Topic: Heavy Iron and the Cartel Layer

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Messing around with ideas for a simultaneous imperial/cartel server, it suddenly dawned on me that the cartel layer offers us an excellent chance to do something new and different to balance heavy iron/specialty with line ships.

Put the Heavey Iron and the specialty support ships on the cartel map.  From here, they can move into an important hex and engage other players.  If they win, the can destroy or drive out others for the duration of the disengagement rule.  However, they will have no effect upon hex DV.  Capturing and controlling territory will be the job of the line ships, which will be on the imperial layer.

"This doesn't reflect the ability of a DN to sit in a hex and control it!!!"

Doesn't it?  Space is big.  Really big.  The abiilty of a DN to sit in a hex and "control" it is reflected by the disengagement rule.  However, a DN can only be in one spot at a time.  Actually controlling the economy, trade, and rebellions in a hex (you know, the grunt work) takes a lot of smaller ships in a lot of places all at once.

-S'Cipio the Herr Burt  (pondering future servers....)

[NuclearWessels]

Wow!  That's a REALLY interesting idea ...

So you'd be taking empire territory with line ships, and taking the underlying cartel space with other vessels to create sort of a staging area for the heavy metal to work in.

Hmmm ... it'd be interesting to do some testing of what happens when you get cross-layer drafting going on

Cool idea!
dave

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Having a "no heavy metal server" with just the empire level would accomplish the same thing. Who wants to fly heavy metal on a different layer that can't affect the amin action? Maybe a few, but why split the limited player base up?  My 2 cents anyways.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Having a "no heavy metal server" with just the empire level would accomplish the same thing. Who wants to fly heavy metal on a different layer that can't affect the amin action? Maybe a few, but why split the limited player base up?  My 2 cents anyways.

You can fly both the heavy metal and the line ships.  You'd need two accounts.  My hope is to get both heavy metal and line ships in the same game, and give them both something important to do.  Pure heavy metal won't get the job done, and neither would pure line ships.  Your side would have to use both to win.  (I hope.)

-S'Cipio

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

I don't see splitting the player base up between 2 layers as being a good thing with our small player base, despite the different goals of the layers.

[KBF-Crim]

I think it's at least worth a try and see how a server works out...

Been long enough..I'm getting the bug to play again..

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I don't see splitting the player base up between 2 layers as being a good thing with our small player base, despite the different goals of the layers.

Why would they split?  Why would you not play on both layers?

-S'Cipio

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

I don't see splitting the player base up between 2 layers as being a good thing with our small player base, despite the different goals of the layers.

Why would they split?  Why would you not play on both layers?

-S'Cipio

Time, effort and preferences strike me as why.  PvP vs. hex flipping.  You are basically making a layer for PvP players and one for hex flipping. Try finding PvPers for more than a few hours a night. Just my initial thoughts anyway.

[NuclearWessels]

Just a heads-up S'cip -- this'll probably still work with the new pirate patrol scenarios.

The kind of missions you get offered run on a sort of sliding scale.  Anything that's really heavy iron is going to get hit with combat-style missions for the most part, so even if you put naval heavy iron in a pirate cartel it'll still draw more-or-less naval style missions.

I think

dave

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Messing around with ideas for a simultaneous imperial/cartel server, it suddenly dawned on me that the cartel layer offers us an excellent chance to do something new and different to balance heavy iron/specialty with line ships.

Put the Heavey Iron and the specialty support ships on the cartel map.  From here, they can move into an important hex and engage other players.  If they win, the can destroy or drive out others for the duration of the disengagement rule.  However, they will have no effect upon hex DV.  Capturing and controlling territory will be the job of the line ships, which will be on the imperial layer.

"This doesn't reflect the ability of a DN to sit in a hex and control it!!!"

Doesn't it?  Space is big.  Really big.  The abiilty of a DN to sit in a hex and "control" it is reflected by the disengagement rule.  However, a DN can only be in one spot at a time.  Actually controlling the economy, trade, and rebellions in a hex (you know, the grunt work) takes a lot of smaller ships in a lot of places all at once.

-S'Cipio the Herr Burt  (pondering future servers....)

I like the idea Scippy, this will give a new meaning to the line ship.

Just had a side thought on this.  Perhaps something else that could be done is to create a wider initial homespace, and a few paths leading directly to enemy space on the cartel layer that run right up to the enemy border across any intervening neutral hexes on the starting map .  This would be due to the fact that while pirates and minor races might try to take on a lesser ship, they would let the mighty DNs pass by without challenge. 

This would also allow for some roaming by the DNs so they don't get left behind the quickly expanding line ship/ hex flipping front.  Also this would allow the heavy iron to potentially challenge enemy hex flippers that were pushing a line towards your home space, that wasn't yet met by your own line on the imperial level.

Made up a quick graphic to illustrate:



I love the idea as it has some real interesting strategic implications.

I don't think it will split the player base up as much as Tobin fears either.  Usually Heavy iron pilots like to fly with smaller drafters anyhow.  The inability of the heavy iron to effect the Imperial level wont be a factor when so drafted, these ships wouldn't usually be unescorted anyhow, so it makes for a certain degree of realism.