Hi all,
I actually discussed this with Adrian Jones of
http://www.uss-sheffield.co.uk/ and Bernd Schneider of
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/. Here's what I said in my opening salvo to Bernd.
"Adrian says you are apparently convinced of the greater credibility of the 381m ship length generated by the Excelsior components. I have become convinced (due to my own no doubt peverse need to be awkward, I'm sure *grin*) of the opposite, that the 210m length generated by the Miranda components is the correct one.
It was your own article on this that first made be seriously consider the
Centaur type as one worthy of inclusion into my own Star Trek Universe, being the only detailed one I've encountered so far which entertains the smaller size.
I personally cannot get past the Miranda's photon pod. Either I have to make it into a completely different shape--which is impractical as it was very clearly seen on screen--or the pod has to be its original size as mounted on the Miranda class. The fact that the Miranda's bridge and "roll bar" pylons were also used cinches it for me, and the huge green-tinted "windows" on her saucer which would stretch for decks on an Excelsior-sized saucer is what helped me convince Adrian of my position. The small size does make her rather awkward for internal space, but it suits her role as observed on the show itself: a short-range escort type.
The pod itself is clearly a photon pod, and since the tubes are exactly the same size in relation to the pod itself, either it simply is an actual Miranda photon pod, or the Excelsior-scaled ship has four huge ports more suited to launching shuttles than torpedoes.
This picture shows a JHAS at fairly close range to a Galaxy-class for size comparison:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:USS_Odyssey_firing_phasers.jpgThis site has a pretty accurate model built, including the large saucer windows, which clearly implies a smaller ship even though the model builder himself favours the longer ship:
http://msfm.seryan.com/stephen_l/usscentaur.htmAnd this site is my main visual argument for a smaller
Centaur:
http://www.shiporama.org/ds9premr.htmIf you look at the sequence of pictures, second down on the left shows the JHAS flying at extremely close range past the
Centaur, and her saucer is definitely not even twice the size of the Bug ship.
Since their dimensions are roughly similar, and the bug ship is roughly as long as it is wide, it would make the saucer some 100m across, and thus the length of the Centaur would be around the 200m mark.
From the battle sequence it seems far more likely that the VFX crew were working from the assumption of a smaller ship."
Subsequent emails forwarded counter arguments and counter-counter reponses.
"Another argument for the "small ship" is her weapons. In the "Battle" pic, the
Centaur fires from the very tip of her saucer, from three of those copper bumps on the physical model. If this was a full-sized Excelsior saucer, why not fire from any of the Excelsior's standard phaser banks? My own explanation of the bumps is, rather than bring triple turrets they are a primitive phaser array, predating the "proper" ones of the Ambassador."
"Another model shows an excellent solution for the smaller ship; the "shuttlebay" on the top of the saucer in front of the bridge--only called a shuttlebay because it is the rear shuttlebay of the same Excelsior model used for the saucer--is never actually seen on the model on screen where they concentrate on the underside of the
Centaur. However, this model--the USS
Shaffer--has this copper-painted door as a blue navigational deflector instead, and I think it works very well."
<will insert a link to the
Shaffer later, when I can find it>
"However, with these ships it is strictly on a case by case basis. General rules do not apply to the kitbashes. The Trident design, for example. I am curiously drawn to this ship as displayed on your site. It is obviously Excelsior-sized, since only some re-arranged pylons are from another model and can easily be dismissed.
Had the
Centaur's nacelles been standard Excelsior ones, I would have little interest in the ship and we wouldn't be having this discussion because it would be too obviously assigned Excelsior-scaling, resulting in the same problem as with the
Shelley.
The rather horrific
Raging Queen/Shelley is something else, but I hadn't factored it in when considering my
Centaur arguments. The two cases are distinct, but most definitely related. Since the Excelsior saucer and secondary hull are very prominent, I too would have said they have to be Excelsior-scaled, but that does make the Miranda nacelles ridiculously large. By your own reasoning, the ships scaled to Constitution size have the Excelsior saucer a bare 6m shorter than a 210m
Centaur. If the figures can be blurred slightly, we could have a
Shelley of around 180m with a saucer the same size as the Centaur. The smaller Centaur actually sets a precedence for the Constitution-scaled
Shelley.
However, my own reasoning for the smaller
Centaur was directly linked to the massive alterations to standard Excelsior components: the nacelles are no longer recognisable as Excelsior nacelles, the bridge is not an Excelsior one, the "shuttlebay" addition, and the modifcations to the saucer itself all combined to erode the credibility of the only truly Excelsior-scaled component--the disk of the saucer. I belive that makes the case for a smaller
Centaur more compelling. Lots of "special circumstances."
if you care, let me know what you think of all that.
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Topic: Size of the USS Centaur (Read 2947 times)