Topic: ecm/eccm and energy

[Don Karnage]

i was wondering if the ecm/eccm is usefull or not?, i know what it is but does it work?

also the energy icon on the upper left is it usefull to send all the energy to weapons or shield, well if i do it to the shield the ship stop and i have no power to weapons, not usefull.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Its refering to Shield Reinforcement.  I would almost NEVER put that at any less than #5 on the priority.  The only time I could see Sheild Reinforcments being more useful than ECM, is when deailing with a Plasma, Droner, or ESG.

If you want to put more priority on Sheild Reinforcment, don't set your slider so high that you can't use anything else.

My Typical Priority Settings:

Movement: 5
Weapons: 4
Shields: 5
Tractors: 5
EW: 4

And then depending on the ship size I either put 1-2 or 4-5 points into ECM/ECCM.

[Rod ONeal]

My, more or less "default" EA settings are

movement 1, Everything is based off of movement 1st. Maneuver is the most important, IMHO. You should strive to keep your ship in position to do maximum damage while minimizing your enemies weapon's fire.

EW 2, If you don't have your EW environment properly balanced your weapon's efficiency will be degraded wasting a percentage of the energy you used for weapons. The idea is to do that to your opponent. This is a battle inside of the battle, and yes EW works. 

weapons 3, No point in arming weapons if you aren't in a position to deliver them effectively.

tractor 4, This could be higher (and EW could be lower) depending on what you and your opponent are flying. If you're in a plasma boat, for example, you might put a bigger emphasis on tractor than EW.

shields 5, All excess power goes here.  Need more shield reinforcement then reduce power to another system (turn off those disruptors or fusion beams, for instance) or slow down a bit.

My .02 

[Commander Maxillius]

I don't use the power priority settings.  Default settings are:

1. tractors/deep scan
2. movement
3. weapons
4. electronic warfare
5. shield reinforcement

What I do is I bring the power panel up, set the EW to ECM 2 (droner/plasma) or ECM 2 ECCM 2 (photon/dizzy/hellbore/PPD), then adjust speed to charge.  If I need more speed I move the phaser capacitor slider.  You'd be amaded at how much power you can free up just by setting that to 1/2 power.  The capacitor still charges all the way, it just takes twice as long.

[AcePylut]

NEver fire against a negative shift (where enemy ECM is greater than your ECCM).  Defensively, always try to maintain a negative shift on your enemy (where your ECM is greater than their ECCM).

If you "know" when a direct fire ship is going to unload on you and you're castling, don't be afraid to drop a WW to make all their weaps miss (as a WW is equivalent to 9 ECM).

If a PPD ship lights you up, engage erratic maneauvers as soon as the first pulse hits.  This causes the enemy to re-lock, and then the PPD is firing against a 2 shift.

Basically.... 1 ECM advantage = 1 shift on the weapons range chart.  4 ECM = 2 shift on the weapons range chart.

So, if you fire photons at range 4 against a 0 shift, the weapons will try to hit as per their to hit % at range 4.  If fire against a 1 ECM shift, your weapons will try to hit as per the "next longer range" %.


So,

[Tus-XC]

i personally use the 12343 set up

1 movement

2 weapons (with that i always drop the phaser capacitor to half)

3 tractors

4 sheilds

3 ew

[Ravok]

NEver fire against a negative shift (where enemy ECM is greater than your ECCM).  Defensively, always try to maintain a negative shift on your enemy (where your ECM is greater than their ECCM).

If you "know" when a direct fire ship is going to unload on you and you're castling, don't be afraid to drop a WW to make all their weaps miss (as a WW is equivalent to 9 ECM).

If a PPD ship lights you up, engage erratic maneauvers as soon as the first pulse hits.  This causes the enemy to re-lock, and then the PPD is firing against a 2 shift.

Basically.... 1 ECM advantage = 1 shift on the weapons range chart.  4 ECM = 2 shift on the weapons range chart.

So, if you fire photons at range 4 against a 0 shift, the weapons will try to hit as per their to hit % at range 4.  If fire against a 1 ECM shift, your weapons will try to hit as per the "next longer range" %.


So,

 "If you "know" when a direct fire ship is going to unload on you and you're castling, don't be afraid to drop a WW to make all their weaps miss (as a WW is equivalent to 9 ECM)."

 Thanks Ace I have been playing for years and didn't know that. +1 for you.

[Don Karnage]

so i put the energy at what number and to wht ever type of ship i battle agains?, my maine problem is romulan with there plasma, i battle them with a drone ca and the still get me with there plasma 

[Rod ONeal]

Plasma has a finite range. Keep your speed up and approach your opponent at an angle that allows you to turn away and run the plasma out of endurance. ECM isn't always your best option. 
Plasma takes a long time to arm. When your opponent is at a low plasma arming point, close, tractor (if possible) and unload your drones.

[Lieutenant_Q]

ECM Effectiveness against Drones and Plasma is minimal at best.  Best to put that power into speed when dealing with Droners and Plasma Boats.  ECM works well against Photons, Disrupters, Fusion Beams, (not so much against Hellbores).  It is excellent against the Mauler and the PPD.  It also comes in handy against the Phaser-2.

[Age]

What is a good power setting for FeD Line ships (CA) and light cruisers (CL)? This is mostly direct fire ships not droners especially vs plasma.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

If I had a Fred against a plasma punk, I would put 1 point into ECM, just to help damage against their phaser-1's.

I also like to start Erratic Maneuvers right at their optimum range bracket. Most heavy weapons and phasers are much more damaging and accurate at Range 15 than Range 16, so if I think they're about to fire a volley at Range 15, I start EM at range 17 while they're closing, and hopefully the other player won't notice the "Attack Shift: 2" until after they fire. It seems to work well against disruptors, ph-1, and PPD. If I were against another Fed, I would EM at range 31, because proxies are good at 13-30.

I don't know, maybe put some points into ECCM and whittle away w/ photons at a plasma user's rear shield as they run away to recharge.

[Dash Jones]

NEver fire against a negative shift (where enemy ECM is greater than your ECCM).  Defensively, always try to maintain a negative shift on your enemy (where your ECM is greater than their ECCM).

If you "know" when a direct fire ship is going to unload on you and you're castling, don't be afraid to drop a WW to make all their weaps miss (as a WW is equivalent to 9 ECM).

If a PPD ship lights you up, engage erratic maneauvers as soon as the first pulse hits.  This causes the enemy to re-lock, and then the PPD is firing against a 2 shift.

Basically.... 1 ECM advantage = 1 shift on the weapons range chart.  4 ECM = 2 shift on the weapons range chart.

So, if you fire photons at range 4 against a 0 shift, the weapons will try to hit as per their to hit % at range 4.  If fire against a 1 ECM shift, your weapons will try to hit as per the "next longer range" %.


So,

 "If you "know" when a direct fire ship is going to unload on you and you're castling, don't be afraid to drop a WW to make all their weaps miss (as a WW is equivalent to 9 ECM)."

 Thanks Ace I have been playing for years and didn't know that. +1 for you.

yeah, but wouldn't that just be two phaser blasts to blow up the WW and then unload the rest on you while you're slow maneuvering and we're fast?

[Panzergranate]

I always run with ECM =1 and ECCM =6 as I like my indirect fire weapons to hit, if possible. It works for me, especially against +2 ECM bonused ships.

[3dot14]

If you "know" when a direct fire ship is going to unload on you and you're castling, don't be afraid to drop a WW to make all their weaps miss (as a WW is equivalent to 9 ECM).

I thought WW is 6 points of ECM?

I believe the formula to calculate defensive shift is

FLOOR ( SQRT ( Max( [your ECM + if you EM + if you have WW] - [enemy ECCM] , 0 ) ) )

In practice shift +1 is quite easy to archieve and should be your goal at all times.
Shift +2 is harder (i.e. more energy demanding) and should be attempted when you either have loads of energy to spare (castling) or is about to receive a volley.
Shift +3 is very difficult (IMHO) to get in normal games. You will need a combination of ECM, EM (Erratic maneauvers) and WW (tho not both). An exception being in a nebula where there is 9 points of ECM for everyone.
Shift +4 is, I think, theoretically possible. You can get 9 nebula ECM, 6 ECM, and 4 ECM from EM => a shift of 4 max in game. (you can't EM and WW at same time, so shift 5 is not possible, not to mention you can't WW in nebula)

Personally I think it's definitely worthwhile to spend the energy on a shift +1. And shift +2 as occassion demands.

[Rod ONeal]

If you "know" when a direct fire ship is going to unload on you and you're castling, don't be afraid to drop a WW to make all their weaps miss (as a WW is equivalent to 9 ECM).

I thought WW is 6 points of ECM?




I believe the formula to calculate defensive shift is

FLOOR ( SQRT ( Max( [your ECM + if you EM + if you have WW] - [enemy ECCM] , 0 ) ) )

In practice shift +1 is quite easy to archieve and should be your goal at all times.
Shift +2 is harder (i.e. more energy demanding) and should be attempted when you either have loads of energy to spare (castling) or is about to receive a volley.
Shift +3 is very difficult (IMHO) to get in normal games. You will need a combination of ECM, EM (Erratic maneauvers) and WW (tho not both). An exception being in a nebula where there is 9 points of ECM for everyone.
Shift +4 is, I think, theoretically possible. You can get 9 nebula ECM, 6 ECM, and 4 ECM from EM => a shift of 4 max in game. (you can't EM and WW at same time, so shift 5 is not possible, not to mention you can't WW in nebula)

Personally I think it's definitely worthwhile to spend the energy on a shift +1. And shift +2 as occassion demands.

Your correct in all of your calculations.

The only minor point I'd make is against photons go for as big a shift as possible. +2 is worth trying to achieve.

Against seeking weapons, keep the weasels warmed up and ready. ECM is pretty worthless you're better of using the power for speed.

[Panzergranate]

I agree with not bothering with ECM and prefere to enhance targetting with EECM.

ER, the WW yells, "Yoooo Hoooo, Drones!! I'm the target ship, hit me!!"

It has no effect on other weapons systems as it is a Drone bait decoy target solely.

Speed is the best defence though some ships do have a problem of using weapons and maintaining speed. F-BC, F-BCF and F-BCJ spring to mind here!!

My son spend so much attentiion fiddling with power settings, ECM and ECCM, during a battle that he frequently is caught out not paying attention to actual battle.

Some of our LAN opponents are quite good at spotting the tell tale signs of "compulsive settings fiddler at work" and move in for the kill.

The number of decnet shot opportunities he's missed is a long list.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Not true, while under the effects of a WW, the ship has an ECM of 2.  So it does provide limited defense against Direct Fire weapons.

The real key with ECM/ECCM is that the AI seems to forget about it, most of the time.  So while it's easy to practice it, its not a set and forget thing in PvP.  You have to be keeping an eye on not only your attack shift, but also the panel itself, since you cannot have a negative shift, your just wasting energy if you have 6 points into ECCM and your opponent has 0 in ECM.

[Panzergranate]

It just saves me the hastle of taking my eye off the action to change the settings for a particular target's estimated or known ECM setting.

Certain players, in our LAN games, are notorious for whacking up the ECM, so this counteracts their efforts.

It's a shame that the ability to scan a target's power utilisation curve, as in SFB, isn't carried into SFC, as skilled players would be able to guestimate what settings a player is running with.
 
If someone drops a WW in LAN game and are sticking at speed 4 I just buzz them and dump either a few transporter bombs or dump a "Nuke" mine with the M key right in their path!!

Note that if your particular ship isn't equiped with nuclear mines a transporter bomb will be dropped instead on hitting the M key.

Unfortunately, ECM is a double edged sword, if used inappropriately.

[Lieutenant_Q]

That would certainly encourage me to stay at speed 4, since that is below the threshold for triggering the mines.  So I can't use my drones, no big loss there, and the drones I don't use there will be waiting for you in the form of a scatterpack when you least expect it.

Now, usually I do not use the WW for a free ECM shift, because it's voided as soon as weapons are fired, if I wanted the ECM shift, EM or simply putting the points into ECM is more effective.

[Panzergranate]

However low speed = low maneuverbility = direct fire weapons compromised.

A good port to starboard (or starboard to port) buz with a good balst of disrupters, phasers and maybe a boarding party, plus a well timed Drone, as I move away at speed 31, to trick your PD to take a pot shot, so that I can dump out a CP (or two).

One of my favourite moves!!

The victim is too slow to avoid, they've voided their WW and their PD has fired (thus voiding the WW) and now a CP (or two) is dropped on their doorstep!!

One of those, "Oh sh*t!!" moments in a game!!

[Lieutenant_Q]

Two problems with that, first off what the heck is a CP?

second, if the WW is active, the PD won't fire anyways.

[Panzergranate]

CP = Cluster Pack!!

I try to spot opponents about to drop one and time a WW to drop just after I've loosed of a few shots at them or whatever I was shooting at before they dumped the CP.

Timing WW is kind of cruical and nothing is more annoying as when the PD fires just after launch!!

[Age]

I read in the manual the 3 eccm is good vs plasma torps is this true or not I think not.What do you all have to say about it.

[Panzergranate]

Plasma Torpedoes always seem to find a way of hitting anyhow, unless the traget can maintain speed and distance until it disapates.

Its thise sneaky side firing S types that are the biggest worry.

Normally the ships with forward firing only Plasmas give some indication that they're about to make a run. Most early Romulan ships can be outrun with a moped, so being caught ot by a Plasma shot from one of these is sheer carelessness.

If I play Gorn against Romulan I always have the ECCM cranked up as my typical opponents will be running high ECM is a desperate hope that it'll save them.

The same goes for Klingon D5P and D6P Plasma cruisers. Generally capitalising on the shock of a Klingon ship actually firing Plasmas is essential so having the odds of a hit looking good is a must, because guess what all the enemy players will want to shoot at from then on??

Basically, if the target is Romulan then run some ECCM as most oftheir ships have a +2 ECM built in.

Also, in games with added in non-stock ships or SFB hull sub-classes and conversions, any scout cruiser will run a very high + ECM bonus rating, with normal scouts running +2 ECM built in. It's part of their defence profile, as they usually lack firepower.

Scouts are hard to hit with indirect fire weapons, compared to standard ships.

[Nemesis]

ER, the WW yells, "Yoooo Hoooo, Drones!! I'm the target ship, hit me!!"

It has no effect on other weapons systems as it is a Drone bait decoy target solely.

According to the readme.txt file wild weasels generate 6 ECM.

[Nemesis]

Plasma Torpedoes always seem to find a way of hitting anyhow, unless the traget can maintain speed and distance until it disapates.

Plasma Torpedoes have 3 points of built in ECCM so you need to have 4 points of ECM to have a chance against them.

Basically, if the target is Romulan then run some ECCM as most oftheir ships have a +2 ECM built in.

Since when?  Orions have built in ECM not Romulans.

[Age]

Orignally Posted by PanzergranateThe same goes for Klingon D5P and D6P Plasma cruisers. Generally capitalising on the shock of a Klingon ship actually firing Plasmas is essential so having the odds of a hit looking good is a must, because guess what all the enemy players will want to

When did Klingons use plasma or are you referring to the Romulan hulls that they use?

[Panzergranate]

SFB Volume.III. 1988.

The Romulans, as their part of the bargain, gave the Klingons Pasma F launchers. These were used to convert a number of D5 and D6 hulls. However, once the intitial shock of a Klingon warship firing Plasmas wore off, the ships became the focus of attention in battles.

The Klingons were not impressed with Plasma Torpedoes, so converted the three Romulan RKLs they aquired over to conventional Klingon weaponry.

Conversion, as described in SFB:

D5P.... replace Disrupters with one Plasma F per engine.

D6P.... replace Disrupters with two Plasma F per engine.
 
All weapons FA only.

Basically, in an SFC game, unless your opponent scans you, then moving in for a close in Plasma rake is quite possible. On the downside is the long wait to rearm, especially if having to maintain a high speed to keep out of trouble.

As dreadnaught and battleship "assasins" they are effective, causing enough damage to take the wind out of the dreadnaught or battleship's sails for the pack to finish off.

My son likes the D6P, I find it a liability in LAN fleet actions as everyone else has to hold off the enemy whilst he makes distance and rearms for another run.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

I actually wish there were some plasma/disruptor ships is SFC. I guess there are the pirate cartels, but the P/D combo is something they don't really have. It would open up some new tactics. Or maybe plasma/hellbores. If only Orion Pirates had option mounts 

By the way, does the Stealth +2 ECM actually do anything in the game? I know it's programmed in the shiplist, but against the orions, I never seem to get an Attack Shift, even with no ECCM.

[Rod ONeal]

SFB Volume.III. 1988.

The Romulans, as their part of the bargain, gave the Klingons Pasma F launchers. These were used to convert a number of D5 and D6 hulls. However, once the intitial shock of a Klingon warship firing Plasmas wore off, the ships became the focus of attention in battles.

The Klingons were not impressed with Plasma Torpedoes, so converted the three Romulan RKLs they aquired over to conventional Klingon weaponry.

Conversion, as described in SFB:

D5P.... replace Disrupters with one Plasma F per engine.

D6P.... replace Disrupters with two Plasma F per engine.
 
All weapons FA only.

Basically, in an SFC game, unless your opponent scans you, then moving in for a close in Plasma rake is quite possible. On the downside is the long wait to rearm, especially if having to maintain a high speed to keep out of trouble.

As dreadnaught and battleship "assasins" they are effective, causing enough damage to take the wind out of the dreadnaught or battleship's sails for the pack to finish off.

My son likes the D6P, I find it a liability in LAN fleet actions as everyone else has to hold off the enemy whilst he makes distance and rearms for another run.

The D5P and D6P are PF tenders. They're from module K. No plasma launchers on either of them.

The plasma launchers were removed from the RKLs because maintenance would have been problematic for them. 

What bargain are you speaking of that the Roms gave plasma launchers to the Klinks? I'm not familiar with that story.

[Panzergranate]

You're correct in that the D5P and D6P are Fast Patrol Ship (Pseudo Fighter)  PF tenders.

I read up in SFB Volume.III. which lists the ships as D5F and D6F, which is also the rules volume where the K-RKL is introduced, along with the K-MON, AD5, AD6, D5V, D6V and D7V. Actually 50% of the D5, D6 and D7 variants appeared in this volume back in 1988, plus the "K" refit.

However, they are an allowed construction or conversion in SFB camapigns and F&E games.

I, myself, find both a bit of a liability in games, mainly for the amount of incoming fore they attract once an enemy knows what they are and what they can do.

If I wanted to sulk around and wait ages for Plasmas to charge up, I'd play as Romulans.

However, there are odd occasions where an initial heavy blow is welcome.

I'd suggest that anyone curioius about the conversion simply make a duplicate of a D5 or D6, label it D5F or D6F, replace the Disrupters with either twin or quad PlaF launchers FA and try them out for themselves.

It might seem like good idea against AI opponnents but against human players, not so great.