Topic: So a war is coming. Whataya gonna do?

[GDA-S'Cipio]

So you've had a nice little quiet career.   You've got a command, you've earned the respect of your crew, and the Crown (president; whatever) knows he can depend upon you.  That's all find and dandy, but it's not enough to make List and everyone knows it.  You think about this a lot at night, alone with your brandy, but you butted heads against a few people with better sponsorship in your youth and now it appears your career has stagnated unless you do something big.  Really big.

Now the Crown (president; whatever) has come to a group of officers like you and told you that a war with your neighbors is considered inevitable.  The good news is that you truly believe your neighbors need killing.  (They look funny and they have bad accents.)  The bad news is that you, the Crown (president; whatever), and everyone else in the room know that your stellar nation is not ready for a war.

The crown orders you to act as a Privateer and go forth to do damage to your neighbors.  They must be weakened before war is declared.  However, the Crown (wussmaster; whatever)  will deny any knowledge of your actions and -- if you are captured -- the Crown will hang you at your neihgbor's request in order to prove what a friendly guy (gal, neuter; whatever) he is to his neighbors.

That's it.  That's the whol setup.

Now, it's day one of the server.  Amazingly enough the SFC engine has been expanded to let you do whatever you want in this new scenario.  So, what do you want to do?  What sort of things do you think a privateer could do to damage an empire's ability to wage war?  Do you want to raid commerce?  Sabotage fleet units?  Seduce the neighbor King's daughter (son, cell divisions; whatever)?  Foment rebellion?

I'm looking for thoughts.  The wilder the better, but have it make sense in context of the scenario.

-S'Cipio

[KBFLordKrueg]

So you've had a nice little quiet career.   You've got a command, you've earned the respect of your crew, and the Crown (president; whatever) knows he can depend upon you.  That's all find and dandy, but it's not enough to make List and everyone knows it.  You think about this a lot at night, alone with your brandy, but you butted heads against a few people with better sponsorship in your youth and now it appears your career has stagnated unless you do something big.  Really big.

Now the Crown (president; whatever) has come to a group of officers like you and told you that a war with your neighbors is considered inevitable.  The good news is that you truly believe your neighbors need killing.  (They look funny and they have bad accents.)  The bad news is that you, the Crown (president; whatever), and everyone else in the room know that your stellar nation is not ready for a war.

The crown orders you to act as a Privateer and go forth to do damage to your neighbors.  They must be weakened before war is declared.  However, the Crown (wussmaster; whatever)  will deny any knowledge of your actions and -- if you are captured -- the Crown will hang you at your neihgbor's request in order to prove what a friendly guy (gal, neuter; whatever) he is to his neighbors.

That's it.  That's the whol setup.

Now, it's day one of the server.  Amazingly enough the SFC engine has been expanded to let you do whatever you want in this new scenario.  So, what do you want to do?  What sort of things do you think a privateer could do to damage an empire's ability to wage war?  Do you want to raid commerce?  Sabotage fleet units?  Seduce the neighbor King's daughter (son, cell divisions; whatever)?  Foment rebellion?

I'm looking for thoughts.  The wilder the better, but have it make sense in context of the scenario.

-S'Cipio

Well, I kinda like the "seduce the King's daughter thing, but...that wouldn't make for good gameplay, huh? 
Interesting idea...I like it.
Well, first thing I'd insist on from my King (or whatever) is premo, top of the line ship (and crew) to carry out said actions (assuming raiding or base destruction, etc).
And of course, the payoff after said deed is done had darn well make it worth the risk. 
Playing another neighbor against the one in question...that way your "hands are clean" is my favorite...

[Hexx]

So I'd kinda be disavowing myself?

[Bartok]

Hmmmmmm,

You've whetted my appetite S'cipio - a decent backtory is what's needed for a server to be really fun... to have a "reason" to be.  The fan fiction you've penned (by the way when's the next installment) assures me that if you put up a server, admin it or whatever it's going to be well thought out..... without an endless balancing of ships/stats and just a good ole immersive storyline that justifies whatever get's flown / is flyable....

That being said -

- I concur with LK "playing one neighbor off the other" to foment breaks of alliances ... flatten the field so to speak.  Feds masquerading as Roms attacking Klinks or any number of fun permutations.... 

- Privateers / Privateering - Hmmm some souped up pirate vessels (presumabley every power has captured some - used as testbeds - Xtech) -- gives the top of the line (engine doubling?) ship to use

- 3rd party aggressors/mercenaries - Mr. Morden walks in the room of the Klink Chancellor and asks "What do you Want?"  (maybe sneak some Shadow vessels B5 into it)

Anyhow .... my preliminary $.02

Cheers   

[Julin Eurthyr]

You want an idea on how to do this... 

Go with a mixed up shiplist.  Each race has their usual stuff (or a specialty-ship heavy subset of it), and a mixture of "enemy" ships (line / command) added in.

The trick is that "native" ships have to stay in hexes of their own color, while the "enemy" ships really need to be out in enemy (or neutral) territory. 

Now, an example of all this:

The Klingons.  Their shiplist would have the usual Fx, Dx, Cx series, possibly heavier on -D, -V -G and -C/L variants.  Meanwhile, there would be a smattering of Fed and Hydran line (command too?) ships in the Klingon yards.

A pilot in a Klingon hull would have to stay in red Klingon hexes, while the Klingon-owned Feds / Hydrans have to spend as much time as possible in the neutral zones / attacking enemy space.  They should only return to "home" hexes for a resupply run / sale, and if there is a 90% available "on demand" repair / resupply mission that can be run often in enemy space, the only time a privateer should "go home" is to sell the ship.

As far as RP goes, here's the rationale:
As you said, war really ain't an option.  Therefore, if a native ship flies off into a neutral zone or "enemy" territory, there's that act of war that everyone's trying to avoid.  So, native ships need to stay in hexes of their own color.
Meanwhile, the privateer fleets are off in enemy space.  Since they're flying "enemy" designs in "enemy" space, they'll look (at least to the natives of a hex) that the current government is a corrupt morass with hideous allies, and they would eventually seek the protection of the other team, who would fly their native ships in to reinforce the now-appropriate colored hex (explains the hex flip nicely, doesn't it... :p).

[Alphageek]

Lots of shipping raids.  Lots of  hitting small police units. 

[Bartok]

As far as RP goes, here's the rationale:
As you said, war really ain't an option.  Therefore, if a native ship flies off into a neutral zone or "enemy" territory, there's that act of war that everyone's trying to avoid.  So, native ships need to stay in hexes of their own color.
Meanwhile, the privateer fleets are off in enemy space.  Since they're flying "enemy" designs in "enemy" space, they'll look (at least to the natives of a hex) that the current government is a corrupt morass with hideous allies, and they would eventually seek the protection of the other team, who would fly their native ships in to reinforce the now-appropriate colored hex (explains the hex flip nicely, doesn't it... :p).

Very Nicely done Julin!!! - Often times the way the map works etc. can be a liability/restraint in setting up a decent scenario I like the way this works .... bravo!  EvilDave does have a "resupply/repair" type mission that can work in neutral hexes right?  would be awesome.  I also like Alpha's suggestion of shipping raids and police units.... 

[KBF MalaK]

If my empire ain't ready for war:

1. I'm certainly not going to get top of the line ships
2. support for large cap ships is going to be spotty at best.
3. I won't be getting infinite reloads of my 'perishibles' (missles, photon torps, fighters, spare parts)
4. legendary crew members ?? no way, jose !
5 dern pirates keep raiding my supplies.

get the idea ?

[Alphageek]

Apart from being low on line ships ( i.e. having light cruisers and smaller as your main ships), is there a difference between hitting civilian and military shipping?  What about  hitting civilian privateers and police?  Would there be a difference?

[KBFLordKrueg]

And I was thinking in terms of "top of the line ship" as a decent Command Cruiser...
Maybe with a hand-picked crew.
Such a risky assignment would definitely call for choosing officers you knew and had experience to increase your chances of success. 
Capitol ships would attract too much attention and are obviously too expensive to replace for the Empire in such a endeavor.

[CaptJosh]

CapitAl ships, damnit. Capitol is for ONE THING and ONE THING only. Seats of government.

[Julin Eurthyr]

If my empire ain't ready for war:

1. I'm certainly not going to get top of the line ships
2. support for large cap ships is going to be spotty at best.
3. I won't be getting infinite reloads of my 'perishibles' (missles, photon torps, fighters, spare parts)
4. legendary crew members ?? no way, jose !
5 dern pirates keep raiding my supplies.

get the idea ?

But why (and Herr Burt didn't tell us why) is your nation not ready for war?
Your description looks like, say, the Federation during the early 4-powers war (before GW buildups).
Here's a nation / empire / hegemony that's not ready for war because they just ended one...
1.  The fleet is devastated from long-term conflict.  About all that's left in the fleet are the expensive "specialty" ships that see limited use (bombardment / commando) or are overprotected (carrier).  Line and attrition (escort, FF) ships are rare due to losses.
2.  Despite the costs, continued solo operation of capital ships (DNs, CCs) may be necessary due to line losses.
2.5: Nobody will advertise these weaknesses, so seeing a privateer line ship will not be questioned...
3.  Munitions / attrition unit (fighter) stockpiles may be high due to wartime production.  Look at how much surplus 'Nam - WW II munitions the US Army has...
4.  Legendary officers will be a dime a dozen, as the fleet just ended a period of intense combat.  Crew rosters probably will be depleted, and due to necessary recent transfers / fresh crewmen being trained, crew cohesion on a shipboard level will be poor, nullifying officer bonuses...
5.  You too can be a privateer raiding someone else's supplies...

[KBF MalaK]

Just speculation around this opening statement:

So you've had a nice little quiet career

I theorize that:
peace with my neighbors has been shaky but long lasting
so
large cap ships have been mothballed as they weren't needed for police actions of the past few years, and production of new ships/technologies/weapons and fighters has been halted so that funds could be used for less militaristic purposes, and as no large military actions took place recently no legendary crew members floated to the top of the personnel pool.

This just seemed a logical assumption based on the 'nice quiet career' statement.

But as we've seen from the collapse of the Soviet Union a war was needed to save that 'empire' as they we're building up for a conflict that never materialized, SO this must be the premise YOU assume- that your empire forced a war as you have the latest hardware, the best trained crews, unlimited supplies, and the need to use them lest your populace overthrow you because of funds mismanagement.

But I could be mistaken.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

CapitAl ships, damnit. Capitol is for ONE THING and ONE THING only. Seats of government.

Hey Mr. spellchecker is back! 

[Julin Eurthyr]

Just speculation around this opening statement:

So you've had a nice little quiet career

I theorize that:
peace with my neighbors has been shaky but long lasting
so
large cap ships have been mothballed as they weren't needed for police actions of the past few years, and production of new ships/technologies/weapons and fighters has been halted so that funds could be used for less militaristic purposes, and as no large military actions took place recently no legendary crew members floated to the top of the personnel pool.

This just seemed a logical assumption based on the 'nice quiet career' statement.

But as we've seen from the collapse of the Soviet Union a war was needed to save that 'empire' as they we're building up for a conflict that never materialized, SO this must be the premise YOU assume- that your empire forced a war as you have the latest hardware, the best trained crews, unlimited supplies, and the need to use them lest your populace overthrow you because of funds mismanagement.

But I could be mistaken.

Good call...

Thing is, I was working from a premise (stated in the 3rd line of my post) that a war recently (like a year or 2 ago) ended.

Hence the situation.  Line portion of fleet devastated, fancy ships only thing left to work with.  Lots of legendary officers, working with green - barely veteran crews essentially being a wash.  Wartime production resulting in large stockpiles of consumable materials, though maybe not 100% updated (fast drones could be rare, but medium drones could be stockpiled).

And, to top it off, the character in the story could be that "graduated head of class just before / during / right after the armistices were signed" type.  With all that training and potential, his quiet desk-job career comes to a halt when he gets the offer to head off in a captured / reconstructed enemy ship to be the swashbuckler...

[AlchemistiD]

Steal the ship, make money privateering.

Or is stealing the ship just your cover story?

Either way is fun.

[CaptJosh]

What can I say, Tobin. This was the third webboard in one day on which I had seen the same mistake. I couldn't take it anymore.

[GDA Valcarve]

Throw cows at them!

Or how about adding some Q ships to catch those sneaky privateers.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Smaller buffer empires, they sit betweeen the major powers and the various factions look for aid from either one of the other of their larger neighbors.  These smaller empires are really below the concern of the majors except for 2 things, natural reasourses and spacedock and supply facilities.

Your empire would benefit from being the puppet-master of these smaller regimes, but a full scale invasion would ignite the war you are not ready for, so you get your guys into power.  How do you do this?  Some smaller ships (frigate sized or PFs)  disguised as pirates or native vessels, if you need larger ships you have to  pay off neutral pirates to hit the other guy, but know they could doublecross you if you don't watch them carefully.  You provide financial aid and arms to your faction sending in innocent looking trade and humanitarian convoys which can only be escorted by specially designed Q-ships or local vessels as your military presence must be undetected.

Of course you may have occassion to send in one larger "diplomatic cruiser" of your own race, but these would have to stay in the zone between your empire and the capital of the smaller state since any further movement would definatly be considered an act of war.  These would act as enforcers should the enemy try to penetrate too deeply into the smaller space empire and approach your own borders.

Of Course once you secure a smaller empire you can "encourage" it to wage war on those neighboring smaller empires that you suspect your larger enemy is pulling the strings of, or to take over another non-alignment smaller state.  Having completed your conquest of the smaller state you are now able to scale up their military production using your own superior military capabilities and produce some local cruisers that are comparable to your own line forces.

Anyway, thats kinda my idea war and conqust through proxy.

[CaptJosh]

Call the server "A Private Little War" in that case.

You're basically setting up a Cold War scenario, with brush wars in Korea and Vietnam, as well as "border incidents" and "renegades acting without orders."

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Hi, all:

I had to unexpectedly leave town to deal with the death of my grandmother (87 years old; survived by a brother (93), two children, four grandchildren, seven great-grandchildren; and lived exactly the way she wanted to her entire life) so I haven't had a chance to reply to this post.  I didn't even call Chuut and Agave to explain what was going on, like I should have.

But, back on topic:  I love the idea of trying to run raids and blame it on another empire.  As every school child knows, there is only one excuse better than, "It was broken when I came in!", and that excuse is, "He did it!".  I'll definitely try to work something like that in.

The backstory will need some filling in and I'm still working all that out as I try to develop the story of the server.  There are any number of reasons why your empire wouldn't yet be ready for war.  The one that set me off was reading about the Romulans at the outbreak of the General War.  They couldn't openly support the Klingons during the first few years of the war because their fleet was outdated and they were in the midst of completely retooling it.  However, they did send several ships across the Federation border for raids and--when confronted--claimed that these ships were privateers acting without their government's permision.

For now assume that your empire (peace-oving federation; whatever) simply doesn't feel like it has the economy or hardware to successfully wage a war of conquest.  The crown (president; whatever) *IS* working on it, but in the meantime he relies on you to keep the enemy from getting ready as fast as your side can.

I'd love to see you guys tell me more aobut what you'd do in the situation described.  The more goals I know that you'd go after if you were really there, the more roleplaying victory conditions I can design for the campaign.  (Like the sort of things I tried to do for Eco War, only better)

-S'Cipio

[Hexx]

Condolences on your loss Scippy, no worries about not posting, everyone knows family has to come way before anything like this.

The server planning on using pirate ships (boo!hiss!) or Warships (YAY! STL's All Round!) ?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Sorry to hear about your grandmother Scippy, I know how dear she was to your entire family.  But you are correct in your assessment of her having had a wonderful life I think.

P.S.  I recieved the picture of your lovely daughter the other day, keep me posted on how the new experiences of aby raising are going.

[Ternado]

too many rules,too much sfb rules thingy,too many,too many.Play the game,as it was intended to play.Big map.  1 ship. geeesss

[CaptJosh]

Ternado, what are babbling about? They haven't even started on rules. This is brainstorming for a scenario.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Valcarve!!!  How ya doing, bro?

Throw cows at them!

OK, that gives me ideas....... <snicker>

Or how about adding some Q ships to catch those sneaky privateers.

Additional chance of meeting AI Q ships does sound logical.  As would the chance of flying them, if people wanted.

-S'Cipio

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Condolences on your loss Scippy, no worries about not posting, everyone knows family has to come way before anything like this.

The server planning on using pirate ships (boo!hiss!) or Warships (YAY! STL's All Round!) ?

Thanks, Hexx.  Probably some of both available, but this time around I think the server definitely calls for some warships.

-S'Cipio

[GDA-S'Cipio]

<snip>

Big ideas that require some thought, but some good ones.  I think I can work with some of this in some form.

So, if you were a captain in the galaxy you describe, what would be your first act?

LATE EDIT:  Feel free to make stuff up.  For example, "The minor planet Omicron is near the border and has historically had trouble with pirates.  I want to increase 'piracy' around them to the level that they can't live with.  Hopefully they'll give up on their current government and ask mine for protection."


-S'Cipio

[GDA-S'Cipio]

too many rules,too much sfb rules thingy,too many,too many.Play the game,as it was intended to play.Big map.  1 ship. geeesss

Not to worry about rules.  I want to run this sort the way I did Eco War.  It had tons of rules, but you didn't have to know any of them.  They gave you extra opportunities; they did not place extra restrictions on you.  You may have logged on one day to find that your cartel had merged with another; but your ship was still your ship, your space was still your space, and the ships you had been wanting to buy were still in the yards.

If all you want to do is log onto a big map with one ship, fly whatever you can buy in the yard, and attack whatever you can reach, that will be perfectly legal and *will* help your team.  If you want to read the rules, they will outline other roleplay type things you can do to win more points for your team.  But you don't have to read any of them and you will never break any rules simply by logging on and playing.

-S'Cipio

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Sorry to hear about your grandmother Scippy, I know how dear she was to your entire family.  But you are correct in your assessment of her having had a wonderful life I think.

P.S.  I recieved the picture of your lovely daughter the other day, keep me posted on how the new experiences of aby raising are going.

Thanks, Brother Chuut.  It was a big loss for me.  She was truly the family matriarch in my youth and at the center of every holiday and special time.  You are right to remind me of my daughter, though.  It's best to concentrate on the new lives we've gained rather than dwell on the well-lived lives that have left us behind.

So you liked the picture of Kaitlyn did you?  You know, <enter father mode> I've got more.   

-S'Cipio

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

To Nimrod:

The infiltration by Romulan agents on the planet greater than expected, we can no longer realistically expect the monachy there to hold power, rebellion is growing at a franctic rate and the kings forces will likely not be able to maintain power till the end of the year.  Although our contacts report that there is still a great deal of widespread support for the dundimentally benevolent Constitutional monachy, the increased funding of the opposed rebel groups by the Romulans via their pirate proxies seems to indicate that further direct assistance is futile.  Even now these pirates control the space surrounding the planet and we just managed to slip out through their patrols without being boarded, thanks to the quick thinking Orion mercenary who is sharing this command with me. 

The throne realizes well this situation and has inquired about the possibility of Federation supported forces evacuating the imperial family and court as well as command elements of the imperial forces, to set up a government in exile on neighboring system Falnak III which is controled by another member of the family, and could act as a staging area for a future assault to reclaim Cadcar IV. 

I have attatched the imperial proposal along with my assessemnt of the required reasources and chance of sucess.  While the rebel warships are only able to make warp 1,  the pirate ships are well armed and of modern design in the sector so I would like to emhasize that the requsted freighers all be able to make warp 3 and preferably warp 4. If such are not available the chances of sucess dwindle considerably but there is still a signifigant chance of sucesss as the move will be unexpected.

Horace Denton, former captain USS. Warspite, (retired)

----------------

Scenario as described above, captain must lead in a force of freighters and beam out multiple targets from planet dodging limited planetary defenses and pirate patrols, his ships might include freighters of differing speeds forcing him to make a hard descision whether to run off with the fast ones leaving the smaller ones prey to the incoming pirates aand rebel forces, or to stay and fight knowing that if the fight takes too long the slower rebel forces might actually be able to participate in the battle. 

A sucessful raid would dimish the enemy control over the planet (and their VCs from it) as those forces still loyal to the throne would have a government in exile to place their hopes upon and use as a rallying cry.

Perhaps the rebels have captured the royal family already and are holding them on an orbiting station awaiting execution and you will have to rescue them from there, or at least blow up the station  and claim that you rescued  at least some of the royal family.  It may not be necessary to actually save any of them as your agents can create convincing audio and video fakes that are good enough to dupe the populance of the planet.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Another thought, have certain VC hexes spread over the map that represent certain resources. If you controll all these areas you have cornered the market on these resources and can reap greater reward.  Think Risk here, or monopoly.  I could see several such sets and each one of different value.  Maybe the smallest requiring only 2 or 3 hexes and the largest perhaps 7 with rewards in proportion.  The hexes of any one of these groupings should be spread out a bit (although with larger ones a couple hexes could be placed close together.

The rationale is, you can't go to war yet, but you can start hoarding resources via the markets of the minor independent states.  After major war does brek out of course whoever owns the territiory can bleed it of its resources, but until then controlling the market to ensure your industries get what they need in preparation for war is important as well.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Additional thought.  If you can deepstrike certain predetermined targets and flip them to your color during a period in the campaign and provide a screenshot, then at the beginning of the next period the GM will place a 50 DV hex of neutral territory there at the beginning of the next game period, and the former controlling power will not recieve VCs for that area until they flip it back as the insurgency has disrupted production.    I would suggest colony planets or asteroid hexes as possible targets.  Perhaps with starting values of about 25.  There would be no real reason for the deepstriker to boost after flipping the hex as there work would have been done already.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I'm looking for thoughts.  The wilder the better, but have it make sense in context of the scenario.

Well I am going to stock up on cabin boys and BF my way to glory.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I'm looking for thoughts.  The wilder the better, but have it make sense in context of the scenario.

Well I am going to stock up on cabin boys and BF my way to glory.

Good to see ya still around Kroma, he asked for wild I think you just gave it to him 

+1 to you, although clicking the "Engage" button did make me hesitate a second.   

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I'm looking for thoughts.  The wilder the better, but have it make sense in context of the scenario.

Well I am going to stock up on cabin boys and BF my way to glory.

Good to see ya still around Kroma, he asked for wild I think you just gave it to him 

+1 to you, although clicking the "Engage" button did make me hesitate a second.   

I'm not going anywhere *near* Kroma's "engage" button.

-S'Cipio the scared

[KBF MalaK]

Communications officer: Send this message to High Command,

To Nimrod:

The infiltration by Romulan agents on the planet greater than expected, we can no longer realistically expect the monachy there to hold power, rebellion is growing at a franctic rate and the kings forces will likely not be able to maintain power till the end of the year.  Although our contacts report that there is still a great deal of widespread support for the dundimentally benevolent Constitutional monachy, the increased funding of the opposed rebel groups by the Romulans via their pirate proxies seems to indicate that further direct assistance is futile.  Even now these pirates control the space surrounding the planet and we just managed to slip out through their patrols without being boarded, thanks to the quick thinking Orion mercenary who is sharing this command with me. 

The throne realizes well this situation and has inquired about the possibility of Federation supported forces evacuating the imperial family and court as well as command elements of the imperial forces, to set up a government in exile on neighboring system Falnak III which is controled by another member of the family, and could act as a staging area for a future assault to reclaim Cadcar IV. 

I have attatched the imperial proposal along with my assessemnt of the required reasources and chance of sucess.  While the rebel warships are only able to make warp 1,  the pirate ships are well armed and of modern design in the sector so I would like to emhasize that the requsted freighers all be able to make warp 3 and preferably warp 4. If such are not available the chances of sucess dwindle considerably but there is still a signifigant chance of sucesss as the move will be unexpected.

Horace Denton, former captain USS. Warspite, (retired)

Chancellor,
  Luckily our agents haven't been discovered aiding the Romulans and all is proceeding as planned. We have managed to slip a homing beacon aboard one of their freighters hoping it will lead us to the merc base thats been the staging area for the recent raids in this sector. With a bit of luck we'll have the location of their storehouses soon but I fear the recent capture of the sabatuer aboard my ship may hamper our efforts. Attached is an intercepted communicque outlining possible Federation involvment and with my diminishing supplies and cloak instability I respectfully request immidiate reinforcements once the mercenary base has been located. Please inform Admiral kreug I suspect the merc base can be used as a resupply point for our fleet to repel the imminent fereration invasion.

Respectfully,
Capt. K'Malak