Topic: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )

[ChiefBrex]

Frankly, I can't blame Omega one bit for his outburst, nor his choice to take this matter publicly.

Everyone that has asked for this to be taken privately really ought to be ashamed of themselves. People like Starforce have been allowed to abuse the system which we all work under, because Forums like BCU and BCC force the issues into private, where the matter usually ends up getting resolved with the victim, and yes I meant calling Omega a victim, getting banned or punished in some way. It's time for this BS to stop.

Starforce is the most unapproachable person in this modding community. He takes liberties with other mods (I refer to the incident involving LC's Wolf 359 pack), and then defends his actions. Kinda reminds me of George W. Bush.

Omega - My advice to you is to get your stuff taken down and have it posted elsewhere, or have someone else fulfill your request, because Starforce is Starforce, and he's not gonna do what he doesn't want to. Which makes him arrogant, rude, and unfit for any kind of moderating/admin position on any forum.

If this post gets me in trouble here at Dyna, so be it. But the facts need to be publicized.

[ModelsPlease]

Well spoken Raven 

[Centurus]

Cerativity and originality come from things not done before, not by taking parts of well known ships and reassembling them in ways that anyone can think of in 5 minutes much in the way a class of children would assemble a mr potato head. While the end results may look cool and may be worth showing off, but to go all spirtual and say it's part of you is absurd.

The day you actually do that outside of porting peoples work is the day i'll actually put some weight to your statement.  What you are saying is complete and utter bull hockey.  The fact of the matter is simple, someone made something that they inspired to.  They put something of their selves into the project, no matter how the project went about being done.  This is better compared to real world kitbashing, taking model kits and building something out of those part to achieve the final result that you want.  To tell someone they didn't put any effort into something, or that they didn't put something of themselves into said model because their skill level is not at a point where they can scratch build is rather insulting to every modeler here, and a statement that you yourself are in no position to make. 

This is supposed to be a game.

And those models are still peoples work, a fact that you seem to have forgotten.  It doesn't matter one bit whether its for a game or not.  Or whether you believe it merits it or not.  You don't get to make that decision.

It's not what he asked that's unreasonable. It's how he asked. He could have contacted me directly, asked me why I didn't ask or notify him of the port and to fix the readme, but instead of facing me one on one he chose this.

And you claim to be the bigger man, trying to take the high ground using the statement that he didn't come to me.  If you really wanted the high ground you would have done as he requested when he requested it here even if this was an improper place to do so.  I did so when there was that whole problem with the background info for my Majestic.  I removed the info, even though it should have been taken to me first.  if you had we wouldn't be on 2 pages of this discussion now would we.  The real problem here is not that he posted this on the forum, its that you won't fix what is to me an apparently easy fix.  A person can only be judged by their actions and inactions.  When i know that you have done similar things in the past, and have even gone against modelers wishes in the past just for spite does that give me much hope that such a settlement can be reached with you via e-mail?   Its a culmination of all those little things that happened in the past that has lead us to this point.  What will determine the outcome of this is your character, and whether you are mature enough to accept some of the blame for what has happened and fix it.

+1

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[intermech]

WOW, The TUS-MISTER is here!!! . . . This guy is like a ghost even in his personal forum! Great to see you!

This reminds me of that scene in Fellowship of the Ring where the little hobbits are hiding under the tree roots when the wraith is looking for Frodo. Just about the time Frodo's eyes start rolling back into his head, all manner of worms and bugs start popping out all over the place.

Still missing Atolm and Pneumatic85, but I am sure they will be by in a bit.

[DuctTapeWonder]

For crying out loud! It's no wonder I don't stop by here any more. Every time I do it's like a damn sewing circle with crap like this at the top of the gossip list. With no less than 45 posts at this point. Pissing and moaning, pissing and moaning. If people got 45 posts about the work they post here, maybe egos would be fed enough to not be butt-hurt about who said what to who about this, that, the other and what they did or did'nt do with what that was his, mine or whos.

BTW...I'm not directing these comments to either side of this arguement, but rather to everyone here who fans the flames.

[intermech]

DuctTapeWonder !!! There is another one we've missed. How have you been Ducky??? Got any new work to show off?

[darkthunder]

Starforce, by your own admission the work Omega did had nothing to do with "creativity" since it was kitbashes of parts already exisiting made by other modellers and "slapped together" the way Omega saw fit. However... 95% of "your work" would fall under this category as well, since most of your work is kitbashes taken from parts that others have modelled. And then you have labeled each ship with your own "SFP" name despite it technically not being "your work". I refer for example to the LC Wolf 359 pack, where you had made your own hardpoints for each ship, uploaded it to BCFiles and then labeled it as "SFP Wolf 359 Pack". I find that very rude to label someone elses work, as your own merely because you did the hardpoints for the ships (which basically are adjusted hardpoints from another ship, to fit the ship in question).

As for Chief Brex's statement, I totally agree on this point. Problems like these should be discussed in the open, anyone not interested in reading it doesn't even have to click on the thread link. No harm, no fowl. Starforce solution when me and him had a disagreement over MSN, was to ban me for good...

so then comes the question: If were not suppose to discuss matters like these in a public thread such as this one, and the party in question either bans you from the forum in question, urges other admins to ban you, or in my case blocks me from seeing his online status on MSN.... If after all this, where exactly do we discuss matters like these? Hell, we can't even discuss matters like these in "Private" Messages since they aren't even private. Even if a message is directed to one admin/moderator, all admins/moderators have access to reading the message in question. Not very private if I say so myself.

The solution of renaming the filename for the original readme, and include a personalized readme for the mod sounds like a sensible solution to me. However Starforce, with his ego issues see's this as a big hassle and has firmly said NO to resolving the matter in this method. It's no wonder why the community gets split up from being 1 forum, to 4 forums and beyond... This is not the first time the community has been on the verge of diversion, and i'm sure it won't be the last either.

[Starforce2]

You don't get it do you DT? I've said this again, and again, and again. The SFP I put in the filename is to make for easy searching, and in some cases, such as ships with common names, classnames, canon ect to prevent file name conflicts with stuff other people have released that would result in someones game being screwed up. It also differentiates between my version and a version of the same ship done by other people (how many people ahve done the p81 nebula hardpoint? do you want a dialup user to load each page and the pix that go with just to see who or can they Identify mine by the SFP from the index). It has nothing to do with attempting to claim ownership over the model. I have see this done by other teams and modders in the past, here at sfc, and in BC. In some cases the models were authored by the person or team the tag stands for, in others they were not. I've seen DAP tags on ships ported from SFC they didn't make within their own team for instance. Doesn't mean they stole it. I can't help you continue to be too thickheaded to understand the logic in this, nor can I do anything about the fact that you obviously ignore the readme in the mods you mentioned that clearly list who owns what. As for creativity? Well, hardpoints for BC do require atleast some, though I admit my excelior HP's are a master HP with changes listed on a chart I made for bashes that fall into cruiser, destroyer, dreadnoguth, ect sizes and stat changes based on timeline (original excelcior or refit or DS9 upgraded lakota) and I just punch in the values and stamp them about in about 15 minutes each. When ya do 60 of them, you're right, doesn't take much thought any more.

Also, unless you were screwing off at BCfiles, I didn't have you banned from anywhere. I've got no ban authority on any forum outside my own. As I recall you have been banned several times from BCU for a number of offenses which have not even involved me, including warez, and have whittnessed you get away with sending abusive pm's to capt russ and nothing happened when it got reported, not even a warning, all resulting froma  fued over the fact that you don't think he should release a nebula class with 20 different naming options. (hey, you think it should be public, there it is) I also don't believe I've banned you from BCfiles ever, so your claim here is completely false.

As for the community being split between forums BCU and BCC, that had nothing to do with me. That was to do with the technical faults of BCU and several people being unhappy with Ravens rule structure along with a multitude of minor issues I am sure Mark/Ignis can clear up for you. In case you hadn't noticed, this community (SFC) has been here alot longer than BC and it is spread all over. Everyone and their grandmother has a website for hosting files, a forum for discussing their work, and god knows what else scattered all over the net. It doesn't look dead to me. The same applies to Armada.

 It certainly wont be the last forum fight in this community as long as you are still around spreading lies, blaming me for things I had nothing to do with, and making issues on how I pick filenames.

[ModelsPlease]

Imflammatory remarks are getting this nowhere. Is everyone entitled to their opinion ? Yes. But I see nothing good from everyone adding their 2 sense here. I think this should have been handled better by all parties involved. My opinion. The longer this thread goes on the worse this gets. Personally I would like to see it locked so we can move on now that the problem has been rectified. If it haSn't been rectified yet I AM ASKING RIGHT NOW ...PLEASE RECTIFY IT.

[Raven Night]

I am asking that too. Starforce, do me a favor and add the original readme to the file/s to go along with your readme. I would appreciate it.

As to the BCC/BCU split, I expected this would come up at some point. BCC and BCU are not competitors, at least from BCU's side. We do not need to compete with anyone...BCU is not in a membership contest. One patron or 10000, it will endure for years to come. Other BC sites have come and go, but BCU remains. BCC is a great site, and frankly people that did not like BCU's bugs or my strict moderation style needed a place where they could have more freedom to post what they wish. It gives people a choice, and choice is always good....I for one hope BCC continues on for a long time, and continues to flourish. We continue to promote the site.

[CC22]

I wont put it in for a number of reasons:

1) I don't want to, and shouldn't need to. There's nothing wrong with the current readme's. Just because YOU didn't write it doesn't make the information in it any more or less correct or important.

2) I have all of the nessecary credit and ship history information posted in the new readme. Whats the difference? 5kb of text is 5kb of text regardless of what file it is in. If you want to talk about childish remarks, refer to the ones you have been making, all over a text file, on 4 different forums. It's just a damn ship for god sake. A ship, BTW, where the vast majority of the work involved belongs to P81 and GAFY, whithout which (or another set of authors of similar quality of which there are not many who have done all of the nessecary parts) "your" 2 ships would exsist in the first place.

3) You've spewed this over 4 forums. Had you not done so I may have been more open to your requests. Now I am not.

Again, you want to say I am being childish? Arguing over who's text file is more important on a fictional starship? Give it up dude. This fight has gotten so pathetic I don't care who "wins" the arugement. Any newbies looking at this right now probably think we are all loosers who need to get laid.

Thats probably put a lot of people off you... although it has been clear in the past what a bad attitude you can have... Theres no need man!

[S31-Riptide]

everything has been said a million and 1 times.

Not true sir....


POOP!!! 

there everything has now been said   LMAO!!!!

[KBF-Crim]

And that is about enough of that...everyone has had their say...and then some...