Topic: Oscar de la Hoyavs Floyd Mayweather (Superfight or SuperHype?)

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

A rare event is about to happen.   Two highly skilled and talented Boxers are about to fight...each other!

Somebody must have made a mistake.  One of these guys is gonna lose. 

Oscar de la Hoya, Olympic Champion, World Champion, Pound For Pound Best (at one time) and now promoter making a comeback is set to make big bucks against arguably the current best and undefeated pound for pound fighter in the world, Floyd Mayweather.

Now I will tell you I've always liked Oscar.  Despite his critics I always fealt he fought the best fighters that would actually fight him and lord knows there seem to be SO MANY fighters these days, with all the weight classes and all the Organizations, that spend their entire careers AVOIDING and dodging the best fighters around.

But the guy he is up against is better than Felix Trinadad.  At 30 years old at his very peak he has met some of the best people in his weight class without a defeat.  Faster and better defensively than OScar, the fight is Mayweather's to lose.  In the last 5 years we have seen two Dela Hoya weakness exploited by a number of talented figthers...

1)  Punishment to the body
2)  Stamina in the later rounds

Oscar has some advantages of course. First of all OScar has been doing "mega fights" for quite some time.  He is used to the intense spotlight.  Mayweather is not despite his record.  Oscar is the bigger and, (perhaps...although after watching Shane Mosely chase the larger dela Hoya around I'm not so sure) stronger man. And he's smart.  Oscar has always been a smart fighter.

The last advantage is that Trinadad will be fighting at 147+, a weight he has never fought at.  Now this could be a big problem or work just the opposite.  When some fighters go up in weight sometimes they gain power and sometimes they lose it.  It depends.  If he gains power though perhaps Dela Hoya might bew at a disadvantage. 

So grab the beers and popcorn and

Let's Get Ready To Rumble!!!!!!!

I hope it lives up to its billing.

[Sirgod]

Did you order it? Hell I could afford a bus ticket to your place for alot less then what it costs out here on PPV.

Seriously, I hope I can find this fight online later, I'm looking forward to it, more so then I have in many years.

Stephen

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Did you order it? Hell I could afford a bus ticket to your place for alot less then what it costs out here on PPV.

Seriously, I hope I can find this fight online later, I'm looking forward to it, more so then I have in many years.

Stephen

Its too bad I cant transfer the digital recording I'm making of it.  I got all the Pacchio fights.  I'll record this one but not sure if it can be ported out.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Anyway I find the Time magazine article to be full of poop.

Will the De La Hoya-Mayweather Fight Save Boxing?

Apparently picked up from some Golden Boy promoters hypey comment...

"This could be the night that saves boxing," says Richard Schaefer, CEO of De La Hoya's company, Golden Boy Promotions, which is staging the clash.

Boxing needs something to rescue it from years of disorganization. There are now 17 weight divisions, none with a unified champ among the sport's four sanctioning bodies. Scandalous match decisions have worn out boxing's aging base and turned off younger fans. Though the sport's migration to pay-per-view television has enriched fighters, it has cut off the sport's access to a broader audience.

This morass has fueled the stunning ascension of mixed martial arts and the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC). Though derided as "human cockfighting," the UFC feeds the video-game bloodlust of young fans and has ripped market share from the sweet science. "If boxing were a stock," says veteran boxing historian and television commentator Bert Sugar, "I'd sell it short."

After reading it I can't help thinking the article is one of those trendy columns passing off popular wisdom as such.  When has boxing ever in need of saving or for that matter ever NOT on the ropes?  Think about it.  120 years ago championships  were fought on barges a and belts were awarded (if there was a belt at all) a few steps ahead of the police, sometimes forced to jump ship near exhausted to escape the cops from grabbing the proceeds.

And the "golden age of boxing", did that ever happen?   Some people who remember or were told by those who do might recall that Jack Dempsey wasn't all that universally liked.  They called him a "slacker" and many wanted to see him crushed by Gene Tunney because he served as a marine.  The Dempsey Cartpentier match sometimes called the "fight of the century" pitted Dempsey, a true heavyweight, against a guy who was barely a light heavyweight.

Called the "battle of the century" by boxing enthusiasts, the fight between Jack Dempsey and Frenchman Georges Carpentier at Boyle's Thirty Acres was an extravaganza that introduced sports as leisure for the masses at the beginning of the 1920s.

The contest for the heavyweight championship took place on the overcast, humid Saturday afternoon of July 2, 1921, and was scheduled for 3:00 PM.  Randy Roberts, author of Jack Dempsey: The Manassa Mauler, places the historic fight in the cultural perspective of the post-World War I era: "In an age where man seemed to be guided by amoral forces beyond his control, the Dempsey-Carpentier fight represented man as master of his fate" (119). 

The official attendance for the fight was 80,183, but by all accounts the stands built for over 91,000 were packed to capacity. Roberts reports that "the fight grossed $1,789,238, well over twice as much as any previous fight" (120).

45 years later they were calling Muhammad Ali a "draft dodger" and many writers  bemoaned the lack of talent in the Heavyweight ranks and the lack of excitement in the lower weight classes.  Twenty years later some of the same people said Larry Holmes was a poor man's Muhammad Ali and said he fought in his shadow, apparently the "draf dodger" had ascended to the greatest just like Jack Dempsey (who fought a mega fight against a guy.  During Joe Louis's reign they called his opponents "Bums of the Month" and made the same pitch.  And in the 1950's  the mob moved in briefly and fixed all kinds of fights as well as they did in the 1930's, including the Heavyweight Title (Primo Canara). 

Say, and lets not forgot old Jack Johnson, who had to fight in places like Australia and Europe until the police finally nabbed him for violation of the "Man Act"...roughly translated as "foolin with the wrong women".  That era was also called the "no-decision" era because many bouts weren't sanctioned to have a winner...duh.  I wonder who you had to pay off to be allowed to declare a winner?

Yeah, here we go again.  Boxing needs to be "saved".

A bit of the old hype if you ask me bro.  Although I think the skills of these two fighters are real.

======================================

Just to back up my bit about Dempsey...

But he was "labeled as draft dodger" (Roberts 112) during World War I.  Dempsey applied for a domestic exemption to support his family, was granted 4A status, and continued to fight during the war. Carpentier, or the "Orchid Man," was hailed as a popular war hero having served in the air force; he received the Croix de Guerre from the French government and was referred to as "handsome, urbane, slender, and debonair" (Roberts 103).

Not only did Rickard under stand the psychology of the use of money, he also was a master of dramatic symbolism.  The people sought to attract to boxing were not particularly lovers of a good fight, but rather men and women, especially wealthy ones, who were interested in the drama inherent in a battle of contrasts . . . . Never would the issue and symbols be so simple and so devastating." (Roberts 109)
http://www.njcu.edu/Programs/jchistory/Pages/D_Pages/Dempsey_Carpentier_Fight.htm

Dempsey creamed him in 11 minutes.  So much for the "golden age" of boxing.
====================================

In other words Rickard tried to pair Dempsey up with vets whenever he could because Dempsey was "the bad guy".  Not the good guy.  The people that went to Dempsey's fights were ALL wealthy...but that didn't "cut off the sport's access to a broader audience" as Time magazine states.  As a matter of fact, witht he rise of the small Indian Casinos boxing is alive and well.

[Grim]

I am considering staying up to watch it.

It should be a good fight, and i am hoping that de la Hoya will win. If Mayfeather uses his speed and quickness Mayfeather i think will have a chance to win, if he tries to slug it out with de la Hoya he could take a beating. Oscar is a clever and experienced fighter and will have a gameplan, take the speed issue which he has struggled with in the past in particular aginst Shane Mosley, what has Oscar done to prepare for the speed of Mayweather? have Shane Mosley as a sparring partner in preperation for the fight, lol.

Overall both are great boxers, and i reckon it could be close. Being a de la Hoya fan i would love to see him win, whether thats the case on the night we will have to wait and see.

[Electric Eye]

I do not particularly care for boxing, but after reading both bio's and finding out the hype the marketers want to present, I'm rooting for Mayweather.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2007/04/29/2007-04-29_stormy_mayweather.html

It would really bring down the spirits of those thas are shoving Cinco de Mayo down our throats nowadays. 

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Well as expected Mayweather won.  Split decision.  I gave to Mayweather 116-112.   He's a defensive wiz basically with uncanny hand speed.  BUT he don't throw more than o punch at a time.  Never hurt Oscar at all, never cut him.  Oscar stopped using his jab around 7 or 8 round and thats when Mayweather pulled away.  Oscars jab was setting up his attack and pushing Mayweather intot he ropes where Oscar was able to score.

I wouldn't fight him again if I were Oscar.  He had the wrong corner.  Freddy Roach did not keep him on his game.  Roger mayweather, Oscars true trainer, was sitting in the stands and Roger keeps Oscar using that jab.

O well.  No biggy here.

As for cinco de mayo I like it.  Always like a party.  Nobody ever shoved it down my throat any more than I ever felt someone shoved Octoberfest down my throat.  The Italians used to celebrate it in NY all the time.  Lots of zeppola's....hehe a rather sinful desert.

[Sirgod]

A friend of mine who is a boxing fan wrote this review, I have got to find the fight and stream it online somewhere.

Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather Jr. I was pleased by this fight. I honestly was happy with what I got. Both fighters put on a great show. Both showed their skill and talent. Although many people may be upset at the pace, that to the casual fan's eye, it wasn't exciting enough because they weren't throwing bombs at each other. Although they might be right, any true fan of the sport should appreciate what we got and should be satisfied.

Now, on a more thorough analysis of the fight. We saw early in the fight what Oscar wanted to do. From the outset, he wanted to press Floyd to the ropes and cut off his speed and once then, he'd go to his body to tire him out. From the first round and throughout the fight, Oscar would go after Floyd's midsection. Not exactly connecting, but he was doing what he wanted to do. It was a little harder to gauge what Floyd's strategy was because that's what he was doing. He wanted to let Oscar work and get tired, as he's done in previous fights. Once he's tired, Floyd's speed would take over and pile up the rounds. I doubt he seriously came in figuring he was going to knock Oscar out. He knew he had to be quick to the punch and beat him by points.

As the fight went on, it got hard to score, particularly early through the middle. Oscar was throwing more punches and throwing them in punches, but Floyd, being Floyd picked his shots and was awefully accurate with his punches. So, by those standards, it wouldn't be easy for a judge to judge it. If they wanted to see an active fighter, they might have paid attention to Oscar. If they wanted to score clean shots they'd pick up on Floyd. It was touch and go and a boxer's battle from about the 1st to the 8th.

One thing I did notice with both fighter's ultimate strategy is the overall ineffectiveness of each. Admittedly, both came in with solid gameplans, which were well scouted. Oscar looked at Floyd's fights and the only fight he's had that was anywhere near close out of his 37 was his second fight against Jose Luis Castillo. Castillo was a bigger and stronger fighter like De La Hoya. His plan was to attack the body and the fight was close because of that. Floyd had trouble countering that. If he'd attack, Castillo would take to the body. That was Oscar's plan and it was clear from the start. The problem, is that Floyd, true to how it's always been with him, would not tire. By the 8th and 9th rounds, it was clear Oscar's going to the body strategy was foiled and he needed a knockdown, at least. As for Floyd, he paid attention to Oscar's fights against Quartey, Vargas, Trinidad, Whitaker, Hopkins and others where Oscar's stamina was key in those fights being as close or contested as they were. Floyd knew Oscar was going to bring him a fight and in doing so, tire. He'd knew later that he'd be able to pick cleaner shots against Oscar later on as well. Although his shots weren't as clean early, later they were more effective, but Oscar's stamina wasn't more of the problem as the fact that Floyd simply doesn't tire. That was a major difference in the fight. Okay, Oscar wasn't as crisp as he was early on, but Floyd was as crisp as he was in the 12th as he was in the 1st.

One thing I noticed about Oscar, and the commentators and his promotion partner Bernard Hopkins noticed is Floyd's vulnerability against Oscar's jab. Early on Oscar was concerned about attacking Floyd's body. By the sixt and 7th rounds, Oscar started to use a jab. I honestly believe he didn't think he'd be able to catch Floyd with his jab and that's why he didn't use it at first. But when he started to use it, Floyd had trouble answering. He would get caught. It allow Oscar to set up more punches and the best part, it kept Floyd on a defensive stance, which meant he's not throwing punches, which means he's not hitting you, which means you're winning. Inexplicibly, Oscar ceased to use his jab about from the 9th round on and ultimately, I believe that's what did him in. The moment he stopped using the jab, Floyd relaxed and started to give him his steady, inhumanly quick popshots, that he's capable of doing well. If De La Hoya would have kept with his jab as Hopkins, Manny Stewart, Lampley and others recognized, I'm certain the fight would have had a different outcome. His excuse was tonight wasn't the night for jabs. I'm sorry that's no excuse. I'll have to review the tape to see if Freddie Roach caught on to it as well. He probably didn't and with Oscars steadfast ability to listen to his corner, he didn't continue with it, didn't know the effect it was actually having. But clearly it did it's job. Look at Floyd Mayweather's face. His right eye was a little mousey. His right cheek was red and shining up. It had wear and you can't deny that.

Ultimately, I mistakenly gave the last round to De La Hoya looking at Lederman's card, but the last round was awefully like the previous few. Floyd was steady with his popshots and what's more, he was avoiding Oscar like Oscar had the stench of dingy wet drawls on him and it helped him. Oscar had a hard time landing clean shots in the second half of the fight and it was even more evident once Floyd started moving. But like I said, a lot of the rounds weren't easy to score. It, in my opinion, wasn't a complete one-sided domination like most of Floyd's fights. Actually, it was the closest fight of his career. Oscar had a good showing. He showed that he's able to fight still and Floyd Mayweather, someone who was supposed to win, who everyone knew was the quicker, and better fighter, Oscar made it hard for him. As for Floyd, many call him arrogant and brash and wantnot, but frankly, he's actually earned that right. He knows he is the best and he's not afraid to say it. Not to mention, he knows, as well as Oscar what's at steak. It's a big fight, the biggest draw the sport has had in at least 10 years. Early on, he said you have to have a good guy and a bad guy and he chosen to be the bad guy. But he still is about the sport. He knew Oscar gave him a good fight and he knew Oscar was going to give him a good fight. He respected Oscar's skill and talent as well. Why else would he even admit to be pining after this fight for years. Because he knew Oscar was the man. And he wanted to prove himself. What better way. Although, everyone assume Oscar was and is on his way out and Floyd says he's done, no one's convinced on either account. I doubt Oscar wants to finish his career in a loss and I doubt Floyd can stay away from a payday's offer... Especially if Miguel Cotto beats Zab Judah, he'll definitely want Mayweather and I think he should get him. Castillo and Oscar were working on similar strategies that even I have to admit Cotto's the best at right now, attacking the body. As for Oscar, although a rematch is not called for, it's not out of the question, nor should it be argued against. Again, ala Roy Jones Jr., he doesn't want to end his career in a loss. He might step down and fight Baldomir, Judah, Spinks or if he's really crazy Wright. There are plenty of fights that are good competition that will give him a solid payday and fighting like he did tonight he'd show well and possibly beat.

However, as for tonight... My official socrecard reveals:

Oscar De La Hoya - Floyd Mayweather Jr.

9 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 9
9 - 10
9 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 9
10 - 9
9 - 10
9 - 10
9 - 10
9 - 10

113 - 115, Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Stephen

[Electric Eye]

Kudos for Mayweather, at least when he talks the talk, he walks it as well, unlike Owens of the Dallas cowgirls. 

[Sirgod]

Diego "Chico" Corrales, who won titles in two weight classes and was involved in one of the most memorable fights in recent times, died Monday in a motorcycle accident, his promoter said. He was 29.Diego Corrales celebrates winning the WBC lightweight crown by a 10th-round knockout over Jose Luis Castillo in May 2005. Corrales died Monday at age 29.


Gary Shaw said Corrales was driving his motorcycle at a high rate of speed when he ran into the back of a car about 10 miles west of the Las Vegas Strip on Monday night.

"He's laying there as we speak with a helmet on his head under a sheet," Shaw said. "It appears he was thrown a great distance."

Shaw said Corrales, whose career had faltered in recent fights, had recently bought a racing motorcycle, which he was apparently riding at the time he was killed.

"He fought recklessly and he lived recklessly," Shaw said. "That was his style."

Las Vegas police spokesman Jose Montoya said the victim in the accident was wearing a helmet, and it was not known if drugs or alcohol was involved.

"No tests have been done. We're still investigating," Montoya said.

The lanky Corrales, who stood 5-10 1/2 but fought most of his career at 130 pounds, was a big puncher best known for getting up after two 10th-round knockdowns to stop Jose Luis Castillo in one of the most thrilling fights ever.

The fight took place May 7, 2005, exactly two years from the night he died. It was named by the Boxing Writers Association of America and numerous boxing publications as the fight of the year.

Corrales, though, was knocked out by Castillo in the rematch and lost a big payday when he failed to make weight for his next fight. He lost his last three fights, including his last fight on April 7 against Joshua Clottey in Springfield, Mo. He had moved up two weight divisions to welterweight for that fight, but dropped a decision.

Corrales, who was born in Sacramento, Ca., but lived in Las Vegas in recent years, was a big puncher who won his first 33 fights and held a piece of the 130-pound title before he was stopped by Floyd Mayweather Jr. in a unification fight in January 2001.

Corrales was sent to jail on a domestic abuse charge after that fight, and didn't fight again for two years. He came back to fight a trilogy against Joel Casamayor, losing two of the three fights, and split a pair of fights with Castillo.

After failing to make weight and then losing in the ring to Casamayor in a lightweight fight last October, Corrales made the unusual step of moving up two weight classes to fight Clottey. He was knocked down in the ninth and tenth rounds and lost a unanimous decision.

"He always cared about the fans and gave them their money's worth," Shaw said. "He was a true warrior. He was what boxing stood for, and what boxing is all about."
__________________

Stephen

[Grim]

In Regards to the De La Hoya v Mayweather fight, it wasn't imo a great fight to watch. Mayweather showed his speed and his defensive guile and as like Rondo said he didn't throw that many punches, just kept bobbing in and out. Neither guys looked really hurt, Rondo again spot on on the Jab, if De La Hoya had a chance of winning the fight he had to use his great jab, but he didn't from 7th/8th round onwards.

In terms of the future i can't see Mayweather retiring, Oscar on the other hand has done it all and may feel its time to hang up his gloves. I think a rematch would be a bad move for Oscar if he decides to continue boxing.

In terms of Diego Corrales,, very sad news indeed. A fantastic fighter who entertained the crowd. The fight against Castillo was an aboslute slugfest and one of the best fights in recent years.

RIP Chico, you will be missed

[Electric Eye]

I think there will be a rematch, it's too golden an opportunity for both of them.

De La Hoya got his face shoved in the dirt at the ring when Mayweather showed up in Mexican colored shorts and wearing a sombrero, an obvious stab at Mexico and at Cinco De Mayo.    De La Hoya is also into business investments (I'll give him credit there, as boxing is not too safe to stay in careerwise) and a rematch would pay him big bucks even if he lost.

Mayweather will not be able to let his ego slide, and will want to tell the De La Hoya fans to STFU as to who is best once and for all if he gets a rematch and pounds De La Hoya really good.

Me thinks there will be a rematch.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Agreed.  I see no rematch but you never know. 

Boxing has its share of tragedies. 

[Fedman NCC-3758]

::sigh::

Boxing isn't what it was.  Intense drama coupled with a fierce physical struggle.  With an eventual stunning turn of events.  A roundhouse blow to the jaw.  A breath taking body blow.  A decisive, rapid fire combination.  Biting off a chunk of your opponents ear then coming back for seconds.

Those were the days.  No mas, no mas.

::sigh::

[Electric Eye]

Biting off a chunk of your opponents ear then coming back for seconds.