Topic: AOTK3: Legendary Crews

[FPF-DieHard]

The SCC (Supreme Coalition Commander) and the HKIC (Head Kitty in Charge) will each get one, but what should be needed for other players to obtain this?

I think we set the bar so high on SGO7 (15 kills in a line/command ship with no deaths) that nobody even tried for this status.  I like the idea as it promotes non-specilaty ship usuage and it give me more crap to steal from SFB.  I'm open to suggestions as to how/if this should be implemented. 

Should we simply lower the number of kills?  Perhaps 10 would be enough for a 30 day server?

[KBFLordKrueg]

I'd still simply like to see Empire RMs get one as well.
Perhaps it'll encourage more to take up the reins of leadership. 

[FPF-DieHard]

I'd still simply like to see Empire RMs get one as well.
Perhaps it'll encourage more to take up the reins of leadership. 

Empire RMs?   What are those? 

[Dizzy]

I'd still simply like to see Empire RMs get one as well.
Perhaps it'll encourage more to take up the reins of leadership. 

Empire RMs?   What are those? 

We dont need no steenkin Empire RM's!

[FPF-DieHard]

I'd still simply like to see Empire RMs get one as well.
Perhaps it'll encourage more to take up the reins of leadership. 

Empire RMs?   What are those? 

We dont need no steenkin Empire RM's!

Empire RMs is like so 2005.   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I'd suggest that anyone who kills 3 foes in a lineship should get the legenday crew for that particular lineship (although I think upgrades and refits to the hull would count as the same ship, for example FF to a FF+ to a FFR as these can be considered the same ship)  This would be 3 solo kills or enough kills with wings to add up to 3.  A kill with 1 wing would only be worth 1/2 a kill and with 2 wings 1/3rd.

A lineship with a legendary crew wont be so much better than a command varient without one so shouldn't tilt the scales much.  The much lower total will also promote flying line ships.

Then if 6 kills (using the formula above) were managed in this legendary ship without it going boom first, the crew is upgraded to the command cruiser varient or smaller command varient if desired. as a reward from the hig command.

I like this system for 3 reasons.

#1 it promotes lineship flying.

#2 it allows for legendary crews in ships smaller than command cruisers.

#3 it lowers the number of kills required, but makes them a little tougher to pull off intitially, then a bit easier afterwards, simulating the learning curb of the crew as it gets more skilled and thus having a tiny roleplay aspect added.

[Dizzy]

10

[KBF-Crim]

I agree with Chuut

[FPF-DieHard]

Chuut, that is WAY too complicated and convoluted.  I am NOT under any circumstances making any more varients than what already exists.

It was 5 Kills to be an Ace in WWII, is that too low?  

Perhaps 5 SOLO kills?  I've been bitchin that you can't get enough solo action on servers these days, maybe solo kills in a CC will encourage people to fly solo?

[KBFLordKrueg]

Make jokes...poke fun...go ahead...
But, having organization and keeping your side focused on goals and objectives is how you win a server.
One person is incapable of that alone.
Without RMs on when the SC isn't keeps the momentum, spirits up and keeps players someting to drive for, enhancing their experience playing, maybe even making them want to return for the next one.
Having player flounder without direction leads to confusion and disheartend players when they can't seem to accomplish anything.
Being an RM is usually a thankless job since everyone congratulates the SC, even if the RMs came up with most of the ideas and presented them to the SC, therefore they are perceived as his own.
SGO7 wouldn't have gone nearly as well if I didn't have 4-5 others guys helping direct players logging on to targets, updating OPs threads with events going on during their "shift" and such.
IMOHPO they deserve a reward for their efforts other than just a pat on the back.  
It might even prove easier to fill those postions on both sides if they thought they got a perk or two for it.
We'll just have to make sure they earn those perks.  

[Dizzy]

Having player flounder without direction leads to confusion and disheartend players when they can't seem to accomplish anything.

Ahhh, no wonder the Alliance lost...    ::throws Hexx under the bus::

RM's are important. Maybe you should loan some of yours to the Alliance?

[FPF-DieHard]

Make jokes...poke fun...go ahead...
But, having organization and keeping your side focused on goals and objectives is how you win a server.
One person is incapable of that alone.
Without RMs on when the SC isn't keeps the momentum, spirits up and keeps players someting to drive for, enhancing their experience playing, maybe even making them want to return for the next one.
Having player flounder without direction leads to confusion and disheartend players when they can't seem to accomplish anything.
Being an RM is usually a thankless job since everyone congratulates the SC, even if the RMs came up with most of the ideas and presented them to the SC, therefore they are perceived as his own.
SGO7 wouldn't have gone nearly as well if I didn't have 4-5 others guys helping direct players logging on to targets, updating OPs threads with events going on during their "shift" and such.
IMOHPO they deserve a reward for their efforts other than just a pat on the back.  
It might even prove easier to fill those postions on both sides if they thought they got a perk or two for it.
We'll just have to make sure they earn those perks.  

Not saying sub-commander don't make sense, but I think it's kind of hysterical seeing a race RM and 2 ARMs for each races when we can barely get 20 people on a server these days

[KBFLordKrueg]

LOL...well...I usually settle for just a RM. I had 1 ARM for all of the races on SGO7.
I also strive to make sure those RMs are in varied time zones or gaming times, getting pilots with leaderships skills on more often during a 24 hour time period.

[FPF-DieHard]

LOL...well...I usually settle for just a RM. I had 1 ARM for all of the races on SGO7.
I also strive to make sure those RMs are in varied time zones or gaming times, getting pilots with leaderships skills on more often during a 24 hour time period.

RM = Racial Moderator which isn't really what we need to call the LTs these days.   We need a new title . . .

How about "Capo?"  Duck will get the joke.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chuut, that is WAY too complicated and convoluted.  I am NOT under any circumstances making any more varients than what already exists.

It was 5 Kills to be an Ace in WWII, is that too low?  

Perhaps 5 SOLO kills?  I've been bitchin that you can't get enough solo action on servers these days, maybe solo kills in a CC will encourage people to fly solo?

Well if its too much work thats fine. Most people would choose the Command Cruiser anyhow, I'm probably the only one who wouldn't preferring a legendary Z-DD or Z-MCC.

However, I dont think you should limit the kill totals to Command cruiser kills, I think that any line ship kills should be counted as well.  The crew of a line ship that makes a kill is far more impressive in my book than one who does so in a Command Cruiser.


As for the issue of Race RMs, I am against giving them legendary ships at the start, I think they should earn them like any other player.  If you want to give them something, maybe an extra 2,000 starting prestige in the race they are RM for, but I don't even think that is necessary unless we all start in light cruisers or frigates like in the old days.

[FPF-DieHard]

. . . unless we all start in light cruisers or frigates like in the old days.

Hmmmm . . . 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

How about "Capo?"  Duck will get the joke.

"Capo" would apply to some, but for others (myself included) I think "Consigliere" fits better.

[GDA-Agave]

A kill with 1 wing would only be worth 1/2 a kill and with 2 wings 1/3rd.

This agree with.  Otherwise, I think it should be 5 kills to get a legendary crew.  5 kills is enough to make this special, but not too high.

As for the ship the "ace" would get, I think it should be pre-determined by the admins and SC(and/or RMs) depending on era.   For example, if a Klingon becomes an ace in early era, he would get ship X.  If he became an ace in mid-era, he get ship Y.  Now, to make this work, an ace from the early era would be able to upgrade his ship X to ship Y once mid-era starts.  This would also occur during the change from mid to late era as well.  So, you can setup line ships, command ships, whatever, as long as it is balanced across the board, AND everyone will know PRIOR to the server starting what they will get.  These things are best hammered out before a server starts, NOT DURING.

The admins could setup these special ships before the server instead of having to adjust different ships for different people. 

How's that.

AGAVE

PS.  Krueg, the system of assistant RMs still works just because it clearly communicated the line of command to the troops, but it can be setup however you like, it doesn't have to been based on empires.  Shift commanders, Fleet commanders, objective commanders, etc., all fit this bill.  Some players like to contribute more by planning objectives and strategizing than by their piloting skills.   It is an idea to promote good morale more than anything else.   

[GDA-Agave]

Two more quick notes from additional posts that have appeared.

A line ship should count for a kill, just as any other ship.

I agree with Chuut when he says he think the legendary crew ship should be a line ship.  If you really want to promote line ships as much as you guys have been doing over the past few months, I can't think of a better way to do it than this.

Here's my thinking.  Do you think a player would gain more respect by flying and winning matches with a legendary crew line ship or a command/fast cruiser/carrier variant?  And isn't respect from fellow players what the "ace" status would be about anyway?

AGAVE

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

If command variants kills are counted, 5 seems way too low to me, I'd say 10, but would not be adverse to giving double credit for kills made with purely vanilla ships, Command varient kills are much easier and shouldn't be set so low as 5 IMHO.

[Riskyllama]

Here's my thinking.  Do you think a player would gain more respect by flying and winning matches with a legendary crew line ship or a command/fast cruiser/carrier variant?  And isn't respect from fellow players what the "ace" status would be about anyway?

I think Ii barely got 5 in a row in my CC and i was shooting for the legendary ship. If you can pull it off in a line ship, you're a better pilot than me, although i never see gorn out of their BF anyways.
As fo chuut's suggestions, I've looked at the ship list, legendary command ships for all races are in there already done and take up a bit of space, what happens when you add every single line ship progression path.

[KBFLordKrueg]

How about 10 Kills in a non-capitol, non-carrier, non-X ship?
Without dying, of course. 
Then they get a Leg CC...

[Dizzy]

10

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Do "aces" really need special ships anyhow?  Isn't it the newer and less skilled pvp players that would best be served by these ships anyway?  Giving a guy who has already proven himself an ace doesn't seem to make for the best matchups IMHO.


Here is an alternate proposal.  

2 legendary ships on a side at one time (3 if the overall commander is flying one as it doesn't count toward the total).  These ships cannot be flown by a veteran which could be defined as a player who has either more than 5 dyna servers experience, or 5 poits worth of kills on this server.  Once you start making an impact on the kill list your "newbie" status is revoked.

This gives the newer players a better chance of helping their side and presenting an even better fight to experienced veterans.  Giving the aces the ships only makes them less likely to be able to do so.  Some aces might find fun in killing the players in Legendary ships, but not exactly what I'd call sporting, even though I can't blame them for using the best tools at their dispossal.  Lets give the "newbies" the tools to make it a better fight.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Do "aces" really need special ships anyhow?  Isn't it the newer and less skilled pvp players that would best be served by these ships anyway?  Giving a guy who has already proven himself an ace doesn't seem to make for the best matchups IMHO.


Here is an alternate proposal.  

2 legendary ships on a side at one time (3 if the overall commander is flying one as it doesn't count toward the total).  These ships cannot be flown by a veteran which could be defined as a player who has either more than 5 dyna servers experience, or 5 poits worth of kills on this server.  Once you start making an impact on the kill list your "newbie" status is revoked.

This gives the newer players a better chance of helping their side and presenting an even better fight to experienced veterans.  Giving the aces the ships only makes them less likely to be able to do so.  Some aces might find fun in killing the players in Legendary ships, but not exactly what I'd call sporting, even though I can't blame them for using the best tools at their dispossal.  Lets give the "newbies" the tools to make it a better fight.

I understand where you're coming from on this Chutt, but, I do feel this ships need to be earned in some way as opposed to handed out.
And limiting the legendary crewed ships to CC gives anyone with an equal or bigger chance just as good of a chance to kill it.
And, after having flown these ships for 2 servers now, I can tell you this.
They ain't all that and a bag of chips...OK?
They turn better, have a little more power and some other stuff.
But, it doesn't make you take less damage.
You don't get better shields.
It doesn't make your weapons hit more.
It does make some of the more familiar ships a little more fun to fly. But they become quickly outclassed as the Heavy Iron ships come out as the years progress.
If it's handling CnC responsibilities or getting successive Kills, they should still be used as a "Reward" instead of "Who wants one?"
IMOHPO

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I understand where you're coming from on this Chutt, but, I do feel this ships need to be earned in some way as opposed to handed out.

I think my point has merit as does yours, I just think mine better for bringing in new players, something we need more than rewards for aces at this juncture.

And limiting the legendary crewed ships to CC gives anyone with an equal or bigger chance just as good of a chance to kill it.

Not true, having the extra benefits makes it harder to kill, if even marginally so.

And, after having flown these ships for 2 servers now, I can tell you this.
They ain't all that and a bag of chips...OK?
They turn better, have a little more power and some other stuff.

I agree, but they are marginally better.

But, it doesn't make you take less damage.
You don't get better shields.

They get more labs which mean better shield regeneration and potentially less damage gets through.

It doesn't make your weapons hit more.

Not necessarily, more power allows you to arm easier/faster, and to close range more effectively. a better turn mode also allows for better shot and more hits and/or more effective hits.

It does make some of the more familiar ships a little more fun to fly. But they become quickly outclassed as the Heavy Iron ships come out as the years progress.

Agreed.

If it's handling CnC responsibilities or getting successive Kills, they should still be used as a "Reward" instead of "Who wants one?"
IMOHPO

Agree in regard to the CnC duties but disagree as to the sucessive kills.  The VCs or PvP point totals are enough reward for kills, and far more important than a legendary ship.

I think efforts to allow newer player to be more competitive in PvP or have a bit more fun in their fights with ai is of greater benefit than an extra perk even if hard earned.  I see where your coming from but I disagree as to the priorities.

[FPF-DieHard]

Do "aces" really need special ships anyhow?  Isn't it the newer and less skilled pvp players that would best be served by these ships anyway?  Giving a guy who has already proven himself an ace doesn't seem to make for the best matchups IMHO.


Here is an alternate proposal. 

2 legendary ships on a side at one time (3 if the overall commander is flying one as it doesn't count toward the total).  These ships cannot be flown by a veteran which could be defined as a player who has either more than 5 dyna servers experience, or 5 poits worth of kills on this server.  Once you start making an impact on the kill list your "newbie" status is revoked.

This gives the newer players a better chance of helping their side and presenting an even better fight to experienced veterans.  Giving the aces the ships only makes them less likely to be able to do so.  Some aces might find fun in killing the players in Legendary ships, but not exactly what I'd call sporting, even though I can't blame them for using the best tools at their dispossal.  Lets give the "newbies" the tools to make it a better fight.

No

[FPF-DieHard]

It's looking like the same rule from SGO7 but with the kill threshold lowered to 10 from 15.   Every other alternatiive proposal has been retarted and over complicated.  Honestly, making it for sale for makes more sense.

The SCC and the HKIC will get one at server startup, MAYBE one more per side to be given out to a "Champion" or whatever.

Also, anyone willing to pay me $50 will get one

[Lepton]

I know this will probably be unpopular but I don't think we should have any legendary officers and especially not for PvP victory counts.  Why do we need to reward people who have sufficient skills in PvPs to meet this ace criteria with a ship that will make it easier for them to win more PvP battles?  Makes very little sense to me.  Frankly, if I were one of these aces, I wouldn't want this help.

I have consistently advocated that we put in place things that will level the playing field among PvPs.  I can't think of anything that would upset that balance more than giving people who are proficient in PvP some kind of further advantage over the rest of us.  If you'd like to reward these folks, give them some sort of public recognition and for every pilot that meets this ace status, give that side some VC points or an additional amount of PvP points for his or her side that could count toward VC points.

I really think it is bassackwards to reward those skilled with something that is going to give them more of an advantage.  Recognize them publicly and give them some more points for it.  That would be my suggestion.

[FPF-DieHard]

I know this will probably be unpopular but I don't think we should have any legendary officers and especially not for PvP victory counts.  Why do we need to reward people who have sufficient skills in PvPs to meet this ace criteria with a ship that will make it easier for them to win more PvP battles?  Makes very little sense to me.  Frankly, if I were one of these aces, I wouldn't want this help.

I have consistently advocated that we put in place things that will level the playing field among PvPs.  I can't think of anything that would upset that balance more than giving people who are proficient in PvP some kind of further advantage over the rest of us.  If you'd like to reward these folks, give them some sort of public recognition and for every pilot that meets this ace status, give that side some VC points or an additional amount of PvP points for his or her side that could count toward VC points.

I really think it is bassackwards to reward those skilled with something that is going to give them more of an advantage.  Recognize them publicly and give them some more points for it.  That would be my suggestion.

It's the "carrot" to get people to fly line ships and a little bit of Candy for the Leaders of each side.   That's pretty much about it.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

It's looking like the same rule from SGO7 but with the kill threshold lowered to 10 from 15.   Every other alternatiive proposal has been retarted and over complicated. 

Hey you admined the GW series and its CnC and you call someone else's idea retarded and overcomplicated.   

I think you won gold at the Special Olympics for some of those  

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

It's the "carrot" to get people to fly line ships and a little bit of Candy for the Leaders of each side.   That's pretty much about it.

Not much of a carrot unless you discount Command Cruiser kills, people who fly those would be flying them anyway for the most part.

Can't say that I've seen a server where certain Command Cruisers weren't a ship of choice for much of the player base during early and mid eras. 

Now if you make it line ship kills only that count, that is another matter entirely and it would be a carrot.

[FPF-DieHard]

It's looking like the same rule from SGO7 but with the kill threshold lowered to 10 from 15.   Every other alternatiive proposal has been retarted and over complicated.

Hey you admined the GW series and its CnC and you call someone else's idea retarded and overcomplicated.   

I think you won gold at the Special Olympics for some of those  

And we've stopped that, you're trying to add a  level of complication with everything your propose on every issue.  And people wonder why the DIP failed.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

And we've stopped that, you're trying to add a  level of complication with everything your propose on every issue.  And people wonder why the DIP failed.

I throw ideas out, some apropriate, some not, some totally hairbrained.  You have to take the good with the bad and hopefully choose the good.  Better than not posting anything I think.   

If you used an idea that didn't work well on a server and I suggested it, I'll take the blame then.   

In some areas,  my ideas are more complicated, and I can certainly understand not being willing to go with them for that reason,  but in others I'm sure they are more simple, you just have to pick and choose as you see fit.   

Of course the simplier idea in regard to the legendary ships is to simply limit them to the overall commander on each side.  No need to make additional edits, no need to keep track of kills, etc.  You could even dispense with them altogether but I think the top guy deserves some reward. 

As for the DIP failure, the main reason was that noone did any work or playtesting in most of the departments, however my section of it did, and was the only one that ever got any ideas that made it into the D2 Campaigns we fly today.  But the main kudos go to Evil Dave and Corbomite regarding those.


Oh and here are some remarks about some of my recent ideas:


"a reasonable suggestion for another thread"

"Very good point, a CVA and 2 CVD is illegal as hell but can be used very effectively to crack any starbase in half.   Your above sugesstion is makes sense."
 
"I can agree to this.  I prefer the DNL anyway"

and verbally

"not a bad idea, just don't know exactly what the Gorn need, just something......"


Come on DH, admit it, you know you love me, in a love/hate sort of way.   

just sift through the bad for what you can use. Don't make me bring S'Trupaul out of retirement White Boy!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Now here is a BRILLIANT idea:

How about we institute a "subpar" crew for Hexx due to him missing the last server if he returns for this one.   

Oh wait....  thats kinda redundant isn't it.   

[KBFLordKrueg]

Now here is a BRILLIANT idea:

How about we institute a "subpar" crew for Hexx due to him missing the last server if he returns for this one.   

Oh wait....  thats kinda redundant isn't it.   

 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I'm not sure what the excitement about Legendary crews is.  Ditto for the command cruisers.  As far as I can see, there's no difference between a command cruiser and the regular ship.  Same power, same weapons, same transporters....am I missing something?

Um no usually if not always, more power, more weapons, better shields, exra ships systems, sometimes better drone control ability.

Compare any race's CC to its CA nd you will see a considerable difference.

[Lieutenant_Q]

D7C to D7 biggest difference 3 Phaser 1s replace 3 Phaser 2s, also have a better Drone Rack with ADD.

F-CAR to F-CC.  Not only does the F-CC have 2 360 Phaser 1s compared to just the 2 RH Phaser 1s.  The F-CC also has 36 power compared to the CARs 34.

Not much difference in the Gorn Ship, and I am not too familiar with the Lyran and Kzinti ships.  There's too many Rommie ships to even begin a quick analysis.

[Dizzy]

I know this will probably be unpopular but I don't think we should have any legendary officers and especially not for PvP victory counts.  Why do we need to reward people who have sufficient skills in PvPs to meet this ace criteria with a ship that will make it easier for them to win more PvP battles? 

I saw Risky in line ships more than anyone. Unfortunately for him, he had me to deal with more often than I think he wanted... I think he was really trying for a Leg ship. I do. I dont usually see Risky flying what he did. Mb we should ask him?

Ywo other players I say flying line ships were Aviator and Dreadpirategeek. Imagine winging with a vet captain and eventually getting to ace status simply by participation in PvP fleet battles w/o dying.

I even tried getting one. I had I think 5-6 kills total in my Gorn CCH ship... But getting 15, maybe otward the end of the server I woulda got 15.

[Julin Eurthyr]

D7C to D7 biggest difference 3 Phaser 1s replace 3 Phaser 2s, also have a better Drone Rack with ADD.

F-CAR to F-CC.  Not only does the F-CC have 2 360 Phaser 1s compared to just the 2 RH Phaser 1s.  The F-CC also has 36 power compared to the CARs 34.

Not much difference in the Gorn Ship, and I am not too familiar with the Lyran and Kzinti ships.  There's too many Rommie ships to even begin a quick analysis.

All from memory:

Gorn are shafted.  All they get in their CA - CC conversion is a flag bridge, maybe.

ISC gets a PPD and 4 power.

Rommie is tough:
WB - KE gets Pl-F & power.
KCR - KCRS gets wing phasers and Pl-D
FHx - SUx gets NHx firepower and fighters

Mirak/Kzinti gets the B/C drone rack config, maybe power / shields

Hydran command boats are the "mixed armament" fusion & hellbore ships

Lyran is the only race I don't remember what their CC gets over the CA...

also, doesn't the F-CC and K-D7C lines get extra shields over their CA counterparts???

[ChAotiCIllusion]

Rommie KR to KRC is Plas F phasers and plas D its probably the biggest upgrade out of all the races.
Gorn get more marines!!!!!!
Mirak get power and 2 b to c racks
Hydran is next to impossible for a direct comparison
Lyran gets power and shields
Feds get power and arcs
Klink get phasers, shields, add and a better drone rack.
ISC isn't valid as the upgrade pushes the CC into a BCH

10 kills might possibly be obtainable but be very difficult if people stick to flying BCH's and DN's. What might be a better system is to take DN's out of the yards and award anyone with 10 kills without dying in a ship smaller than a BCH with a DN. Gives people a bigger incentive to try and get the kills and to fly a slightly smaller ship in the hope of getting a larger ship in the end.

[FPF-DieHard]

Consider this topic closed.   AOTK3 is going to start in 2263 with a 1.5 days per game years progression.  There will be plenty of time for people to rack up some kills in a CC.

The magic number is 10 without dying.  Partial point wil be awarded for partial kills.

The SCC and the HKIC will each get one, whoever they are.   Each side will also have 2 "Capos" who'll get a PP bonus that will allow them to start in a CC.

Everyone else gets a freightor 

[Centurus]

Why not have it so that no more than 3 ships on either side are legendary ships.  You make them extremely expensive compared to their standard counterparts, per class hull.  

OR

You could always revive and adopt the old ship assignment system, in where a ship of a certain class or type is assigned to you, but in this case, you're assigned legendary ships.  Each time a particular ship is given an upgrade, such as the CA to the CAR or what not, for example, have at least one legendary ship for that new upgrade.

If this has already been suggested in here, then forgive me.  After the last post on the first page, it was hard to keep track of for me.

[IAF Lyrkiller]

Chuut, that is WAY too complicated and convoluted.  I am NOT under any circumstances making any more varients than what already exists.

It was 5 Kills to be an Ace in WWII, is that too low?  

Perhaps 5 SOLO kills?  I've been bitchin that you can't get enough solo action on servers these days, maybe solo kills in a CC will encourage people to fly solo?

DH, it was 5 kill in WWI that got you "ace" status.

And I do agree w/ Chuut, smaller line ships should be included for getting legendary crews.

Just think about this for a sec, in WW I in around 1916, most if not all German pilots were flying Eindeckers. Max Immelman was an early German ace in that plane. He was also shot down in that plane.

[FPF-DieHard]

And I do agree w/ Chuut, smaller line ships should be included for getting legendary crews.

Not going to happen.  End of discussion.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

And I do agree w/ Chuut, smaller line ships should be included for getting legendary crews.

Its a nice idea Lyr, but Die Hard has pointed out that this would be complicated, and since he is the one doing the admin work, I have to respect this.  Sometimes cools ideas are just impractical.  The man does enough work for us, so I don't think we should push too much.  The idea was put forth and he vetoed it for that reason, I do not have a problem with that.

[FPF-Paladin]

Chuut, that is WAY too complicated and convoluted.  I am NOT under any circumstances making any more varients than what already exists.

It was 5 Kills to be an Ace in WWII, is that too low?  

Perhaps 5 SOLO kills?  I've been bitchin that you can't get enough solo action on servers these days, maybe solo kills in a CC will encourage people to fly solo?

DH, it was 5 kill in WWI that got you "ace" status.

And I do agree w/ Chuut, smaller line ships should be included for getting legendary crews.

Just think about this for a sec, in WW I in around 1916, most if not all German pilots were flying Eindeckers. Max Immelman was an early German ace in that plane. He was also shot down in that plane.

True.. but the Germans also were out of step from the Allies in expecting 10 kills to become an Experten (ace)


Just a thought: How about it costing a build point (s?) to upgrade the legendary ships?

[FPF-DieHard]

Chuut, that is WAY too complicated and convoluted.  I am NOT under any circumstances making any more varients than what already exists.

It was 5 Kills to be an Ace in WWII, is that too low? 

Perhaps 5 SOLO kills?  I've been bitchin that you can't get enough solo action on servers these days, maybe solo kills in a CC will encourage people to fly solo?

DH, it was 5 kill in WWI that got you "ace" status.

And I do agree w/ Chuut, smaller line ships should be included for getting legendary crews.

Just think about this for a sec, in WW I in around 1916, most if not all German pilots were flying Eindeckers. Max Immelman was an early German ace in that plane. He was also shot down in that plane.

True.. but the Germans also were out of step from the Allies in expecting 10 kills to become an Experten (ace)


Just a thought: How about it costing a build point (s?) to upgrade the legendary ships?

not using build points

[FPF-Paladin]

Ah, no problem .. *goes back over the ruleset again*

[FSD Warp10]

Do "aces" really need special ships anyhow?  Isn't it the newer and less skilled pvp players that would best be served by these ships anyway?  Giving a guy who has already proven himself an ace doesn't seem to make for the best matchups IMHO.


Here is an alternate proposal.  

2 legendary ships on a side at one time (3 if the overall commander is flying one as it doesn't count toward the total).  These ships cannot be flown by a veteran which could be defined as a player who has either more than 5 dyna servers experience, or 5 poits worth of kills on this server.  Once you start making an impact on the kill list your "newbie" status is revoked.

This gives the newer players a better chance of helping their side and presenting an even better fight to experienced veterans.  Giving the aces the ships only makes them less likely to be able to do so.  Some aces might find fun in killing the players in Legendary ships, but not exactly what I'd call sporting, even though I can't blame them for using the best tools at their dispossal.  Lets give the "newbies" the tools to make it a better fight.

Chuut,

    Your idea has good intentions behind it and I do understand where you are coming from...but I flew on the recent B5 server and we used the same idea of giving "newbie" pilots better and more powerful ships in order to level the playing field. This resulted in the newbie pilots not learning what they would have otherwise. Yes it made the battles more even but in the long run I think it does a disservice to the newbies by not letting them progress as veteran players have. They don't learn as much because they do not experience the same things in there Uber ships. Just my take on this type of experiment. Additionally I agree with you about veteran pilots not needing enhanced ships. To me it is kind of odd to give the best pilots better ships, but it's all good.

[Dizzy]

Do "aces" really need special ships anyhow?  Isn't it the newer and less skilled pvp players that would best be served by these ships anyway?  Giving a guy who has already proven himself an ace doesn't seem to make for the best matchups IMHO.


Here is an alternate proposal.  

2 legendary ships on a side at one time (3 if the overall commander is flying one as it doesn't count toward the total).  These ships cannot be flown by a veteran which could be defined as a player who has either more than 5 dyna servers experience, or 5 poits worth of kills on this server.  Once you start making an impact on the kill list your "newbie" status is revoked.

This gives the newer players a better chance of helping their side and presenting an even better fight to experienced veterans.  Giving the aces the ships only makes them less likely to be able to do so.  Some aces might find fun in killing the players in Legendary ships, but not exactly what I'd call sporting, even though I can't blame them for using the best tools at their dispossal.  Lets give the "newbies" the tools to make it a better fight.

Chuut,
To me it is kind of odd to give the best pilots better ships, but it's all good.

You suggest to mischaracterize. Only a few are available. And newbs have equal chances of getting one. If a newb flies in enough successful fleet battles using a line ship, then they are in like flynn as long as they always manage not to die. Not too hard for the ultra-cautious. Besides, these 'better ships' are only marginally so. BC's and DN's outclass them. So they are not ott in any way.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chuut,

    Your idea has good intentions behind it and I do understand where you are coming from...but I flew on the recent B5 server and we used the same idea of giving "newbie" pilots better and more powerful ships in order to level the playing field. This resulted in the newbie pilots not learning what they would have otherwise. Yes it made the battles more even but in the long run I think it does a disservice to the newbies by not letting them progress as veteran players have. They don't learn as much because they do not experience the same things in there Uber ships. Just my take on this type of experiment. Additionally I agree with you about veteran pilots not needing enhanced ships. To me it is kind of odd to give the best pilots better ships, but it's all good.

With all due respect, this is kinda covered.

I said

"These ships cannot be flown by a veteran which could be defined as a player who has either more than 5 dyna servers experience, or 5 poits worth of kills on this server.  Once you start making an impact on the kill list your "newbie" status is revoked."

So, once they got "a feel" for things they would have any "training wheels" removed.

[The_Joker]

Did I read correctly that partial kills will earn partial points toward legendary ships?  This appeals to me as pretty much anybody in KHH or PGC can attest that I'm a pretty crappy solo pilot, but a good wing.

[FPF-DieHard]

Did I read correctly that partial kills will earn partial points toward legendary ships?  This appeals to me as pretty much anybody in KHH or PGC can attest that I'm a pretty crappy solo pilot, but a good wing.

Partial kills will count.

[FSD Warp10]

Chuut,

    Your idea has good intentions behind it and I do understand where you are coming from...but I flew on the recent B5 server and we used the same idea of giving "newbie" pilots better and more powerful ships in order to level the playing field. This resulted in the newbie pilots not learning what they would have otherwise. Yes it made the battles more even but in the long run I think it does a disservice to the newbies by not letting them progress as veteran players have. They don't learn as much because they do not experience the same things in there Uber ships. Just my take on this type of experiment. Additionally I agree with you about veteran pilots not needing enhanced ships. To me it is kind of odd to give the best pilots better ships, but it's all good.

With all due respect, this is kinda covered.

I said

"These ships cannot be flown by a veteran which could be defined as a player who has either more than 5 dyna servers experience, or 5 poits worth of kills on this server.  Once you start making an impact on the kill list your "newbie" status is revoked."

So, once they got "a feel" for things they would have any "training wheels" removed.

Aye sir, my mistake. Not a bad idea with these provisions!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well maybe another time, its already been ruled out for this one.