Topic: Sector Assault imported damage lesson learned

[Skaren]

Magnums Sector assault will only give you startup damage if you use the folder located in the traditional Taldren spot.

If like me you have a bazzilion folders of Taldren on your desktop for different games and you use one not in the normal path it will not grab imported damage.  Yes I did mod the appropriate folders scripts.ini for imported damage.

I tried this test several times because I got frustrated in our recent campaign battle in which damage was not importing from a prior battle.

I am guessing the registry looks at only that spot ??

Just thought I would share that tad of knowledge with you all.

S

[KBF-Crim]

Cool.

[Dizzy]

Run this by me again how what scripts or methods are used to keep track of ship damage from mission to mission plz.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

It is not mission to mission capable, nor is it for the D2, Dizzy.

Skaren is talking about a multiplayer script that MagnumMan last worked on over 2 years ago.

You can, apparently only when using the proper folder, add start up damage to any ship in the list. Also, at the end, it will report what damage was received to which ship.

There are several bugs in it that I have been trying to get some scripters to look into for about 2 years now.  Supplies being one of the biggest issues when bases are involved.

[Skaren]

Ya Bearslayer is right it is not used in Dyna, you guys carry damage from mission to mission already without its use.

Carrying damage across campaign battles is key for us, cause we do not use Dyna.  Ya Bearslayer,.. our mission to mission capable is the ref acting as the Dyna engine.   

We find Sector Assault works great if you do not tamper with the base loadouts.  The only one you can is drone speed without causing issues.  So you can still run all the stuff BS, BATS, SB etc,.. just basic, no adding cheesy fighters (on the bases) and such. 

Without Sector Assaults the campaigns I run would not be possible.

I also learned tonight that sector assault works on GSA both importing damage for a battle and exporting damaged ship results to the root of C: as it is supposed too.  I was not positive that was the case.  We normally do IP hosted games.

[Bartok]

Interesting thread -

I'm not familiar with Sector Assault - ne linX to a description?  -- must admit i'm also curious about your "campaign" Skaren - any screendumps;)

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

An example of the SA dump:

Sector Assault Results
======================

Team 1: on Home (Defender) Team
    Ships Remaining:
        Ship Name 'Starbase'; Type H-SBF+; Endgame Health 17.2%
    Ships Disengaged:
    Ships Destroyed:

Team 2: on Away (Attacker) Team
    Ships Remaining:
        Ship Name 'IKV Inviolable'; Type K-B10K; Endgame Health 39.4%
        ---->> CAPTURED BY TEAM 1 <<----
        Ship Name 'IKV Rapier'; Type K-D5; Endgame Health 87.5%
        ---->> CAPTURED BY TEAM 1 <<----
        Ship Name 'IKV Renegade'; Type K-D5; Endgame Health 81.3%
        ---->> CAPTURED BY TEAM 1 <<----
    Ships Disengaged:
    Ships Destroyed:

Team 3: on Away (Attacker) Team
    Ships Remaining:
        Ship Name 'IKV Triumphant'; Type K-C7V; Endgame Health 70.5%
        ---->> CAPTURED BY TEAM 1 <<----
    Ships Disengaged:
    Ships Destroyed:
        Ship Name 'IKV Raider'; Type K-D5E
        Ship Name 'IKV Battle Defender'; Type K-FWE

Team 7: on Home (Defender) Team
    Ships Remaining:
    Ships Disengaged:
    Ships Destroyed:

Team 8: on Home (Defender) Team
    Ships Remaining:
    Ships Disengaged:
    Ships Destroyed:


You can actually change the fighters, but it would have to be done manually.

[Skaren]

If we change the fighters we have found that is where and when the sector assault goes a little screwball.  Nothing worse than in a campaign battle, for something to go haywire.  Folks can get pretty "into" running their nations and we don't want anyone upset. 

We leave em stock for the Ref's safety   

I post about the game occasionally.

I think the slower pace of the game would drive many of you nutters to drink,... er,.. nevermind.   

You can read about it here and check out the current link.

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163369458.0.html

Bartok, we put the Babylon 5 campaign on hold for a while as we had an influx of new players and wanted to do a small scale training campaign before we ran a more complicated biggy.  Figure they can make the mistakes in a short running one.  I will get you those screen shots of your models in action when we run that one, probably for winter of this year.  Turn one of our current training campaign saw 28 ships destroyed, so this game called "All Out War" is living up to its name and should end shortly.

S

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

I think the slower pace of the game would drive many of you nutters to drink,... er,.. nevermind.   

Actually, it is probably something the PvPers would live for... every battle can be important and every territory can be defended.

No need to worry about hex flippers.

[Dizzy]

More info plz

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

About what?

Some of them are PBR type leagues with more grandiose settings. (ie 3 v 3 only)

The old STOC VG game was more realistic (IMO).

We basicly played a modified F&E game were production, movement, and everything else was done in a turn based mode.  But combat was done via MPlayer or GSA.

There were plenty of times where much larger fleets either forced a smaller fleet to battle or to disengage.  (my three fav battles had 1) a H-LB & H-LN vs K-D5C, 2X K-D5'S (the LB & a D5 were damaged and had to repair, a D5C & the other D5 were destroyed, LN got away unscathed) 2) a K-BS defended by a D7C, D6D, and a F5C against an LB, LM, RN & 2 CRU's.  BS destroyed with the F5C; the D7C, LB, & CRU were all damaged) and 3) a Fed BATS with a CC+ & NCL+ defended against 2 R-WE's, and another 2 frigate sized ships (that I can't remember) and the BATS went down.  The CC+ was also lost, but the coup of the game was when I (flying the NCL+) captured one of the WE's.  That crashed the game and thus (for us at least) discovering the capture bug in SA script. It crashes the mission.

By damaged, we used the 50% scale, if it went under 50% BPV damage at any point in the mission (needed to provide screen shots), the ship had to move to a planet or base for more extensive repairs.

[Skaren]

I agree,.. more info about what ?

If it is our campaigns you just have to look over the web site, but yes it is as Bearslayer says.

Ya we do a modified F&E style game with a campaign turns broken into 3 impulses (1 hex movement/impulse) of campaign movement.  We use reactionary movement similar to F&E and others if plotted etc it is all in the rules.

Once fleets meet, battle is done with SFC on machines I host.  We have rules for disengagement if a large fleet meets a small one etc.  Repair rules, building yada yada.

Ya it is all PVP, and you run a fleet/nation as opposed to one flotilla.  You do personally place yourself on a ship though and if you get killed the killer gets 50 EP (economic points/BPV) plus bragging rights 

The thing that I was saying would drive you folks nuts is that we allow one week of negotiation time between nations, and a lot of folks say that is not enough ! (there is often alot to politics)   Then we usually allow 2 weeks for battles to get done as many of us are busy with families etc.

So when you look at 3 weeks for 1 turn that is a lot different than Dyna where you can play for like 4 hours a night.  People tend to fly pick up battles when they are waiting for turns to move along, and some times there are few battles or they get done quickly and turns move along rapidly.

Still these types of campaigns offer many things dyna cannot, both types have their strong points and both have their weak points.


This link is our last campaign that ended recently, it ran about 9 months and was fantastic.  15 turns culminating in a mega battle with all the players fighting the Borg at the center of the galaxy around a worm hole that had been weaponized to bath the galaxy in a deadly radiation.  Throughtout the campaign what the players did not know was that while they were fighting each other the Borg were powering up the super weapon, clues were scattered about on the map and derelict ships.  In the end, the game either ended on turn 15 when the device went off or the players rallied, put their own disputes aside and attacked the Borg.  We allowed a specail overstack on the central hex of the campaign so that 15 Allied ships could fight the Borg that were there.   What a fun battle that was  !!  It was most interesting as a Ref to watch those that were enemies trying to figure out how to work together,.. the alternative was the game ended at turn 15.  In the end most folks did not send the biggest stuff they had to the Borg battle and they lost it.  One guy sent a Tug 

I should post the pictures from that games finally battle/party, you folks would chuckle.

http://sfbuaw.com/index.php



This is our current one small scale training one for the newbies   http://sfbuaw.com/Training.php

[Dizzy]

Well, it'd probably be better to do it on an sql dynaverse server simply for the matchups... damage and spares are better kept track of and you could switch/pull missions beforehand on the server to get the script you want. That way a 3v3 team could field more than 3 ships using the OCI. So you could have 18 vs 18 ship furball with 6 players. Feasable, but too laggy, but you get the idea.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Actually, a SQL ran turn would be a God send in that type of game.... we used CyberBoard and Excel worksheets for movement and production.

Then someone had to move & add all the pieces around each turn then move/remove them at the end of all the combats.

[KBF-Crim]

Actually, a SQL ran turn would be a God send in that type of game.... we used CyberBoard and Excel worksheets for movement and production.

Then someone had to move & add all the pieces around each turn then move/remove them at the end of all the combats.

They key would be getting the tiles to interact with the map ,so the game would then load a configurable mission to be run, then in turn update the map after the mission,...

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Are you volunteering to make it?

[KBF-Crim]

Are you volunteering to make it?

Bleh...I can barely program a DVDR....

[Skaren]

I do find it pretty cool that you folks are even discussing it.

So Krim,.. my question is why the need for missions in a turn based game?  I know in dyna you use them for money to buy better ships.  In my games you use control of planetary systems for EP/BPV to build new ships.  Control of resources is what should matter not how many hours you have played.   If your going turn based, missions should not matter.  You play only in terrain dictated by the map and where you have battles,  at the end of a turn you tally up hexes that produce EP and spend to build ships (those take turns depending on the size).

http://sfbuaw.com/UAWmap.htm  last campaign map with worm holes to a secondary map.  Systems produced EP based on the type of system.

In our games missions are developed by the natural course of the game.  IE someone is building a B11K at a base and you want to kill it before it is finished.  Or for example in our current game the Federation President has led an attack into Klingon, now damaged he is trying to get back out with a damaged fleet while Klingon units are converging on his space.  The game and players in a way create the missions themselves. 

I realize that this is like trying to rebuild a car from the ground up, but it is at least fun to hear the ideals inbetween dyna's

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

The last turn map for STOC's VG

[Skaren]

That is a super super nice map,..  The only issue I quickly see is that is a hell of a lot of ships and therefor a hell of a lot of battles.

Should I dare speculate that the game ended unable to resolve the large number of battles?

Excessive scale has killed many a campaign of mine, particularly if building is not kept low. 

Can you get me a base map without the ships on it ?

Pretty pretty please ?

[Skaren]

Man the more I look it over the better the map is.  Still the more I look it over the more I see hunderds and hundreds of ships.

That sorta scale is beyond the ability to resolve at least with my current methods.

How long did it last?  how many turns?  What ended it?

I would take a section of that map and use it.

PS I backtracked a little on the web address, that is fine site, I can see I will be taking a long lunch break tomorrow to digest it, look for rules, etc.  I have heard of this F&E interface and clearly need to learn more about it.  The only thing I do not like is the fleet locations are public.  Stll did I mention that is a nice map 

[KBF-Crim]

I do find it pretty cool that you folks are even discussing it.

So Krim,.. my question is why the need for missions in a turn based game?  I know in dyna you use them for money to buy better ships.  In my games you use control of planetary systems for EP/BPV to build new ships.  Control of resources is what should matter not how many hours you have played.   If your going turn based, missions should not matter.  You play only in terrain dictated by the map and where you have battles,  at the end of a turn you tally up hexes that produce EP and spend to build ships (those take turns depending on the size).

http://sfbuaw.com/UAWmap.htm  last campaign map with worm holes to a secondary map.  Systems produced EP based on the type of system.

In our games missions are developed by the natural course of the game.  IE someone is building a B11K at a base and you want to kill it before it is finished.  Or for example in our current game the Federation President has led an attack into Klingon, now damaged he is trying to get back out with a damaged fleet while Klingon units are converging on his space.  The game and players in a way create the missions themselves. 

I realize that this is like trying to rebuild a car from the ground up, but it is at least fun to hear the ideals inbetween dyna's

problem with turn based games..

unavaialble 24/7

No automation...Some of this stuff simply needs to be played against AI...

As you say...scale..

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Made a relatively nice post for you Skaren, unfortunately, Dnet ate it when it went down...


http://coinich.com/starfleet/oclub/vg2.php

Is the STOC site with all the info you need....

[Skaren]

I have played with the Cyberboard stuff before and you cannot open VG2.gbx with any of the versions of Cyberboard.

I downloaded 3 different versions of it after the one on the website fails to open it.

It was a dead end for me.

Krim, then you need to look at why someone would set up a game that has an improper scale.  That does not "have" to be the case.  You only need to fall back to AI battles when the scale is set wrong to begin with.   For the most part AI battles are pretty lame, and the outcome pretty predictable.

Because you cannot play it 24/24 does not mean it is not worth playing.  You still can enjoy Dyna's 24/24.  The turn based games can offer so much more.  If run properly and designed well to begin with.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

The file must be corrupted then, b/c I am getting the same info.... I am checking to see if I might have another copy stored away from when I was playing, but I doubt it.

BTW, you asked how many turns it went.  The first one I was involved with got to turn 22 before we switched to SCFII... That is when the VG2 came out and that lasted 26 turns. 

It ended well over a year & a half ago and we ran 48 turns between my joining in '99 and my leaving in 2004.

So it averaged about 1 turn a month.

[Skaren]

Sounds like a real nice campaign. 

If I recall about 9 months ago you proposed a F&E style game that got bogged down in,.. um,.. discussions.  I wish you had continued.  Sometimes better to just make the calls and game rather than have endless loops of talks.

I think it funny that the two different campaigns (STOC and mine)  evolved independently but have a lot in common, even the turn length is very close.

So how did damage get tracked in STOC?  Wouldn't that put it pre Sector Assault?  We used to do SFB campaigns and the first SFC one, had no damage carry over, it was either unit killed or 100% health in next battle.  Everyone was pretty excited to see Sector Assault Mod, it has become the corner stone of our campaigns.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Some of STOC was pre SA, especially the VG1 campaign. I entered the original VG in Turn 8 as a Fed.  And honestly, I don't think I  have the VG rules from SFCI to check what we did to resolve base attacks.  I do know it was very important to me as the Hydran leader as bases provided supply for fleets (3 hex range) and I took out a lot of Klink bases to secure my borders during VG2. (doncha just love the lack of bases along the klink/hydran border? )

Damage was pretty simple, if a ship took over 50% damage in combat, it was considered damaged on the VG map (look for the ones with red lines across the tile).  That meant no strategic movement (which was only base to base anyways) and it had to be repaired at a base or FRD (the tiles with the big H on them).  If they got into combat, spd 15 was the max it could do (player enforced there) and SA provided random 50% damage.  In the original rules, they took on class smaller to represent the damaged ship. (ie a Fed CL would represent a damaged Fed CC/CA)

As for starting up a similar game, yeah, I got discouraged... if I start back up again, I will probably start with the STOC VG2 Rule set and modify from there.  A lot of it worked quite well.  Battle resolution is quite the bugger for large fleets though.