Topic: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.

[Sirgod]

THe closest I ever heard was a Ram drive. I messed around with it back in the days of EAW. Basicly the program was always loaded into on board Memory ie. those memory slots where full. and when the os loaded, EAW would already be in memory vs. having to be read from the HD.

It gave me a headache actually.

Stephen

[Nemesis]

I used RAM drives back in the DOS days.  I could run a program from the RAM dirve far faster than from the floppy and then save the data when done.  It was a couple of orders of magnitude faster on disk intensive things.

The DVD playing and streaming media on Linux may just have become a little easier (my interpretation of this) thanks to Microsoft.  Much though they may regret it.

[Just plain old Punisher]

Bootable CD/USB Drive versions for example.

I can boot XP from a CD or a USB drive in windows.

Are you talking a fully installed and setup with your applications which can be moved from system to system version of XP or something else?  Any links to where there are instructions on how to setup such a thing?  I know some people who would find it useful.

http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=177102101&pgno=1

Your computer has to support booting to a USB device.

For windows XP, step by step instructions for installing XP on a thumb drive.

As far as installing it on an external USB hard drive, just pop in the XP CD and install the OS on the USB hard drive. Of course, porting it from system to system with different hardware would pose some small problems. You would have to have the computers motherboard, video, sound, network, etc drivers ready to go.

As far as activation is concerned, well, you'd have to work that out on your own. I just use a site license key.

[Lepton]

I don't use ubuntu.  I don't use the ubuntu OS.  I use other linux versions.

Sorry you had a bad experience with Linux.

And this statement (in a nutshell) is why open source is never going to be a viable alternative to the general populous.

"Hey Bob, you are good with computers, can you come over and help me with mine tonight?" 
"What OS you got, Jake?"
"Unbuntu release 6.66"
"Oh... you see I am a redhat man, that or mandrake"
"So you can't help me?"
Well you might want to check their forums, they are pretty good"
"Yeah, well, already did that, and frankly I didn't understand a thing they were talking about."
"well you could always reinstall Redhat..."

 

Open source normally = huge amount of customization.  Which = lack of standardization.  This why I have always said that monopolies are bad, but they sure make life easier.

GE-Raven

Be fair Raven.  Lepton is making a complaint about Linux to two relative novices not experts and when asked what hardware he has didn't respond.  He also is complaining that editing a text file to fix a problem is too difficult.  Would you expect a novice Windows 2000 user to be able to diagnose and fix a Windows XP problem with as little info as Lepton is providing?  Do you really think that editing a text file is any more difficult than editing the registry on Windows?  Not to mention his repeated complaints that a free version of Linux that cannot legally in the U.S. distribute the programs to play streaming media can't do it.  For that he either must learn to acquire the programs and install them himself or BUY a version that can legally contain those programs without being sued to death (as previously mentioned).  I even mentioned a distribution that he could buy to do those things but was ignored.

Linux isn't perfect of course but neither is Windows. 

Linux can do things Windows can't.  Bootable CD/USB Drive versions for example.  So it seems understandable if Windows can do some things Linux can't.  Especially when you take into account Microsoft acting behind the scenes to sabotage Linux as that E-Mail from Bill Gates I linked to makes it clear they do.

Ah. excuse me.  I was not asking you to troubleshoot anything for me, nor is my hardware an issue, so I can't see how I am obligated to respond to any particular question you pose.

I am not sure why you think that a free OS should somehow be held to a different standard than a purchased OS.  I thought we were all in agreement that all computers should come with a free OS, but I guess what you really want is for people to buy linux and I can 100% guarantee you that this is not going to happen from what I have seen of free linux distribution.  Please outline for me the significant differences between OpenSuse and some paid version of that particular distro.  Is it merely support and if so, what quality of support?

As I said, my point is simple.  As long as you can break your OS, have to manually edit config file, and futz about to get simple multimedia functionality, linux is going nowhere.  Now, if your contention is that paid versions of a linux OS has solved these problems, then I'd say whoever is producing those distros needs a slap in the head for not porting such solutions over to the free versions of the distro.  Or, if your contention is that different distros of linux handle some things better than others, then let me say that MPlayer is MPlayer, VLC is VLC, gstreamer is gstreamer, and their crappy plugin functionality with Mozilla-based browsers I would guess would be universal to any distro.

I have no doubt that Linux does any number of things better than Windows.  I'd prefer to run Linux, however as I said to the degree that things are difficult to do in Linux, people will choose Windows.  Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

[Lepton]

Here's what you have to do to run ATI drives under OpenSUSE:

http://www.suse.de/~sndirsch/ati-installer-HOWTO.html

ATI Installer HOWTO for SUSE/Novell users
openSUSE 10.2
If you want or need to use the latest and greatest ATI driver, continue here .

Use

  YaST -> Software -> Change installation Source -> Add

  Protocol: http
  Server Name: : www2.ati.com
  Directory on Server: suse/10.2

to add the ATI http server as additional installation source.
Now use

  YaST -> Software -> Install and Delete Software

to install the ATI/fglrx driver. Select the following packages:

  x11-video-fglrxG01
  ati-fglrxG01-kmp-<kernel-flavor>

<kernel-flavor> depends on your installed kernel. Check with
"uname -r" for installed default/smp/bigsmp kernel. Use "sax2 -r"
for X.Org configuration.

SUSE LINUX 10.1 / SLES10 / SLED10
If you want or need to use the latest and greatest ATI driver, continue here .

Update your Kernel via YOU (YaST Online Update). Use

  YaST -> Software -> Change installation Source -> Add

  Protocol: http
  Server Name: : www2.ati.com
  Directory on Server: suse/sle10

to add the ATI http server as additional installation source.
Now use

  YaST -> Software -> Install and Delete Software

to install the ATI/fglrx driver. Select the following packages:

  x11-video-fglrx
  ati-fglrx-kmp-<kernel-flavor>

<kernel-flavor> depends on your installed kernel. Check with
"uname -r" for installed default/smp/bigsmp kernel. Use "sax2 -r"
for X.Org configuration.

Manual driver installation for SUSE LINUX 10.0, SLES9, NLD9 and earlier

Since ATI driver release 8.16.20 the ATI installer needs to be used
to create SUSE/Novell RPMs. Download the ATI installer from the ATI
website.

  http://www.ati.com --> Drivers & Software --> Linux

It is possible to create RPMs for the following SUSE/Novell distros.
This information has been retrieved by using the installer itself:

  ati-driver-installer-8.36.5-x86.x86_64.run --listpkg

[...]
SuSE Packages:
        SuSE/NLD9-IA32      NLD9
        SuSE/SLES9-IA32      SLES9
        SuSE/SUSE91-IA32   SUSE 9.1
        SuSE/NLD9-AMD64      NLD9 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SLES9-AMD64   SLES9 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SUSE91-AMD64   SUSE 9.1 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SUSE100-IA32   SUSE 10.0
        SuSE/SUSE92-IA32   SUSE 9.2
        SuSE/SUSE93-IA32   SUSE 9.3
        SuSE/SUSE100-AMD64   SUSE 10.0 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SUSE92-AMD64   SUSE 9.2 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SUSE93-AMD64   SUSE 9.3 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SLED10-IA32   SLED10
        SuSE/SLES10-IA32   SLES10
        SuSE/SUSE101-IA32   SUSE 10.1
        SuSE/SLED10-AMD64   SLED10 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SLES10-AMD64   SLES10 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SUSE101-AMD64   SUSE 10.1 (x86_64)
        SuSE/SUSE102-IA32   openSUSE 10.2
        SuSE/SUSE102-AMD64   openSUSE 10.2 (x86_64)

Example:
--------
Create a RPM for SUSE 10.0 (i386) by using the installer.

  ./ati-driver-installer-8.36.5-x86.x86_64.run --buildpkg SuSE/SUSE100-IA32

Afterwards install the created RPM by using the rpm command. In the
mentioned example above this would be:

  rpm -Uhv fglrx_6_8_0_SUSE100-8.36.5-1.i386.rpm

The postinstall script of this RPM will try to compile the required
kernel module. If this fails, you'll get a message how to proceed.

You still need to configure the driver with SaX2. Details can be found
in /usr/share/doc/packages/fglrx/README.SuSE.

Unfortunately you need to recompile the "fglrx" kernel module right
after any kernel (security) update. Use "fglrx-kernel-build.sh" for
this.

That's just so user-friendly especially if there are kernel changes.  To get latest Windows ATI drivers, I just go to the ATI site and get an little program that tests and probes my hardware and selects the proper one.  That's user-friendly.

[Lepton]

And surprise, surprise, I check here (http://www.novell.com/products/linuxpackages/desktop10/i386/index_group.html) as to what comes with SLED and guess what, it's all the same stuff that comes with any other free linux distribution including Ubuntu.  Yes, let me pay $150 bucks for a 3-year, one device license just so that beryl may or may not work on my hardware, or that I break my OS trying to configure it to work with beryl.  That's cost-effective.

[Sirgod]

Man I don't know, Lepton and Nemesis both have good points here.

the only thing caught me off guard here was this.

Ah. excuse me.  I was not asking you to troubleshoot anything for me, nor is my hardware an issue, so I can't see how I am obligated to respond to any particular question you pose.

Man Nem as I took it was offering too help, and you kinda snapped at him, because you both had a differant opinion. Dude, a thanks but no thanks would have worked alright there. Guys an OS is not something to argue over , or let it get to you.

Like I said, good points all over the place though, That post with the ATI drivers actually made me laugh, as I have an ATI card that gives me nothing but Trouble (signal loss, It shuts my monitor down at wierd times)

Stephen

[Dash Jones]

To get latest Windows ATI drivers, I just go to the ATI site and get an little program that tests and probes my hardware and selects the proper one.  That's user-friendly.

I'm glad it's so easy for you...cause Ati is a [edit: pain] for me.  I only use Ati cards on ones which others already have them on because their cards are great, but their drivers are more pain in the arse than even some of the Integrated ones as far as drivers go and getting games to work (half the time with new releases they DON'T work, because Ati decides they have to update drivers for that game TOO work).

Yes, I'm an Nvidia user if one couldn't guess.

 

Only reason is the drivers for Ati and ease of use for Nvidia.

I did find this statement funny

As long as you can break your OS, have to manually edit config file, and futz about to get simple multimedia functionality, linux is going nowhere.

I could come over and break Windows in about 10 seconds if you wanted to...from a non-adminstrative account even.  It happens all the time, keeps a lot of businesses IN business even.  The ease of windows is available in Linux, the DIFFERENCE is that most computers now are issued with Windows already configured for that particular computer.  Most people don't have to install windows and then hunt down the drivers for that computer themselves, then configure and make sure the hardware is correct for windows.  It's preinstalled at the store for them already, and if they were smart and got restore CDs, then the restore CDs are all configured as well. 

The instant they have to install themselves is when I start getting calls from friends to help them configure their computers, and then if I don't have time I tell to take it to some business that can help them instead.

You had a bad experience with Linux and I'm sorry you feel that way, Linux IS growing in popularity slowly, and Vista probably will help it grow even more.

However, Windows is only big because most people getting a computer get it with their computer.  If they didn't, then you'd probably see Window's popularity start dying off a wee bit.

I can acquisce that you have some opinions on Linux and that's fine, but some of your opinions don't jive with some of the things I've seen either so we can all be happy knowing we have different opinions.

[Sirgod]

Damn Dash you have me convinced, I'm buying an Abacus next monday.

Stephen

[Dash Jones]

Abacus's work great actually.

Very simple, and I unless one deliberately tries to break it (or if one is under the age of 5 in which case it's a given it will break it seems) it's one of the most durable items you can utilize for calculations.

For the more advanced can I suggest a slide ruler?

[KBF MalaK]

Bootable CD/USB Drive versions for example.

I can boot XP from a CD or a USB drive in windows.

Are you talking a fully installed and setup with your applications which can be moved from system to system version of XP or something else?  Any links to where there are instructions on how to setup such a thing?  I know some people who would find it useful.

http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=177102101&pgno=1

Your computer has to support booting to a USB device.

For windows XP, step by step instructions for installing XP on a thumb drive.

As far as installing it on an external USB hard drive, just pop in the XP CD and install the OS on the USB hard drive. Of course, porting it from system to system with different hardware would pose some small problems. You would have to have the computers motherboard, video, sound, network, etc drivers ready to go.

As far as activation is concerned, well, you'd have to work that out on your own. I just use a site license key.

Just curious but can XP be installed in a 'dual boot' configuration to a thumb drive ??

I've never tried it and honestly avoid XP like a plague as it's lacking in true DOS compatability I require for some of my projects, but may consider it if I can put it on a thumb drive. Currently I'm running 98se over a full DOS 6.22 install but have it on a removable HD enclosure that I swap with an XP installed drive. The 2 drives are never connected together in the same system, but a 98 HD with an XP thumbdrive (dual boot) opens up a few possibilities but I don't have time to see if it works.

[Nemesis]

Ah. excuse me.  I was not asking you to troubleshoot anything for me, nor is my hardware an issue, so I can't see how I am obligated to respond to any particular question you pose.

Well Lepton I am about to let you into an open secret about the Dynaverse Forums.  They are full of people who when you say you have a problem will try to help you.  Of course you are not obligated to take such help.

It would be nice however if early on you were to indicate that you aren't actually stating a problem that help would be appreciated on but just ranting. 

I am not sure why you think that a free OS should somehow be held to a different standard than a purchased OS. 

Do you hold a free concert in the part to the same standards you hold a concert that you paid to see?  If you were given a free car would you complain that it didn't have the options you would have chosen?

I thought we were all in agreement that all computers should come with a free OS, but I guess what you really want is for people to buy linux and I can 100% guarantee you that this is not going to happen from what I have seen of free linux distribution. 

Whatever makes you think that anyone wants only free Operating systems or free software in general?  I personally like competition.  I'm using OpenSuSe as stated.  I have bought Linux versions in the past and would buy them in the future if they were being sold locally.

As I said, my point is simple.  As long as you can break your OS, have to manually edit config file, and futz about to get simple multimedia functionality, linux is going nowhere.

Link 1

Here is a link from Microsoft telling you how to handle it when Vista stops responding during bootup.  So it is an example of Windows "breaking" without referring to "ancient versions" as you objected to earlier.

Link 2

Here is another example of Window breaking.  This time when creating a partition with XP when the system is set to dual boot with Vista.  Microsofts solution "don't do that".  How about fixing XP so it actually works or fix Vista so it works with XP?

Link 3

Here is another XP one.  How to fix (by editing the registry) your DVD/CD which has just "stopped working".

Link 4

This is a good one.  How to fix a corrupt registry in XP.  It involves dropping to the command line from the install CD and doing extensive copying and deleting files by hand.

All this show is that Windows too breaks and it is acknowledged by Microsoft and that you can have to jump through a lot of hoops to fix things - Just like Linux.

Now, if your contention is that paid versions of a linux OS has solved these problems, then I'd say whoever is producing those distros needs a slap in the head for not porting such solutions over to the free versions of the distro.  Or, if your contention is that different distros of linux handle some things better than others, then let me say that MPlayer is MPlayer, VLC is VLC, gstreamer is gstreamer, and their crappy plugin functionality with Mozilla-based browsers I would guess would be universal to any distro.

I have stated repeatedly already that certain functions CANNOT BY LAW be included in the free distributions without the distributors being sued to death over patents.  I think that is pretty plain and easy to understand.

If you had a patent that you licensed to software companies what would you do to those who don't pay your fees but violate your license?  Would you perhaps sue them?  That is exactly why such software is not distributed in the free versions - they don't have the legal right to do so.   Commercial versions because they are paid for can use some of that income to pay the licensing fees.

And surprise, surprise, I check here (http://www.novell.com/products/linuxpackages/desktop10/i386/index_group.html) as to what comes with SLED and guess what, it's all the same stuff that comes with any other free linux distribution including Ubuntu.  Yes, let me pay $150 bucks for a 3-year, one device license just so that beryl may or may not work on my hardware, or that I break my OS trying to configure it to work with beryl.  That's cost-effective.

I repeatedly suggested LINSPIRE for some very good reasons.

1/ It is intended for the home user
2/ It has licenses to allow it to include media playing abilities.
3/ It sells more media playing ability as well

Just out of curiosity what type of software do you think that "Novell SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop" will include?  That word "Enterprise" is very important.  You see it tells what SLED is configured for - (big) business desktop use.  Would you really need DVD playing and streaming media on the average business desktop OS?  I don't think so my self.

[Nemesis]

For the more advanced can I suggest a slide rule?

Haven't used one in ages.  However I did win a few bets by being faster with the slide rule than people were with their calculators (until people learned not to try me ).  The calculator had more digits but was definitely slower and most of the time the extra digits are not relevant anyhow.

[Sirgod]

Linespire s only 13 bucks also... http://www.pcclub.com/product_details.cfm?itemno=A7202008

It's going on a PC as soon as  I finish building another one.

Linspire is a full-featured computer operating system based on Linux and designed for desktop and laptop computers. Based on Linux, Linspire provides a stable, virus-free computing experience, yet is incredibly easy-to-use. Bundled software includes a Microsoft Office file-compatible office suite, a powerful Internet and email suite, complete song and photo programs, media players for viewing animation and videos, and much more.

Use Linspire to do things on the Web, create and share documents, work with graphics, play music, organize digital photos, view rich multimedia files and easily connect to networks and peripherals.

· Comparable to Microsoft XP at much lower price.
· Comes with a complete Microsoft Office file-compatible office suite for editing and sharing word processing, spreadsheet, presentation and drawing files.
· Exclusive CNR Technology (“click and run”) makes installing, updating and managing Linux software literally as easy as one mouse click.
· Familiar look that will feel comfortable for Microsoft Windows users on the surface, although powerful Linux runs“under the hood.”
· Tabbed Internet Browsing with Popup Blocking reduces screen clutter and speeds Internet activities
· E-Mail with Smart Junk Mail Filter
· Optional built-in virus protection and web filtering services available
· Instant messaging, which allows for signing on with multiple messaging services, (AOL’s AIM, ICQ, Yahoo Messenger)
· Free Internet phone calling
· Download and listen to MP3’s and other audio files
· Burn your own custom CD’s
· Watch video files with the built-in players
· Interactive multimedia tutorials walk users through using Linspire for the first time
· Specialized laptop features for advanced power management and wifi
· Installs in under 10 minutes

Stephen

[Nemesis]

Linespire s only 13 bucks also... http://www.pcclub.com/product_details.cfm?itemno=A7202008

It's going on a PC as soon as  I finish building another one.
Stephen

Did you notice this part? 

*Must be purchased with any hardware*

Depending what they mean it could be anything from a full system to buying a token piece of hardware for $1.

This part:

· Exclusive CNR Technology (“click and run”) makes installing, updating and managing Linux software literally as easy as one mouse click.

Is no longer valid.  They have begun to make deals to put it on other versions of Linux starting with Ubuntu.  They are also basing future versions of Linspire on Ubuntu.  So it is no longer "exclusive" to Linspire.

[Lepton]

Nemesis,

Can you cite anything that doesn't have to do with Vista?  To the degree that you are going to rely on Vista horror stories to make your point is to the degree that I won't be taking you seriously.

[Lepton]

PSH!!!  Even the Linspire CEO says that Dell should not sell Linspire on their hardware due to the Linux market:

http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter.php

He recommends Ubuntu, OpenSuse, or Fedora.

Also Linspire is Debian/Ubuntu-derivative distro.  Why would anyone pay for Linspire when they can get Kubuntu, as Linspire uses KDE.  What am I paying for?  Nothing that I can see.

[Nemesis]

Nemesis,

Can you cite anything that doesn't have to do with Vista?  To the degree that you are going to rely on Vista horror stories to make your point is to the degree that I won't be taking you seriously.

I gave you 4 links to Microsoft provided solutions only one was for Vista the other 3 for XP.  You complained about Win2k and Win98 issues being ancient so I gave you current XP and Vista issues what more can be done if you refuse to accept that Windows does have issues for some people?  Microsoft accepts that why can't you? 

[Nemesis]

PSH!!!  Even the Linspire CEO says that Dell should not sell Linspire on their hardware due to the Linux market:

http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter.php

He recommends Ubuntu, OpenSuse, or Fedora.

As stated earlier:

They are also basing future versions of Linspire on Ubuntu.  So it is no longer "exclusive" to Linspire.

For him there is profit by Dell shipping based on Ubuntu as he provides the “click and run” service which is where he makes his money to Ubuntu.  Canonical (makers of Ubuntu) provide Dell with support, Linspire provides the add on software where Linspire makes its money.

We have explained to Dell that we see Linux in two different markets. The first we call the "Linux Enthusiasts Market." This is where Linux is today. The second is the "Linux Mainstream Market." This market is likely one to three years away. Because Dell is going to put their toe into the desktop Linux PC waters now, they should offer a product that is geared towards where that market is today...the Linux Enthusiasts.

Advice to Dell from Linspire - sell to the market that is now and prepare for the market that is maturing.  Good advice.  It also matches what Dell customers asked Dell for - Ubuntu - Fedora or SuSE on Dell.  Customers didn't ask for Linspire.

[Lepton]

And wow, here's a list of the packages available at install under Linspire:

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=linspire

It's the same crap as every other distro.  I see MPlayer in there and I can guarantee you that unless they built their own plugin (which I doubt, wouldn't they advertise that fact?), MPlayer is not a good platform for streaming multimedia as accessed via Firefox.  This is mere dumbed-down Kubuntu.  Why would I pay 50 bucks for this?  And that 50 bucks doesn't even include OS updates.  How anyone gets away with packaging open-source/free software and tries to sell it to you is beyond me.