Topic: Mobile rack problems.....

[F9th0mega]

the antec PSU he has is completely ample for what hes got... its not a high end graphics card, and dual core CPU's arent necessarily power whores... infact his is 65 or 89W TDP... (more likely 89) and the graphics card is very light too as its a 7300GT... Its not the PSU...

[Nemesis]

Try loading failsafe defaults in the bios.

Punishers suggestion is a good one. 

Once upon a time I was trying to install Linux on a highly tweaked system and it just would not install.  So I attempted to revert to Windows and IT wouldn't install either.  I then set the BIOS to defaults plus the minimum customizing (mostly turning off things that weren't installed or wanted) then both Linux and Windows were able to install.  You just may have some BIOS setting  or combination of settings that is fouling you up for the install.

You might  consider underclocking the CPU and memory just in case some component is running right on the edge.

[Javora]

the antec PSU he has is completely ample for what hes got... its not a high end graphics card, and dual core CPU's arent necessarily power whores... infact his is 65 or 89W TDP... (more likely 89) and the graphics card is very light too as its a 7300GT... Its not the PSU...

Didn't realize that, but then I don't think he listed his video card and I was thinking he was running in the high end.  That being the case, my focus goes back to the motherboard.  The only other thing I could think of is the data/power cables on the mobile rack but he already said that it worked with an older drive.  Have you tried contacting the motherboard maker?

[Centurus]

I loaded both the optimized and fail safe loadouts a day apart.  Problem persists.  In fact it's because of Punisher's suggestion that I attempted it.  As for underclocking the memory and CPU, they're already running at normal.  I don't think there are any settings anywhere in BIOS that will allow me to run them lower.  Although I have had some thoughts in the back of my head that the current technology may just not be compatible, either by design or by coincidence, with mobile racks.  Doubt that's the case though.

I think I still will get a larger power supply.  I originally intended to upgrade the PSU eventually cause I originally wanted a 550 watt, but could only afford the 480 trueblue 2.0 at the time.  But, like I said, my gut is telling me that my PSU isn't the problem.

Late Saturday night I sent e-mails to both the mobo manufacturer and the mobile rack manufacturer, telling them both exactly what was going on, and giving both my current system specs with model numbers.  Nothing yet.  I'm expecting them to contact me sometime either at the end of the week or middle of next week.

In the meantime, I think I'm gonna take my computer into a diagnostic place, and see if I can find someone who will actually consider the possibility that I know what I'm doing.  My mom works in data systems, and she's had to deal with a bunch of computer techs who always were big shots, like they were the best, and here comes my mom and shows them up and makes them look like idiots.  So I know how some comp techs act.  Maybe that's why I've been weary of taking my computer in, and doing the trial and error routine for figuring out the problem.

My last system had a VIA chipset, and this new one has nVidia.  I know VIA has been around much longer, cause I remember my old old OLD Pentium 166 MHz system having a VIA chipset.  Is it possible, hypothetically speaking, that the nVidia chipset technology just doesn't like having to work with mobile racks?  I have a feeling I'm just grasping at straws now.

[Dracho]

Just as a lark try disabling all the power management features, both in the bios and the OS.  I've had weird problems cause by those before and now, by default I keep it disabled.Also, on the ATA I did not mean crossing ATA and IDE, I meant ATA and SATA.  They are slightly different.. like USB 1.1 and 2.0.

[Centurus]

I do know the difference between IDE and SATA.  I've worked with computers long enough to tell what's an IDE connection and not.  That's why I said I take precautions against that.  Never more than 1 hard drive working in my computer at a time, and when I tried to setup the SATA hard drive, there were no other hard drives, IDE or otherwise, installed, and I installed the SATA drivers during Windows setup.  Also, my DVD burner is always on one IDE controller, and my IDE hard drive on another.  I had said this before.

As for power management, there aren't really any active.  Those that are are default and can't be changed, altered, or even turned off.  They're mainly power monitors making sure the vital parts are getting the proper current. 

[Centurus]

P.S.

ATA/PATA is IDE.  A computer connection of the same interface by any other name is pretty much still the same. 

[Dracho]

P.S.

ATA/PATA is IDE.  A computer connection of the same interface by any other name is pretty much still the same. 

Well now I'm confused.. My wife's PC will not run my SATA drives from my system, but it has a very small cable marked ATA that is similar to the SATA..what the hell are those things then?

[Centurus]

How old is your wife's computer?  Just recently have I seen PATA or ATA being used to describe what used to be known as IDE or EIDE.  It may be possible your wife's computer has one of the first SATA controllers that came out, when IDE was still called IDE.

[Centurus]

Oh, another name that IDE has been called by is Ultra ATA, but it's still IDE.

[Dracho]

It's a small connector, like my SATA connectors, but they are plainly labeled ATA 1, 2 3, & 4 and it will NOT run my drivers...


Er... hrm..   It's Gigabyte board with an Nvidia chipset that's about 2-3 years old.  It's running an AMD 3500.

Coincidence?

You know, for about $20 you can buy an IDE expansion board, disable the IDE controllers in the BIOS, and hook your rack to that.  If it's the motherboard, that should bypass the problem.

[Centurus]

I've never heard of a connection such as those that exist in your wife's computer.

As for the controller card, I've already mentioned at least 3 times that I've tried it, and it didn't work.  In fact, it crashed my system every time.  I first used one I had in storage that I never used, then I bought one from Adaptec, and the same thing happen.  Crashed the system.  And yes, the onboard IDE controllers on the motherboard were disabled.  The system constantly crashed.  I couldn't even install Windows cause it would crash before it could even boot from the CD.  I put the cards in different slots, and no, I didn't have the cards in at the same time. 

Scroll up about a few of my posts and you'll find the first time I reported having done this.

[Centurus]

I do know that for SATA drives, you need to run the drivers for that particular board.  Such things tend to be system specific.  You already know this though. 

As for the Gigabyte board in your wife's system and the Gigabyte board in my system being a coincidence, it could be, but I'm getting an even deeper feeling that it's not.

I got a response from Gigabyte today, and they asked if the drives are even being picked up in BIOS when installed in the mobile racks.  I must have been working on the problem too hard because I forgot to mention that they are being detected when in the mobile racks.  Hopefully I'll get another reply tomorrow.

[Nemesis]

A test you might try is to install one of the drives that is bootable directly to the controller and add one of the non bootable racked drives as well and see if windows can read the racked drive when booted from the unracked drive.  If it can in that situation read the racked drive then it is something in the boot process not a basic incompatibility with the drive.

One thing I would try (but you may not have the desire or resources to try) is booting a Linux live CD and seeing if it could read the racked drive.  Of course I'd also be installing Linux on the racked drive and seeing if it worked where Windows failed as that would remove the ability of the hardware to function together from being an issue if it worked.

In any case good luck and let us know the solution when you find it.  Hopefully Gigabyte (or the rack maker if they respond) will be able to find a solution if you don't beat them to it.

[Centurus]

I tried something similiar with the IDE cards.  I didn't even have anything connected to them, the system still crashed, again, with the motherboard IDE controlellrs disabled.

I'm hoping that I find what the problem is.

I don't know if this is an issue with Gigabyte boards in general, or just this series, or my motherboard specifically, or maybe nVidia chipsets don't like mobile racks.  *smacks his head against a spiked wall*   

So many possibilities.

[Dracho]

Does it crash when Windows is loading, or before then?

I'm wondering if replacing all the MOBO drivers might help, or flashing the BIOS.. sure sounds more and more like the board is choking.

[Centurus]

The IDE controller card caused the board to crash about a couple seconds after the card initialized, before it would try and boot the hard drives.

I already flashed the BIOS when I was finally able to get Windows installed and working the very first time.  This was a couple weeks ago when I finally got the memory I needed to get this rig stable.  It's the hard drive I'm using now, which is plugged directly to the IDE cable.

I wouldn't be surprised if the board is choking.  Like I said, the first board I had of this model crashed on it's own, without a hard drive even installed.  The second one wouldn't let me install Windows, but knowing what I know how about the OCZ memory, I think it was the memory that caused the second board to crash.  This third board, if it was 100% working fine when I got it, there is a possibility that the bad memory modules caused some damage that is manifesting itself in these unusual problems.  Then again, there's a chance the whole brand is bad.  Don't know though. 

If I return the board and get another one, since I purchased a service plan with the board, and I install the board and get the same problems, then I'm writing it off as the entire series, if not brand, that's bad, and dishing out the cash for another board.

I just wish I knew if these problems are related just to this particular motherboard, or if the technology has advanced so much that this is a permanent problem, regardless of motherboard, regardless of manufacturer.  Just frustrating now knowing.

Oh, and anyone gonna go see Man of the Year with Robin Williams?  If he were running for president for real, I'd vote for him.

[Javora]

Do you have Windows drive connected to the mobile rack?  If so try connecting it directly to the motherboard and have data-only drives connected to the mobile rack.  Then see if you can get a stable boot this way if you haven't already tried this.  Also see if those drives are recognized correctly when in Bios.  Are any of these drives unformatted?

Let me know exactly how Bios lists these drives as(including boot order), if there listed at all.  Now that I'm thinking of it, when you install Windows were all the drives connected at the same time during the install?


I have a idea but I need more information, I don't want to waste any more of your time than I already have.

[Sirgod]

OT: Haven't seen that, I did watch RV the other day with Robin Williams, and found it to be OK.

How did the Man of the Year compare to one of my personal fav's My Fellow Americans?

Anywho, when It comes to IDE cards, and power supplies, I'm not the guy to ask. The best I could offer, is I do have an extra PS that's 550 watts, that I guess I could loan you. It's of course a backup for me, But If It turns out to be the MB, then It really isn't needed.

stephen

[Centurus]

I've already mentioned several times how the hard drives are connected, but I'll repeat myself again.

The hard drive, with Windows or just set for storage, will not boot in the mobile racks.  They crash for some reason, and I don't know why.  Power is not the problem, and I doubt the IDE connection to the bay and inside the tray are the problem, because, as I said before, and old 80 gig and 13 gig that I put in my mobile racks work fine, and I always, ALWAYS, do clean formats of any drive I use if I build a new system. 

BIOS picks up the hard drives regardless of how they're installed.  They show the drive model number of the particular hard drive connected at the time.  The only drive that was unformatted was my 250 gig hard drive that I bought during the weekend, and the same problem persists, when in mobile racks, they don't work; when outside, they do. 

Since I am not using a combo of IDE and SATA drives, the hard drive's are listed according to the IDE controller they're connected to, and what jumper settings are in use on the hard drive, and as I said before that I never really have 2 or more drives installed at the same time, all my hard drives are set to master, and no, they are not in the computer at the same time, so they can't conflict.  Again, said this before.  Also, as I had said before, I always have my hard drives on the first IDE channel, and my DVD burner on the second.  They never are on the same channel, and aside from my zip drive that's currently unplugged, both power plug and IDE connection, the DVD drive doesn't share the IDE channel with any other device.  And BIOS is set for auto detect of any devices, even for the SATA controllers.  It's the only way to go.

As for installing multiple installations of Windows, I like to be safe.  I actually go through the long long process of formatting and installing Windows on each drive individually.  This is the best method for me since, to me, it's the simplest.  I don't have to worry about screwing up the format or Windows install on another hard drive, nor on the hard drive I'm setting up at the time.

One thing I haven't mentioned though is someting that just came to mind just now writing this post is that once, in trying to diagnose this problem, I turned off the first IDE channel and plugged the hard drive into the second IDE channel, with the hard drive set to master and DVD set to slave.  Someone had recommended that I try it to see if it worked.  It didn't.  In fact, the system took about a minute and a half trying to detect any connected drives, and then it would just hang.  Hell, it was worth a shot.

Setting up my mobile racks for simply storage drives is not really an option to me.  In my very first post, with the copied post I had pasted, I said I wasn't the only one that uses this computer, so having separate hard drives is best, that way I don't have to worry about any of my stuff on my hard drive being screwed up, and vice versa.  Each drive has it's own install of Windows, and it's own programs.  Makes life much easier for me.  So having one main drive always installed and having storage in mobile racks isn't an option for me.  If my mom uses the computer and accidentially does something that causes the system to crash, not only is she down, but so am I, and I've gotta spend time trying to get back up and running.  And if the hard drive just dies for no reason, again, same problem.  Gotta spend time trying to get back up and running, only this time, I gotta take the time to open the case and replace the hard drive. 

With the mobile rack setup I've always used, one drive has a problem, I can pull it out and put in another one and suffer really no down time, and if a drive is about to die, I can transfer the data to another storage device before the drive is inoperable.  Also, if I get a new larger hard drive for either myself or my mom, formatting and setting it up is easy, cause I can just put the drive in a mobile rack tray, lock it into the rack, and start setting up Windows, without having to worry about a permanent drive inside the computer.

If I have appeared frustrated, I apologize.  Just that I keep getting asked the same questions over and over again after I answer them, and not so much here on these forums, just everywhere.