Topic: Klingon D-7/Ktinga Class

[Don Karnage]

what is difference betwen the Klingon D-7 and the Ktinga class?

[Khalee1]

Size for one Ktinga is a little bit bigger than the D7

two kitinga has foward and aft torpedos D7 don't have any

three stronger sheilding

Four it's faster

in sfb turms the Ktinga is a first generation  x ship or the d7w if you don't buy into the Xships.

[Don Karnage]

ok thanks 

is there any info on the weapons on both ship?

[Atolm-Rising]

Uh...the TOS D7 is larger than the K'tinga...it has more mass
but yead the the TOS D7 has only a visible foward torp launcher, and it can fire disruptors fom its nacelle caps
the K'tinga has a more drawn-out and thought-out systems and details...

[Don Karnage]

the D-7 is tos and K'tinga is tmp?, i know the K'tinga is tmp only but is the D7 also tmp or did tehy replace it with the K'tinga class?

[Atolm-Rising]

the D-7 is tos and K'tinga is tmp?, i know the K'tinga is tmp only but is the D7 also tmp or did tehy replace it with the K'tinga class?

the D7 was refitted into the K'tinga according to backstage info(hence D7 K'tinga-class), but show-wise they are seperate entities...kinda

[ModelsPlease]

the D-7 is tos and K'tinga is tmp?, i know the K'tinga is tmp only but is the D7 also tmp or did tehy replace it with the K'tinga class?

the D7 was refitted into the K'tinga according to backstage info(hence D7 K'tinga-class), but show-wise they are seperate entities...kinda

FASA has them as seperate entities as well ...........

Star Trek Starship Tactical Combat Simulator On-Line Database & Archive
http://home.comcast.net/~ststcsolda/

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Interesting.

That site doesn't list the K'Vort.

[ModelsPlease]

Interesting.

That site doesn't list the K'Vort.

Maybe the L-42 is the K'vort for FASA ?

[Commander La'ra]

Depends on what source you're using.  FASA has the early D-7's with no torps, but a lot of FASA is just messed up.   ST Canon wise, the hole in the command hull is a torpedo launcher, so the D-7 clearly had one...I think we even saw them fired in one episode of Voyager. 

On the old blueprints done up in the '70's, the 'mouth' is the navigational deflector or a sensor array or something.

Basic idea is that the D-7 is to the Constitution what the K'tinga is to the Refitted Constitution (or Enterprise-class if you prefer).

[CC22]

The D7 is sveral metres longer than the later K'T'inga but I wouldn't say it had a greater mass. The later ship had more armour, uprated systems etc which would all add to its mass.

[Scottish Andy]

Speaking of mass, did you know that the entire Babylon 5 station is supposed to be 2.5 million tons? If so, how can the Galaxy class be almost 4 million tons if they are still just using the same duranium hullmetal as the 210,000 ton refitted Constitution class?

And yes, I know Scotty said she was "almost a million gross tons" and the 210K is from non-canon 'Ships of the Star Fleet'. 

[Lieutenant_Q]

Depends on what source you're using.  FASA has the early D-7's with no torps, but a lot of FASA is just messed up.   ST Canon wise, the hole in the command hull is a torpedo launcher, so the D-7 clearly had one...I think we even saw them fired in one episode of Voyager. 

On the old blueprints done up in the '70's, the 'mouth' is the navigational deflector or a sensor array or something.

Basic idea is that the D-7 is to the Constitution what the K'tinga is to the Refitted Constitution (or Enterprise-class if you prefer).

I only remember that D7 firing Disrupters in the VOY episode.

[Don Karnage]

in the tos episode the D7 does fire its disrupter at the enterprise, in the first movie the D7 was firing its aft torpedo, in st2 no Klingon ship are view, in st3 only a bop and its fire its forward torpedo, in st4 no weapons are use in st5 another bop and against its the torpedo and the disrupter, in st6 the D7 have not fire but only the bop and it fire torpedo  only, in st7 bot torpedo and disrupter from a bop, a bit weird that Klingon use only bop to attack the fed?

[Scottish Andy]

In TMP, the Klingon ship Amar fires three forward photorps at V'Ger and two aft photorps at V'ger's plasma torpedo before being "patterned for data storage". 

In STII, we see the three simulated K'tinga-classs ships (which were a simple reuse of the TMP footage) fire forward torpedoes at Saavik's Enterprise.

In STVI, the Kronos One warms up his forward torp launcher after they think Enterprise fired at them. Kronos One doesn't actually fire, but you see his forward photon tube glow red.

In DS9, there are multiple scenes from 'Way of the Warrior' showing the K't'ingas firing both ion cannons and photorps from that forward tube (though not both on the same ship).

As to why they use BoPs instead of K't'ingas to attack the Feds, maybe the Klingons were tired of losing resource-intensive cruisers and assigned all their stupidly aggressive ship captains to easily-replaceable B'rel-class PFs instead.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Praxis happened between TOS and DS9.  The Klingons started shifting more away from larger ships (although they still built their fair share of them.  One has to wonder if the destruction of Praxis forced the Klingons to go the way of the Hydrans and start building more and more attrition units.  Consider Bird of Preys (PFs or FFs) weren't all that common, although you saw a couple of them in the movies, until TNG.  They only debuted two new cruisers since the Ktinga in TMP.  The Vor'cha and the K'vort.  The K'vort is probably a light Cruiser, while the Vor'cha is definitely a Battle Cruiser.  Yet the Klingons field an ungodly number of B'rels.

B'rels can be built just about anywhere, in a short amount of time, leaving the larger shipyards to produce Vor'chas and Negh'vars.  Until Praxis the Klingons easily paced the Federation in Cruiser production, but when they lost Praxis, they realized that they couldn't keep up with them one on one.  So they concentrated on overwhelming them, while the Federation just kept building them bigger and bigger.  I don't think the Federation even considered a smaller design until the J-25 incident with the Borg.  Is it any wonder that, in Yesterday's Enterprise, the Federation was going to lose the war with the Klingons?  If they lost a half dozen B'rels for every Galaxy or Ambassador Class ships lost by the Federation, they'd be coming out even.

With a dozen B'rels escorting Vor'chas and the fact that a B'rel could suicide itself to take out a much larger ship, the Klingons had the right idea.

[Scottish Andy]

I agree up to a point, Q. Where I stop is your description of B'rels suiciding. Those are Jem'Hadar tactics, and I'm pretty sure the Klingons would find such tactics dishonourable.

Much is made of the Klingons' loss of Praxis. Losing one moon that was "their main energy production facility" does not stop a stellar empire every bit as big (or even bigger) than the UFP from having the resources to build battlecruisers. All you need for that is asteroids or planets to mine for resources and standard electronics-equivalent manufacturing capability.

If Praxis is their only or main dilithium mining project, then that would affect the number of ships they could power. A B'rel will use pretty much the same amount of dilithium as a K't'inga (based on the size of an Enterprise crystal as seen in 'The Alternative Factor' and the size of a B'rel crystal as seen in STIV), so I'd say if it is the number of ships that is limited, the Empire would build ships with far more capabilities than a B'rel. Battleships, instead of cruisers or fast patrol ships (PFs).

I'd just say that the cruisers of the Empire were off doing more important things. Putting down rebellions, conquering new planets, defending against active incursions by the Mirak, Hydrans, Sha'kurians, even Romulans (who thinks that Kang, Kor, or Koloth defeated the Roms at Klach D'kel Bracht from B'rels instead of K't'ingas?)

For patrolling the Fed border, where the Klinks know that the UFP is too spineless to attack them, they would assign squadrons of B'rels for patrol, supported by the occasional k't'inga if the situation got too heavy.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Especially when you've still got penal asteroids like Rura Penthe.

It is about the time of the Ent-B when Dilithium Crystals stop being such an important part of a Starship's Warp Drive.  By the time of the Galaxy Class, Dilithium Crystals are reduced to mere "Sparkplugs".  If Klingons acquired that technology from the Federation, it makes the loss of Praxis much less powerful.  Also one would figure that the smaller the warp drive the fewer "Sparkplugs" are needed to run them.

No, Klingons wouldn't as a rule kamikaze themselves into an enemy ship, but if they are desperate they will do what it takes to win.   "In battle nothing is more honorable than victory."

[Don Karnage]

what is the J-25 incident with the Borg?

wolf 359 was the reason the build the defiant, but i don't remember the J-25 incident?, is it the first time the Enterprise D encounter with the Borg because of Q?

[Lieutenant_Q]

The Defiant was on the drawing board before the Wolf 359 battle.  J-25 is the Q episode.  The Defiant was being designed because of that encounter.