Topic: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Readme's should really be follow exactly from the original creator.. no reason to try to "define" it since it is exactly that and no way around it. As for not wanting to listen to it, that will only make problems worse in the future, which I myself have personally experienced (and I am sure all of us have). It would be best to resolve it now so it doesn’t create a division "crack" that slowly grows to a gaping hole to the point where confrontations are not able to be resolved so easily.. Dont fight about it and just sit down and try to fix the issues as best you can.. for both your benefit, and the benefit for everyone here at D.net and the community

[ModelsPlease]

An easy way around any problem like this happening again is simple, do what I do.... When I convert a model I simply rename the read me that is comes with as Original (whatever game) ReadMe.... takes 2 seconds and seems to keep everyone happy then I write my own read me for the conversion 

[Sandman3D]

Sheesh, why can't we just get along?

[Adonis]

Making you feel like he is calling you stupid and actually calling you stupid is two different things. The collusion of facts diametrically increases based on the level of emotion. Refer to my sig for instructions.

And Starforce, butt comments and indications he is whining doesnt help either. You can certainly clarify the issue and indicate you feel he is being combative without leveling insults. This simply amplifies the egowar.

Stop trying to iceskate uphill guys. Both of you are vital to the community, and none of us like to see you fighting this way. Discuss and resolve, dont insult and devolve. You will find you live longer.

I think we need a special thread or something to put these kind of posts to. Very well put Raven +1 Karma

An easy way around any problem like this happening again is simple, do what I do.... When I convert a model I simply rename the read me that is comes with as Original (whatever game) ReadMe.... takes 2 seconds and seems to keep everyone happy then I write my own read me for the conversion 

Pretty much summs up the solution for this.
...and an ingenious way of things it is

[F9th0mega]

An easy way around any problem like this happening again is simple, do what I do.... When I convert a model I simply rename the read me that is comes with as Original (whatever game) ReadMe.... takes 2 seconds and seems to keep everyone happy then I write my own read me for the conversion 

Which is why im so lost as to why he wont put it in :rolleyes: but hes done listeneing to it :rolleyes: (Very childish remark Starforce.)

[Starforce2]

I wont put it in for a number of reasons:

1) I don't want to, and shouldn't need to. There's nothing wrong with the current readme's. Just because YOU didn't write it doesn't make the information in it any more or less correct or important.

2) I have all of the nessecary credit and ship history information posted in the new readme. Whats the difference? 5kb of text is 5kb of text regardless of what file it is in. If you want to talk about childish remarks, refer to the ones you have been making, all over a text file, on 4 different forums. It's just a damn ship for god sake. A ship, BTW, where the vast majority of the work involved belongs to P81 and GAFY, whithout which (or another set of authors of similar quality of which there are not many who have done all of the nessecary parts) "your" 2 ships would exsist in the first place.

3) You've spewed this over 4 forums. Had you not done so I may have been more open to your requests. Now I am not.

Again, you want to say I am being childish? Arguing over who's text file is more important on a fictional starship? Give it up dude. This fight has gotten so pathetic I don't care who "wins" the arugement. Any newbies looking at this right now probably think we are all loosers who need to get laid.

[wulf111]

It's just a damn ship for god sake.

This is the kind of statement that makes me mad. The thing is it isnt just a ship its a part of the modeler, being a completely original or kitbash, it is their creativity that put those parts together with that texture to create something new and make it all work together.


Omegas request that you add the original readme is not unreasonable and i do see your point that the credits and stuff are in the new readme but it is his policy that the original readme stay with the file intact and it is his right as the modeler to do so.
Omega asked you to just re-upload the ships with the proper readmes he could of just as easily told you to pull them down and not let you use them at all wich is also his right to do so if he wishes.

[OlBuzzard]

It's just a damn ship for god sake.

This is the kind of statement that makes me mad. The thing is it isnt just a ship its a part of the modeler, being a completely original or kitbash, it is their creativity that put those parts together with that texture to create something new and make it all work together.

+1

[intermech]

Hey, Ol-B! The bassmaster himself! Great to see you post! Man this is like a family reunion!!!

Maybe Cleeve, LB, and Maggot will pop their heads in!!!

[Major A Payne]

Oh, now come on starforce. Although this sort of thing shouldn't have been put on the forum, I do believe your attitude is somewhat very poor (not exactly the words I would actually use, but still). I mean why not just follow a simple request to keep that person happy?? Seeing as you would have read the original readme in the first place to copy/paste the information to your readme.

The way it reads your both acting as bad as each other.

[ModelsPlease]

I spoke with LB last week.  Nice to see ya Buzz

[Starforce2]

Oh, now come on starforce. Although this sort of thing shouldn't have been put on the forum, I do believe your attitude is somewhat very poor (not exactly the words I would actually use, but still). I mean why not just follow a simple request to keep that person happy?? Seeing as you would have read the original readme in the first place to copy/paste the information to your readme.

The way it reads your both acting as bad as each other.

Because I interprate keeping the credits as the same act. The credits are what is important. See next post.

[Starforce2]

It's just a damn ship for god sake.

This is the kind of statement that makes me mad. The thing is it isnt just a ship its a part of the modeler, being a completely original or kitbash, it is their creativity that put those parts together with that texture to create something new and make it all work together.

Cerativity and originality come from things not done before, not by taking parts of well known ships and reassembling them in ways that anyone can think of in 5 minutes much in the way a class of children would assemble a mr potato head. While the end results may look cool and may be worth showing off, but to go all spirtual and say it's part of you is absurd.

On the other hand, going back to mr potato head, if one were to make each plastic peice and paint it before assembling it, then you've done something thet you could say is part of you. The Venturas and Minotaur were not made from polygon 1 and thus I don't believe your arguement has merit with these specific 2 ships in mind. I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of kitbashers here, I like the bashes as much sa the next guy but that's taking thigns far to seriously, which in essese is the whole problem. This is supposed to be a game.

Omegas request that you add the original readme is not unreasonable and i do see your point that the credits and stuff are in the new readme but it is his policy that the original readme stay with the file intact and it is his right as the modeler to do so.
Omega asked you to just re-upload the ships with the proper readmes he could of just as easily told you to pull them down and not let you use them at all wich is also his right to do so if he wishes.

It's not what he asked that's unreasonable. It's how he asked. He could have contacted me directly, asked me why I didn't ask or notify him of the port and to fix the readme, but instead of facing me one on one he chose this.

[Tus-XC]

Cerativity and originality come from things not done before, not by taking parts of well known ships and reassembling them in ways that anyone can think of in 5 minutes much in the way a class of children would assemble a mr potato head. While the end results may look cool and may be worth showing off, but to go all spirtual and say it's part of you is absurd.

The day you actually do that outside of porting peoples work is the day i'll actually put some weight to your statement.  What you are saying is complete and utter bull hockey.  The fact of the matter is simple, someone made something that they inspired to.  They put something of their selves into the project, no matter how the project went about being done.  This is better compared to real world kitbashing, taking model kits and building something out of those part to achieve the final result that you want.  To tell someone they didn't put any effort into something, or that they didn't put something of themselves into said model because their skill level is not at a point where they can scratch build is rather insulting to every modeler here, and a statement that you yourself are in no position to make. 

This is supposed to be a game.

And those models are still peoples work, a fact that you seem to have forgotten.  It doesn't matter one bit whether its for a game or not.  Or whether you believe it merits it or not.  You don't get to make that decision.

It's not what he asked that's unreasonable. It's how he asked. He could have contacted me directly, asked me why I didn't ask or notify him of the port and to fix the readme, but instead of facing me one on one he chose this.

And you claim to be the bigger man, trying to take the high ground using the statement that he didn't come to me.  If you really wanted the high ground you would have done as he requested when he requested it here even if this was an improper place to do so.  I did so when there was that whole problem with the background info for my Majestic.  I removed the info, even though it should have been taken to me first.  if you had we wouldn't be on 2 pages of this discussion now would we.  The real problem here is not that he posted this on the forum, its that you won't fix what is to me an apparently easy fix.  A person can only be judged by their actions and inactions.  When i know that you have done similar things in the past, and have even gone against modelers wishes in the past just for spite does that give me much hope that such a settlement can be reached with you via e-mail?   Its a culmination of all those little things that happened in the past that has lead us to this point.  What will determine the outcome of this is your character, and whether you are mature enough to accept some of the blame for what has happened and fix it.

[OlBuzzard]

I spoke with LB last week.  Nice to see ya Buzz

 hi ya bud ...  u-2   IM!


 

(care for some?)

[ModelsPlease]

The Majestic info was my bad I got it from one source and it turned out to belong to another. Sorry about that. But I did speak to that person and infact wound up bashing him a ship so all is good. But that's old news.

Bottom line guys, fix the issue and let's move on with the modelling.

[F9th0mega]

It's just a damn ship for god sake.

This is the kind of statement that makes me mad. The thing is it isnt just a ship its a part of the modeler, being a completely original or kitbash, it is their creativity that put those parts together with that texture to create something new and make it all work together.

Cerativity and originality come from things not done before, not by taking parts of well known ships and reassembling them in ways that anyone can think of in 5 minutes much in the way a class of children would assemble a mr potato head. While the end results may look cool and may be worth showing off, but to go all spirtual and say it's part of you is absurd.

On the other hand, going back to mr potato head, if one were to make each plastic peice and paint it before assembling it, then you've done something thet you could say is part of you. The Venturas and Minotaur were not made from polygon 1 and thus I don't believe your arguement has merit with these specific 2 ships in mind. I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of kitbashers here, I like the bashes as much sa the next guy but that's taking thigns far to seriously, which in essese is the whole problem. This is supposed to be a game.

Omegas request that you add the original readme is not unreasonable and i do see your point that the credits and stuff are in the new readme but it is his policy that the original readme stay with the file intact and it is his right as the modeler to do so.
Omega asked you to just re-upload the ships with the proper readmes he could of just as easily told you to pull them down and not let you use them at all wich is also his right to do so if he wishes.

It's not what he asked that's unreasonable. It's how he asked. He could have contacted me directly, asked me why I didn't ask or notify him of the port and to fix the readme, but instead of facing me one on one he chose this.

Thats the thing, i didnt know WHERE to ask you so i started by posting on BCC... which in turn was deleted :S And after you ignored my requests and told me the same thing you went on to repeat multiple times, i posted here.

If people would like to see the posts, i have an htm saved (was expecting the deleteing of posts and possible banning... (someone banned me at BCC... no one knows who though... :roll: and it wasnt proper... just my IP...)

[intermech]

If people would like to see the posts, i have an htm saved

No thanks.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

OK.. models are the authors work.. so as long as it isnt something unreasonable(like requesting that they go skydiving first before they have permission to release it), then its not left up to interpretation. Credits are NOT the only thing important in a readme..
Now, before this issue tears people apart on both sides, how about just fixing the issues, and moving on.. NOW. It doesnt really matter how the author asked for it to be rectified(again unless its something extremly threatening).. if you dont like the way it was addressed justr let them know that, but still fix the issues. its not a way to justify resistance towards fixing the issues at hand.

[Raven Night]

I would like to make one small point.

I spent quite alot of time working up the background of the ships that I create. Many of you are probably familiar with the ones I speak of. This usually fixes the problems that crop up, like "why do the Romulans have a huge ship like this?" type of thing.

Now, Outlance usually converts my model first, then Starforce picks it up. It is converted for both games, and the converters usually add thier information into the readme, remove or correct some items sometimes, and upload the file. Often, people credit those that convert the model with it's creation instead of Nightsoft. When I see a change that I would not prefer (I dont care about the ego feed, my ego is so big it hasnt needed a boost for years now) I simply ask if it can be changed to my likeing, and usually it is. Starforce in particular has been very vigilant about following my wishes.

Some of you may find this hard to believe, but it is how it is. It is how I approach Outlance or Starforce Productions that makes all the difference. I'm sure Starforce will admit himself that sometimes his reaction is on the kneejerk side, especially when faced with critisism. We see that all the time all over the net....alot of people do not take well to critism of thier work, at any stage.

Omega mentioned at first that he didnt mind the conversion, but would like to have been told. So he was already irritated. Apparantly Outlance had an agreement with Starforce that he was not aware of. So this truly was a misunderstanding in the beginning. Now, Starforce reacted badly to that, then Omega did not like the reaction, and then he found out that his readme had been altered, and it just ran on from there.

Egos have fed this argument, obviously. This is often the crux of this sort of problem. Everyone enjoys thier time in the spotlight, be it for an original work, a kitbash, a mission or script, or a conversion/hardpoint job, all vital parts of the process and equally worthy of recognition. In the case here, I think someone has to make the move to appease the situation. Stubborness will only exacerbate it further.

I woudl like to ask that you do as Omega wishes, Starforce, for the sake of civility in the community. Then perhaps you guys can say your apologies and we can move on from this.