Topic: Klingon D-7/Ktinga Class

[Scottish Andy]

Don, I think you will find this site of immense help.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Portal:Main

It is a fan-compiled Wiki database of canon Star Trek. I use it constantly. Type in your search item (like "J-25 system") and you'll get all the data on it, as well as back-stage data and speculation.

[Don Karnage]

it seem the defiant was build after wolf 359, but noting about the J-25 system, beside Ben the first time the federation encounter the Borg, since the fed did loose a lot of ship after wolf 359 it seem that was the reason the defiant was build, the first time the did not have reason to build the defiant, the only try to change the polarity of the phaser to compensate but was not enough to stop the Borg, after that seem a god reason for building the defiant, a more powerfull ship and fast, the Galaxy class was not build for war but exploration, and no other fed ship was build for war, a BoP was not powerfull enough for it and no other Klingon or romulan would be small, fast and have the firepower.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Remember what Shelby said, we have been working on new technologies (eg new weapons, new ships) but they won't be ready for another 18 months.

[Don Karnage]

i check some pics of ds9's battles and was wondering beside the Galaxy  class, Excelsior and Miranda class, what other class where in battle at Wolf 359 and the other battles the fed have, like the one agains the klingon and the dominion war?

[CC22]

In DS9 the K'T'Inga fired a disruptor from the torpedo recess, not an ion cannon. That is the remit of games, not canon Star Trek.
The D7 is thought to have torpedos since its now being established all major Klingon warships from before Enterprise (the series) to TNG have photon torpedoes. It is never seen on TOS being fired, though, and indeed the same recess on the D7 was designed as a deflector ala NCC-1701 style, but again that is not confirmed on screen. TMP saw the first on screen use of Klingon photons. The torpedoes fired by the BofP in ST3 to me appear in keeping with the original Romulan origins of the class in that it appears to be a plasma weapon. But again it is supposed to be photonic in nature I guess.
As for the mass of B5 - I have always considered this incorrect, despite what is said on the begining titles! It is 5 miles long and is a spinning metal monster with no anti grav technology constructed of materials that would be familier to todays scientists (what with B5 tech being decidedly lower than that of Trek) It must weigh more surely! Also I thought the mass of the Enterprise A to be rather small considering its size and what is meant to be contained within it!

[Don Karnage]

in the fsb the D7 have phaser 2 and not much weapons, the constitution have phaser 1 and make it a bether ship, so i was wondering since the D7 is as much powerfull as the constitution how come it got phaser 2 instead of phaser 1?

[Lieutenant_Q]

Count the Weapons...

K-D7- 9 Phaser 2s, 4 Disrupter 3s, 2 Drone - F Racks

F-CA - 6 Phaser 1s, 4 Photon Torpedoes

As you can see, the K-D7 has an edge over the F-CA in firepower

K-D7C - 6 Phaser 2s, 3 Phaser 1s, 4 Disrupter 3s, 2 Drone - B? racks, 1 ADD12

F-CC - 8 Phaser 1s, 2 Phaser 3s, 4 Photon Torpedoes, 1 Drone - G Rack, 1 ADD6

A little more balanced.

[Scottish Andy]

In DS9 the K'T'Inga fired a disruptor from the torpedo recess, not an ion cannon. That is the remit of games, not canon Star Trek.

In the DS9 episode itself, CC22, the beam coming from the photon tube is red. Bright, deep, red. Klingon (and Romulan) disruptors are green. in DS9, Federation phasers and photons are yellow-orange (though that may just have been your crappy quality NTSC TV instead of the superior PAL  ). In STII, Federation phasers are orange-red.

Ergo, the K't'ingas are not firing disruptors or standard phasers. I'll grant that maybe the finally developed those Klingon Heavy phasers, though. My saying it is an ion cannon is indeed fanon speculation, but disrupters they ain't.

Don, the SFB K-D7 is a superb attack ship. Massive and varied weaponry suite, of phasers, heavy disruptors, and drones. That these ships only have Ph2s is a range limit only. Klingons like to get in close, and up close the Ph2s have only slightly less power. Plus, the Ph2s are listed as offensive/defensive phasers. They can take out drones at greater ranges, or be used to come up close and shatter your shield because the Klink has so many of them. The Federation's Ph1s (in early, at least) only gives them a range advantage. Besides, I'd rather have the D7.

7x Ph2s (covering ALL arcs and allowing at a broadside of 5 from almost any angle), 4x Disr 3s, 2xDrn As.

Put that against the SFB F-CA.

6x Ph1 (allowing a broadside of 2, but the rear arcs are blocked at critical angles giving NO coverage), 2x Phot.

Add into that the far better manoeuverabiliy of the D7 and the F-CA's shield and hull advantage is neatly countered, and quite often superseded. In the Early era (no refits) the Federation has a range and endurance advantage. The Klingons have a "weight of firepower" and manoeuvreability advantage. Each side tries to play to their own strengths and get the enemy to the disadvantage.

This, my friends, is the main reason SFC1/2/OP is far better than SFC3. In SFC3, everyone is armed the same, with a the Feds at a cloaking disadvantage. In the Pre-3 games, different strengths and weaknesses meant it was about skill, strategy & tactics. Different strengths and weaknesses meant you had to fly differently for each race. I got rid of SFC3 after completing the single-player campaign and a few frustrating online games.

Pre-3 Rules!

[Rod ONeal]

From what I've read when Steve Cole (SFB owner) looked at the FJ schematics for the Connie and the D-7 he said the D-7 was "bristling" with phasers. The phaser 2 was invented to balance the D-7 with the Connie. Obviously, if the D-7 had the same power phasers the Connie would be terribly outgunned

As mentioned, the D-7 was balanced using the Constitution. The Disruptor, in it's basic form, does 1/2 the damage of the photon, but fires twice as often. This gives the disadvantage to the disruptor though, who needs to hit the same shield twice to have the same effect as a single photon blast. Giving the D-7 better maneuverability and an extra point of power allows the D-7 captain to choose when and where to fight. Flown correctly with NO MISTAKES, the D-7 should always beat the Connie. One mistake though and the Connie can cripple a D-7 in a single volley.
Because of the single volley damage potential of the Connie you can keep the D-7 at bay and try to force a mistake to take advantage of. Beware though, if the Connie captain makes a mistake the D-7 can be down your throat instantly, because of the fast arming nature of it's weapons, and "hack & slash" you to death. Although, generally, you have an oppertunity to recover from one mistake because the D-7 can't cripple you in a single volley. The Connie is also, unlike the D-7 which is a bit fragile, a very durable ship with superior repair capabilities.
In SFB you also have the probability of a bad roll of the dice. This, all else being equal (no mstakes by either player), will generally give the advantage to the Connie and is also why a lot of people hate it so much. More than any other vessel you're playing craps when flying a photon armed ship.
The D-7's phasers fire mainly through the #s 2, 4, & 6 shields. This allows the D-7 to close with an opponent on it's #s 1, 3, or 5 shields and with only a 30 degree turn, bring a fresh shield and the bulk of it's weapons to bare. This is where the D-7's maneuverability and power curve comes into play. The Connie wants to centerline you. It builds up a head of steam and tries to steamroll you. Another of the design attributes of the Connie is it's designed to take an alpha strike from a D-7 and still have the weapons and power to chase it down and kill it.
Drones and shuttles (you need to combine the 2 to see where the balance is between the Connie and the D-7) add another layer to the tactics, but we won't go there now. We'll save that for a D-7 vs. Kzinti BC discussion.

 

[CC22]

(though that may just have been your crappy quality NTSC TV instead of the superior PAL  )

What makes you think I'm a yank/Canadian/anyone else who has NTSC? lol.

Also why isn't it a disruptor? Have they not changed the colour of phasers and torpedoes dozens of times? Plus we see red disruptors in TOS; why not believe that it is nothing more than an uprated disruptor? Something to jazz up an old design and make it more useful in combat instead of calling it some fanciful weapon that has never been seen before on Klingon ships in a Trek series or movie? FASA FSB et al is not canon eh.

By they by, hasn't the weather been so nice in good ol' Blighty anyways... sure been fine seeing the weather reports on my PAL TV lol.

[Scottish Andy]

Excellent analysis, Rod, and thank you for it. Seems bang on to me.

CC22, my humblest apologies! *grin* I had no idea (and didn't think to check) that you might be back 'ome in Blighty. But yes, NTSC is really pants. I have to admit, though, I never saw red Klingon disruptors in TOS. Are you referring to the 'area' special effect hand weapons used in 'Errand of Mercy'? I remember that the Enterprise under fire at Organia in that ep used the 'artillery shell' special effect, but we never saw a Klingon ship at all there. The D7 disruptors in 'Elaan of Troyius' were definitely green.

I suppose we could say that these 'red beam from the torpedo tube' in DS9 K't'ingas are actually Maulers...