Topic: I Guess I'm jumping on the band-wagon too...

[Atolm-Rising]

I had an idea about the Doomsday-Machine in TOS...
What if the DDM looked the way it did because it was war-torn, or battle hardened.  I mean it came from outside of our galaxy from wherever theirs originated from, and traversed intergalactic space to come to ours.  Now that means that the ship would have taken a pounding along the way.
So...I thought to myself, "what would the DDM look like straight from the factory"...so I was looking around the net and I saw a pic of the Geonosian Sonic blaster from Star Wars...and guess what...thats the shape.

So here it is Fresh off the assembly line:

[Chris Johnson]

For some reason, the "texture" pattern on the Factory Fresh Planet Killer seems reminiscent of some of your previous designs, I believe even some of your Fed ship designs (I could be wrong about that), where the "aztec" patterns are similar in desgn; 4-to-6-sided boxes, some with small rectangles inside (and off to a side)... But it could be just me.

Other than that, it looks like a big, fish-like (deadly) gun.

[Atolm-Rising]

yeah it deffinatly reminds me of a supersized very pissed off fish, although how do you account for the radical change in shape as not even picking up millenias worth of space dust could change its shape so drasticaly

...The DDM would have supposedly have had to battle other races with some superior firepower in order for it to have been unleashed in the first place...Then it would have to battle the rest of its galaxy(and possibly other Galaxies untill it reached ours),as well as stellar debris, anomolies, and other spacial, interstellar, and intergalactic phenomena.
And it does look like a fish or at least a Fish-shaped thing, that probably the creators of the DDM modelled it after some indigenous lifeform from their world or better yet maybe a space-dwelling lifeform...I mean even we model our stuff after animals...to a degree.

Glad you mates like her

[Tus-XC]

 here is my take, what we see in tos is much like how the A10 is designed.   what is left of the DDM is pretty much the weapon.  All the stuff in atolms drawin could be living space for the crew.  so what could have happend is that the DDM is autonomous when it comes to it duty, but was still controlled by a crew.  It came up against an enemy that litterally melted it down to the weapon (which is solid nutronium) killing the crew, and thus preventing the weapon from ever being shut off.   i mean look at the hull patterns on the DDM, it look like its was melted, it gots those scaling effect of it going through an enormous amount of heat

[Klingon Fanatic]

 

Atolm: Excellent technical drawing to be sure. In an alternate Trek universe it is probably a very sound idea set you have in mind.

Personally, I don't like it as an alternate planet killer model.  Maybe for the Whale Probe race in ST: IV would be a better fit with what you have in mind.

However, aside from the newly remastered version, I really don't like the other variations of the Doomsday Machine I've seen online either. One version looks really bad; like a cross between a tadpole and a sperm cell, IMHO.

Why don't I like the other variations?

In TOS the Doomsday Machine was an ancient, neutronium armored robot. It had no crew. It was an automated engine of destruction that once unleashed there was no turning it back or stopping it. It was meant to be an analogous to our planets own planet killers; thermonuclear weapons and the Cold War era threat of nuclear war. Game over.

To add crew or other familar features found on human/iod starships really takes away from its awe inspiring alieness of the planet killer and deminishes the fear factor. It may have looked different fresh out of the assembly yard but I don't think it would have been that different. Neutronium is super dense and very tough stuff. Why does its builder have to be presumably humanlike any way? What if its builders were giant, Cthulhu-like entities that built as a disposable fire and forget weapon that happens to be the weapon that keeps on killing?

You have a chance to negotiate with an alien crew but not against a souless automaton. This very concept is what made the Terminator films very frightening.

Wait, wait, wait. What about V'ger?

V'Ger was willing to communicate because it was looking for its creator and the Whale Probe from ST: IV was probably crewed and was looking for Cetaceans to communicate with. It may have looked very different too off the assembly line.

In the 1980s FASA Trek roleplaying game adventure "A Doomsday Like Any Other", FASA explored the idea that a second Doomsday Machine that had a small crew area AND an external remote control type artifact. As much as I loved that RPG adventure, I still felt that it was dimished to yet another superweapon to be fought over by the Federation and the Rhihannsu.

But what about the other extragalactic races? Tholians are a canon race and I don't recall any canon evidence supporting SFB's idea they aren't from our galaxy. No Tholian superweapons on screen were ever mentioned to my knowledge either. The Andromedans? SFB is not canon BUT even SFB recognized the fear factor involved in having ships that may only be crewed by emotionless automatatons LONG before the TNG introduced us to the Borg. I also don't recall reading anything where Andromedans ships had ever been captured during a battle as the power absorption panels turned beaming parties into extra energy for those panels. That is scary! The canon TOS Andromedans, again weren't souless automatatons and could be negotiated with.

Back to the Doomsday Machine.

IIRC the orginal planet killer drifted into the gravitational pull of a nearby star before TOS science ships could arrive to examine it.

Qapla!

KF

[FleetCaptainFrost]

According to the recent "Ships of the Line" book (not canon, I know, but..) the Doomsday Machine once "...looked much different.  It had once bristled with weapons and armor..." and that after an untold amount of time, "...its gleaming armor and defensive weapons were eroded away, leaving only a battered shell of impenetrable neutronium and an antiproton beam weapon."

I like the design; personally I'd go with a bit more "spikey" look, but otherwise it's an interesting take on the idea that the Doomsday Machine we saw in TOS was a pale shadow, albeit an incredibly destructive one, of its former self.

[Atolm-Rising]

Atolm: Excellent technical drawing to be sure. In an alternate Trek universe it is probably a very sound idea set you have in mind.

Thanks much, as always

Personally, I don't like it as an alternate planet killer model.  Maybe for the Whale Probe race in ST: IV would be a better fit with what you have in mind.

How do you except that conclusion vs the DDM one?

However, aside from the newly remastered version, I really don't like the other variations of the Doomsday Machine I've seen online either. One version looks really bad; like a cross between a tadpole and a sperm cell, IMHO.

Why don't I like the other variations?

In TOS the Doomsday Machine was an ancient, neutronium armored robot. It had no crew. It was an automated engine of destruction that once unleashed there was no turning it back or stopping it. It was meant to be an analogous to our planets own planet killers; thermonuclear weapons and the Cold War era threat of nuclear war. Game over.

To add crew or other familar features found on human/iod starships really takes away from its awe inspiring alieness of the planet killer and deminishes the fear factor. It may have looked different fresh out of the assembly yard but I don't think it would have been that different. Neutronium is super dense and very tough stuff. Why does its builder have to be presumably humanlike any way? What if its builders were giant, Cthulhu-like entities that built as a disposable fire and forget weapon that happens to be the weapon that keeps on killing?

You have a chance to negotiate with an alien crew but not against a souless automaton. This very concept is what made the Terminator films very frightening.

Wait, wait, wait. What about V'ger?

V'Ger was willing to communicate because it was looking for its creator and the Whale Probe from ST: IV was probably crewed and was looking for Cetaceans to communicate with. It may have looked very different too off the assembly line.

Fear factor was/is errelavant... The DDM can be stopped relatively easily after the Events of the TOS ep.  of the same name.  Just because a race builds and sends a/an man/unmanned uber-weapon ...doesn't mean it/they can be reasoned with...bottom line is that someone had to build it and say "go".  Now there is no reason to say that the ship didn't look like something very(or seemingly very different) when it first was launched and changed by millions of years later.  So let's back-track some...The DDM came from outside of Galaxy from another...now it had to lay waste that galaxy in order for it to have been found in our (or transported somehow) or it would have been stopped.  So for centuries this mobile weapon (UCAV if you will) could have malfunctioned, and went on a rampage, met oppsition, fought battles, and continued on its interpretaion of its "original" program (Nomad and Vger come readily to mind)...So it would be NP to believe that the weapon and substructure was protected with that Neutronium...i mean maybe it was used to keep the weapon emmissions from destoying itself.  These are just ideas...To not like the design is fine (you know me by now...in a week or few I'll have another interpretation popped out...lol), but you cannot deny the prospect of what I proposed as a possibility.

In the 1980s FASA Trek roleplaying game adventure "A Doomsday Like Any Other", FASA explored the idea that a second Doomsday Machine that had a small crew area AND an external remote control type artifact. As much as I loved that RPG adventure, I still felt that it was dimished to yet another superweapon to be fought over by the Federation and the Rhihannsu.

But what about the other extragalactic races? Tholians are a canon race and I don't recall any canon evidence supporting SFB's idea they aren't from our galaxy. No Tholian superweapons on screen were ever mentioned to my knowledge either. The Andromedans? SFB is not canon BUT even SFB recognized the fear factor involved in having ships that may only be crewed by emotionless automatatons LONG before the TNG introduced us to the Borg. I also don't recall reading anything where Andromedans ships had ever been captured during a battle as the power absorption panels turned beaming parties into extra energy for those panels. That is scary! The canon TOS Andromedans, again weren't souless automatatons and could be negotiated with.

Can't say too much on the SFB stuff...its also a fan idea with as much merit as mine
What Canon Andromedeans...not the Kelvans ?  And the Borg cannot be negotiated for more than a few hours to days...But my statement holds that just because a weapon is manned doesn't mean it/they can be negotiated with...

According to the recent "Ships of the Line" book (not canon, I know, but..) the Doomsday Machine once "...looked much different.  It had once bristled with weapons and armor..." and that after an untold amount of time, "...its gleaming armor and defensive weapons were eroded away, leaving only a battered shell of impenetrable neutronium and an antiproton beam weapon."

I like the design; personally I'd go with a bit more "spikey" look, but otherwise it's an interesting take on the idea that the Doomsday Machine we saw in TOS was a pale shadow, albeit an incredibly destructive one, of its former self.

Thanx much , and I did not know that info...nice to have thanx...it too is fannon, but wtf right...I'll have to re-evaluate my design to have something more "interesting"

But in all fun, I like the different views on the DDM that some have posted...nicely done
Anyone else have any ideas/theories?

[Atolm-Rising]

BTW here is a link to another forum that I posted the design on:
http://scn.nov-net.com/index.php?topic=1113.0
I am very interested on the comments on this idea...and to hear/read what you mates think of the issue.
Thanks all

[Klingon Fanatic]

 

"According to the recent "Ships of the Line" book (not canon, I know, but..) the Doomsday Machine once "...looked much different.  It had once bristled with weapons and armor..." and that after an untold amount of time, "...its gleaming armor and defensive weapons were eroded away, leaving only a battered shell of impenetrable neutronium and an antiproton beam weapon."

I like the design; personally I'd go with a bit more "spikey" look, but otherwise it's an interesting take on the idea that the Doomsday Machine we saw in TOS was a pale shadow, albeit an incredibly destructive one, of its former self."

Sounds line Steve Jacksons OGRE to me...


+1 karma for a very entertaining topic Atolm-Rising!

BTW: Yes, I meant the TOS Kelvans from the Andromedan galaxy, LOL!

Keep those ideas coming.

KF

[Atolm-Rising]

"According to the recent "Ships of the Line" book (not canon, I know, but..) the Doomsday Machine once "...looked much different.  It had once bristled with weapons and armor..." and that after an untold amount of time, "...its gleaming armor and defensive weapons were eroded away, leaving only a battered shell of impenetrable neutronium and an antiproton beam weapon."

I like the design; personally I'd go with a bit more "spikey" look, but otherwise it's an interesting take on the idea that the Doomsday Machine we saw in TOS was a pale shadow, albeit an incredibly destructive one, of its former self."

Sounds line Steve Jacksons OGRE to me...


+1 karma for a very entertaining topic Atolm-Rising!

BTW: Yes, I meant the TOS Kelvans from the Andromedan galaxy, LOL!

Keep those ideas coming.

KF

lol thanx mate
Now I gotta do another DDM (as expected...lol)
thanks for the info and insight

[Atolm-Rising]

Updated design:

[Sirgod]

Atolm, first off good work there.

To me without reading your initial commentary, IT reminded me of two things, First, the Fury series of novels. Man How I would love to see a D2 server made with them as protagonist.

The other thing was a yet another TNG novel that had the Doomsday Machine built in response to the borg threat. I can rally see your design used in that setting.

Still, IT's a good design IMHO. The way I look at it, is as often as the Blue Plague has killed Romulans, we need a new good enemy.

Stephen talking smack, but appreciating the work done here.

[Rod ONeal]

Let's face it, the original DDM (or even the remastered one) isn't exactly aesthetically pleasing. I like the Ships of the Line explanation for why it's butt ugly. It makes sense. I also very much like your new design(s). The 2nd (updated) one could be a good TNG Juggernaut as well. I'm afraid that the poly count would be thru the roof though. The 1st one looks doable.

[Atolm-Rising]

Thanks Rod...the newer design can be easily be done too(if you are worried about the turrets...change them up some..i only opted that classic shape to show that they are turrets...lol)

[Darkseid]

Updated design:

OK that is the baddest @$$ Doomsday Machine I have ever seen in my entire life.  I picture like two or three of these flying in formation with an entire Alien fleet escorting them as they head to the heart of their enemies Galaxy.  I just wonder who the enemy was that made them build these monsters?  That would have been one hell of a war.

(actually Atolm, designing some ships to go with the design of this would be sweet.  Basically create the race of the builders lol, just an idea  )

How would it have actually traveled intergalactic space though?  If it required planets for fuel, then wouldn't have run out of gas in the intergalactic void?  Unless it's not as empty as we or I think it is.  Or maybe the Doomsday Machine has one hell of a LYPG (Light Year Per Gallon).  Either way I have a story brewing in my mind right now, about the War untold millenia ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away... and the possibility of more Doomsday Machines attacking our Galaxy... but I will have to find away of making them look like this and not the worn out one...

[ModelsPlease]

Looks like a Killer Carp from Hell 

[Rod ONeal]

I think it's episode 1, "In Harms Way" at Star Trek New Voyages where an alternate timeline gets created and the 1st doomsday machine doesn't get eliminated and spawns more.

P.S. Well, I see a lot of polies.  Not just the turrets, but also the vertebrae in what would be the caudal penducle area on a fish. The hull is in a couple of layers that'd need to be joined together, too.

[Darkseid]

I don't care how many polies it will be.  Because in the end it will be beautiful.

EDIT: here in my idea for this vessel...

"Untold millennia ago war waged between two distant Galaxies.  The Galaxies, known as NGC 4038 and NGC 4039 by Starfleet, collided with each other some 600 million years ago.  Both Galaxies were ruled by very powerful empires who didn’t much like the idea of sharing this newly formed “Antennae Galaxy” with one another and soon war broke out between the two superpowers. 

Both species were powerful in their own way but each had mastered the power of the Omega Molecule.  This enabled them to build massive starships with almost unlimited power.  But after the millennia long war had destroyed so much a last ditch effort was made.  The Species from NGC 4039 has constructed several large planet destroying devices.  These machines had one purpose: Destroy the enemy’s core worlds.

The machines were forged from pure neutronium making them invulnerable to attack.  It’s main weapon was an energy beam or pure antiprotons which was powerful enough not only to penetrate the enemies planetary shields, but also cut the planet into pieces.  Once broken down, the machines would use the pieces as fuel, ensuring that it could continue to other enemy worlds.

Unfortunately the weapons worked too well.  Once the war had ended the machines were deactivated and used as monuments to the devastation wrought by the wars, but several of them had fallen into the wrong hands.  Several machines found there way into the hands of rebels and pirates, who used them to continue waging war against their creators.  Eventually they wiped everything out, leaving the Galaxy devoid of life.  But their programming remained.  Once the Galaxy was emptied, they headed for intergalactic space, to reach other galaxies and destroy all life.

One such craft reached the Milky Way galaxy in 2267.  The device was intercepted by the Federation Starship USS Constellation when it discovered the device breaking down and consuming two planets in the L-370 star system.  This machine had been badly disfigured during it’s journey from galaxy to galaxy.  All that remained was it’s neutronium core which protected the antiproton beam.  It proved to be invulnerable to Starfleet Phaser weapons and nearly destroyed the USS Constellation. 

The USS Enterprise answered the Constellation’s distress call and engaged the machine, which Captain James T. Kirk referred to as the “Doomsday Machine”.  Commodore Matthew Decker of the USS Constellation, mad with desperation and guilt for the loss of his ship and crew, attempted a suicide run by ramming a stolen shuttlecraft from the Enterprise, down the Doomsday Machine’s maw. 

Although it did little to no affect, it gave the crew of the Enterprise the idea to try the stunt again, this time using the USS Constellation.  They rammed the Constellation down the Machines maw and detonated it’s impulse engines.  The resulting explosion had had no affect on the Neutronium hull, but was able to destroy the antiproton weapon inside.

Unknowing to Starfleet at the time, the severely damaged Doomsday Machine sent out a distress call of it’s own through Hyperspace, alerting the remaining devices to the threat of the Milky Way galaxy.  These devices are now currently on a course with our galaxy, ready to finish what their fallen comrade started…"

[Atolm-Rising]

I dunno...not too bad so far:
 

[Klingon Fanatic]

  ROFL

PARAPHRASING: TOS Doomsday machine "a windsock dipped in cement" The remastered version; "A more sophisticated windsock dipped in cement"

- Norman Spinrad author/script writer of TOS The Doomsday machine. His commentary is found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=758fT5Ov590&mode=related&search=

The Moby Dick/Captain Ahab undertone was excellent in the episode.

KF