Topic: clones vs brand names

[Don Karnage]

i was wondering what are the diference betwen what the call a clone and a brand mark like IMB or DELL?

[Javora]

I'll take a stab at this, other peoples opinions may vary but here it goes.  Now I'm going to compare self built systems vs Dell etc.  If you were to buy from a local mom and pop store the only real difference is that you would let them put it together instead of doing it yourself.  Any and all issues that come up after in most cases would be up to you to handle either yourself or by calling the place where you had the system built.

With a home built system you know exactly what is going into the system and you have to put it together so you become your own tech support.  It's been my experience that the parts that I bought and put together myself IMHO were a lot better quality then the system parts that I bought from Dell.  I have had no trouble with the system that I built in the 3+ years that I had it.  Upgrades have been no problem as since I put the system together I knew what to expect.  Also my system could handle additions like a new more power hungry video card because I made sure that I bought a power supply that could handle it.  So far all the issues that I have ever had have been software issues.

Where as buying from a Dell etc part of your total costs pays for a limited tech support.  So if something goes wrong you need to call them or risk voiding your warranty if you make any changes on your own.  A couple of things I found out after buying my Dell is that the motherboard, power supply, and case power leads are all non-standard.  That means if you want to change any one of those parts, in most cases you have to change the whole system as regular components that you would buy off the shelf won't work with the system.  Now there are after market cables that allow you to change the power supply but if a Dell tech comes to your home and finds this, your warranty can be voided.  The other thing is that the parts I've found inside a Dell has been what I would consider cheap parts.  I think what is going on is that Dell and others are buying the cheapest parts they can find in volume and filling their PC's to help increase profit margins.  Lastly I also found that the power supplies are capable enough to just run the parts that are in the system at the time it ships.  So if you try to add more parts later on you can find that the system won't boot because the power supply is over loaded.  This was a contradiction to what the Dell salesperson told me as I was told that the Dell system that I bought would be very and easily upgradeable.  Now you could probably add another hard drive or DVD drive but a new video card and other components would be out of the question.  At least that has been my experience, other peoples milage may very.

So in my honest opinion I would suggest building to buying any day of the week.  One thing though I suggest that if people do build a new system that they keep their old system.  That way if something goes wrong, there is a way to get on the net and download drivers updates or look for help from places like the Tech Support Forum if something happens that is beyond a persons ability.  Note this option won't save a person any money, in fact most times it will cost more.  But for me the piece of mind and upgrade options available to me have been money very well spent.  Hope this helps.

[Nemesis]

I'll take a stab at this, other peoples opinions may vary but here it goes.  Now I'm going to compare self built systems vs Dell etc.  If you were to buy from a local mom and pop store the only real difference is that you would let them put it together instead of doing it yourself.  Any and all issues that come up after in most cases would be up to you to handle either yourself or by calling the place where you had the system built.

It depends a lot on what Don means by "clone".  "Clone" used to mean a clone of the IBM PC standards and Dell was considered a cloner.  That definition is obsolete and has been for years.  What Don means I'm not totally sure of.

There can be problems with the Mom and Pop store machines.  Some such machines are made of the cheapest components and pirated software.  I've heard of hardware in the machines that could not even be identified and others glued into the sockets so you couldn't change anything without changing everything. 

On the other hand a reputable store that builds using components that you specify can create a machine that is high in quality (I've had them custom built for me that way myself).  By specifying the components you can make sure you don't end up with hardware that won't run upcoming software and that is easily upgradeable.

Custom built where you research each component and the machine is built to those specification in my experience gets you a stable lasting machine that can be upgraded to handle future challenges much more easily than the major brands. 

Some examples of bad behaviour by the major brands that I have run across:

1/ IBM - used to use custom memory which meant that they could charge more to upgrade your RAM

2/ Dell - last I checked used a ATX standard power supply - wired backwards - so a non Dell powersupply wired in the standard way would fry your system if you didn't know better and installed a more powerful standard unit.

3/ It used to be (and may still be) standard practice to install the weakest power supply that would run the system.  This of course meant any upgrade required a power supply swap. 

4/ Non standard motherboards and cases so you can't just swap a standard motherboard or power supply into your major brand case.  Often they are slim cases that mount the expansion cards parrallel to the mother board on a proprietary expansion card.  Such motherboards are non standard and limit your replacement options rather severely and also limit what cards can be added to them.

5/ Special HD areas set aside and used to store BIOS utilities.  Replace the HD or install a different OS that is not aware of that area and lose the required utilities.

6/ Proprietary controllers or cards that won't likely be supported by future OS versions as the company makes more money selling you a new computer rather than supporting you with new driver releases.  My workplace was once burned that way with CD-ROM controllers that way.

7/ Integrated features that use the CPU to provide the components function by running an emulator (Winmodems, Winprinters and sound cards most commonly).

8/ Components not compatible to existing standards.  Compaq used to have a custom HD.  To add more HD capacity to your system you had to either replace the Compaq drive or buy another Compaq drive as they wouldn't coexist with a non Compaq HD in the system.

9/  Another Compaq.  They used to use special screws to fasten the case together.  Most people don't have the requisite screwdrivers to open the case and might not even be aware of any way to get them and therefore would be stuck with Compaq servicing the computer at whatever price Compaq ordained.

Some of my list above overlaps Javora which should tell you that even the big companies have issues and that those issues can be bypassed by an informed consumer either custom building or having a reputable local store custom build for you.

[Javora]

It depends a lot on what Don means by "clone".  "Clone" used to mean a clone of the IBM PC standards and Dell was considered a cloner.  That definition is obsolete and has been for years.  What Don means I'm not totally sure of.

There can be problems with the Mom and Pop store machines.  Some such machines are made of the cheapest components and pirated software.  I've heard of hardware in the machines that could not even be identified and others glued into the sockets so you couldn't change anything without changing everything. 

On the other hand a reputable store that builds using components that you specify can create a machine that is high in quality (I've had them custom built for me that way myself).  By specifying the components you can make sure you don't end up with hardware that won't run upcoming software and that is easily upgradeable.

Custom built where you research each component and the machine is built to those specification in my experience gets you a stable lasting machine that can be upgraded to handle future challenges much more easily than the major brands. 

Yeah I wasn't sure either which is why I tapped out what I did above.  Nemesis is right about the Mon and Pop stores machines also being filled with substandard parts and pirated software.  I have only heard of this in my area once, and that store quickly went out of business as soon as word of mouth got out.  Like I said this is my experience, your mileage may very.

What I would suggest is getting a complete parts list including names and numbers of the parts going into the system.  Then going over that list as Nemesis said above and telling them what you want or don't want in a new system.  As for software, make sure you get the CD's otherwise there is no way of really knowing if the software is pirated or not.  Having the CD's is not foolproof but it's the best thing that I can suggest.  Again this might be more expensive than buying a system off the shelf or the Internet but IMHO it gives you a much more stable system.

[Elvis]

I think we are making this more difficult then it needs to be. When I hear the reference to a clone it ususally is soemthing like "this is an IBM clone". I've never heard of a reference to a Dell clone, but I've heard Compaq and HP both called IBM clones, just an old reference to the maker of the first personal computers which happened to be IBM. 

[Don Karnage]

I think we are making this more difficult then it needs to be. When I hear the reference to a clone it ususally is soemthing like "this is an IBM clone". I've never heard of a reference to a Dell clone, but I've heard Compaq and HP both called IBM clones, just an old reference to the maker of the first personal computers which happened to be IBM. 

that what m talking about, IBM was the real stuff and the rest was clone, so what are the difference betwen he IBM and the rest, not many are using IBM since there no where to be found (IBM shop are gone) and i don't think that there machine where superior in quality compare to clones.

[Nemesis]

that what m talking about, IBM was the real stuff and the rest was clone, so what are the difference betwen he IBM and the rest, not many are using IBM since there no where to be found (IBM shop are gone) and i don't think that there machine where superior in quality compare to clones.

Your original post included Dell as well as IBM.  Since Dell itself was a clone of the IBM that confused the issue.  IBM is pretty much out of the PC hardware business now as they prefer products with higher profit margins than the PC hardware market allows.  They still sell software and services.  So all that are left are the clones - including Dell.

i was wondering what are the diference betwen what the call a clone and a brand mark like IMB or DELL?

[Electric Eye]

Lenovo is becoming available to the U.S. public through a lil known chain called Wal-Mart.

Who are they? Just the number 3 P/C maker in the world, and they are Chinese built and shipped. They bought out IBM's P/C manufacturing sector just 2 yrs ago.