one even addressesd my idea earlier about that on the other thread.  I'll try to put up a thread about that soon.

[FPF-DieHard]

This additional rule certainly takes care of Dizzy's point about 0 PvP pts against "gang hunters".  It stil leaves the loophole for the sold pilot to kamikaze his ship to get the smaller kill disengagement penalty.  I guess that is another discussion since no one even addressesd my idea earlier about that on the other thread.  I'll try to put up a thread about that soon.

I know we might actually have people flying solo again!   God forbid people do that!

[Nemesis]

Isn't the K-D5D "technically" considered a line ship? 

I like the new suggestion as well.  Go with that.

Haha, ya it is THE line ship for the klinks.

Clearly not if you read up on it, it is a bombardment ship.  The closest to that would be the K7D which was an experimental ship intended to become a line design.

[FPF-DieHard]

Isn't the K-D5D "technically" considered a line ship? 

I like the new suggestion as well.  Go with that.

Haha, ya it is THE line ship for the klinks.

Clearly not if you read up on it, it is a bombardment ship.  The closest to that would be the K7D which was an experimental ship intended to become a line design.

D7D and the DDW (I think that's the designation, the one with the disrupter and 4 racks) are line ships.

[benbean]

What about a 1 point per pilot VC point but have a modifier, e.g. Ship Movement cost.

So Soreyes in his DF would be 1 x 0.33, but in a MCC it would be 1 x 0.67.


Would that work?

[FPF-DieHard]

What about a 1 point per pilot VC point but have a modifier, e.g. Ship Movement cost.

So Soreyes in his DF would be 1 x 0.33, but in a MCC it would be 1 x 0.67.


Would that work?

I can barely add and subtract.   Fractions are out of the question.

[Dizzy]

Isn't the K-D5D "technically" considered a line ship? 

I like the new suggestion as well.  Go with that.

Haha, ya it is THE line ship for the klinks.

Clearly not if you read up on it, it is a bombardment ship.  The closest to that would be the K7D which was an experimental ship intended to become a line design.

Uhh, Jeff, they don't understand how the D5D is the klinks line ship... hahaha

[Nemesis]

Isn't the K-D5D "technically" considered a line ship? 

I like the new suggestion as well.  Go with that.

Haha, ya it is THE line ship for the klinks.

Clearly not if you read up on it, it is a bombardment ship.  The closest to that would be the K7D which was an experimental ship intended to become a line design.

Uhh, Jeff, they don't understand how the D5D is the klinks line ship... hahaha

If you are only seeing Klingons in D5Ds it is because we are already bombarding your worlds having brushed aside your defenses with line ships.

[GDA-Agave]

This additional rule certainly takes care of Dizzy's point about 0 PvP pts against "gang hunters".  It stil leaves the loophole for the sold pilot to kamikaze his ship to get the smaller kill disengagement penalty.  I guess that is another discussion since no one even addressesd my idea earlier about that on the other thread.  I'll try to put up a thread about that soon.

I know we might actually have people flying solo again!   God forbid people do that!

Bite me!  You know exactly what I mean.   (but I knew you would respond like that)

Most missions on the server are flown solo, it's only in the conflict zones that the tactical "killer groups" are assembled.  I wasn't complaining about your rule addition, but just pointing out the loophole you were leaving.  I do understand that the disengagement rule is another whole another area of discussions which always prove interesting.   

[FPF-DieHard]

This additional rule certainly takes care of Dizzy's point about 0 PvP pts against "gang hunters".  It stil leaves the loophole for the sold pilot to kamikaze his ship to get the smaller kill disengagement penalty.  I guess that is another discussion since no one even addressesd my idea earlier about that on the other thread.  I'll try to put up a thread about that soon.

I know we might actually have people flying solo again!   God forbid people do that!

Bite me!  You know exactly what I mean.   (but I knew you would respond like that)

Most missions on the server are flown solo, it's only in the conflict zones that the tactical "killer groups" are assembled.  I wasn't complaining about your rule addition, but just pointing out the loophole you were leaving.  I do understand that the disengagement rule is another whole another area of discussions which always prove interesting.   

The loophole is intentional

[Farfarer]

How about any ship lost in PvP is worth its movement cost in VPs? 

Or:

 any ship is worth its build cost.  Add 'em all up and divide by 10,000 to convert to Server "VPs".

KISS. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Consider this closed.