Topic: Would Jahkle's PBR system work in D2?

[KHH Jakle]

Some things you need to think about when trying to introduce some PBR concepts to D2 (my unqualified opinion):

You shouldn't need to deal with the nitty gritty detail to emulate a PBR type environment.

Try reverse engineering it.  Instead of having to deal with keeping track of what everybody was flying, simply restrict all the restricted ships (so Command, Carrier/Escorts, Support).  Then ONLY line ships (use PBR's definition or a relaxed set) would be available for general consumption. 

I believe then that in other servers, it has been demonstrated that it can be set up so that the few restricted ships (BCH's for example) could be 'assigned' to specific owners - is this not correct?

Of course, you could then end up with everybody flying around in Heavy Cruisers...not that this is inherently bad.  Is that any worse than then EVERYBODY flying around in friggin CC's? 

Well...of course, the average Heavy Cruiser is inferior to it's CC.  But that was always the point - this game isn't a test between you and the other Capt on a level playing field, it is a test in how you fight YOUR ship, warts and all.  You want a level playing field, lets all just suit up in blue and do Mirror/Mirror.

[Skaren]

This was a suggestion a while ago,..


It seems to me the issue is that everyone takes all these specialty ships over the regular line ships,.. why cause they are better.

How about restricting what people can buy ?  When I go to a dealership for a car, the Lamborghini is not even in the lot for purchase.  Is there no way to limit the ship selection to line ships with only "occasionally" there being some small number of specialty ships available.   Do players always have to have like 20-30 ships to choose from ?  What if for some turns of the game only line ships were in the dock for purchase, with an occasional specialty ship.  Maybe some level of randomness to what is in the dock can be generated with some PHP code.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

The General War 5 server was the death of the OOB system where specialty ships and heavy metal were specifically assigned to players.

I for one will Never play on a server with that type of OOB again, suffered through it once and that was enough.

[762_XC]

The General War 5 server was the death of the OOB system where specialty ships and heavy metal were specifically assigned to players.

I wouldn't be too sure of that.

[Skaren]

Chuut,

What was bad about it?

I did not play in it.

S

[Capt Jeff]

I assigned ships to specific players on SS2.  What a terrible idea that was really.


You assign a person a large ship, then for whatever reason, they don't log in for 5 days+ leaving their side without a valuable asset.

Now, SS3 will have fleeting rules.  No capital ships fleeting, no CF's or 6 racks droners fleeting with each other or other capital ships.

And I need Dizzy to send me his SGO6 rules for his points system for capital ships so I can look that over.

[762_XC]

It was only terrible because you couldn't transfer the ship to someone else. It's more work to keep track of that way, but much more rewarding when you kill something.

[Dizzy]

I assigned ships to specific players on SS2.  What a terrible idea that was really.


You assign a person a large ship, then for whatever reason, they don't log in for 5 days+ leaving their side without a valuable asset.

Now, SS3 will have fleeting rules.  No capital ships fleeting, no CF's or 6 racks droners fleeting with each other or other capital ships.

And I need Dizzy to send me his SGO6 rules for his points system for capital ships so I can look that over.

It's all right here Jeff. PM me for any question.

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163369012.msg1122732962.html#msg1122732962

[FPF-DieHard]

I love OOB BUT IT IS A COLLASAL PAIN IN THE ASS!   

Maybe if SQL worked


Fleeting rules seem the best way to go, let's BS about this tonight when we blow some p00p up.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I love OOB BUT IT IS A COLLASAL PAIN IN THE ASS!   

Maybe if SQL worked

Couldn't agree more...

[Toast]

Pbr went for what 3 or 4 seasons? and their was different rule additions as we all went along dunno if anyone kept rule sets from the 1st thru the last. maybe someone has em, seemed the 1st was rather simple if I recall start from the 1st if yeh gotem and see what fits Pbr was great fun as it went along some of the best battles win or loss i personally ever flew in  I never got into the dyna side of things will keep a watch an see what yeh all come up with.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chuut,

What was bad about it?

I did not play in it.

S

Aside from the complications of assignments and lack of transfers for the OOB ships, it was incredibly unfriendly for the newer players and non aces.

If an OOB ship was lost it was gone for good, so suppose you had a newbie who wanted to fly DNs, either you tell the newbie they can't, or that they must fly off the front lines, or you let them do it and were likely to lose the ship for good.  Thats assuming the newbie/non-ace would even dare to ask to fly one, even if they wanted to they were likely deterred by not wanting to hurt the team. 

[762_XC]

That is indeed the downside, which is balanced by the upside that a DN kill is a significant blow to the enemy and can alter the balance of power on the front line.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

That is indeed the downside, which is balanced by the upside that a DN kill is a significant blow to the enemy and can alter the balance of power on the front line.

I don't see that as coming close to balancing the disadvantage of not encouraging newer players and non aces to get to fly what they want to without worry of hurting the team.  Especially when you add in all the complicated record keeping and the lack of ability for all players to fly whatever ship they are in the mood to fly.  I know I wont be flying on a server like GW5 ever again, but some might enjoy such a server, no reason they shouldn't have the chance to participate in another one if they want to and someone is willing to run it, you might get enough participation to make it worthwhile, but i don't think it would be a good one for newbies and non-aces.

[762_XC]

Well, that's your opinion.

It depends on what you look for in a campaign.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

PBR was awesome in the GZ league.  Those three-on-three fights were the best SFC combats I've ever played, in any form of the game.  If PBR can be adapted to work in the D2 format I would certainly enjoy it.

To borrow an idea from Squadron Commander, if you want to make it really simple, just give all ships a prefix of c, l, or s. (For command, line, or support.)  Solo with only one ship, you fly what you want.  If you have a wingman or multiple ships, however, only one "c" and only one "s" is allowed in your group.  If multiple versions of these get accidentally drafted together, someone just has to leave.

In this scheme, I'd consider all true carriers to be "c" ships.    Many Hydran hybrids, however, would be "l".   

-S'Cipio

[el-Karnak]

Scripts can be modified to read-in the prefixes of the ship names of the players involved in a PvP fight. If the proper OOB is not set up then the mission can simply end right away in a draw explaining that the proper OOB was not setup for the mission (ie. too many specialist ships on one side, no line ships when needed, etc.).

Only if the proper configs. of line ships were valid for both sides would the mission continue in a PvP scenario.  No checks would be done in a PvAI mission.

Just a spontaneous idea that came to me while reading this thread.

  OR

[GDA-Agave]

Someone asked about the rules set for the PBR league.   I might have a copy at home.  I'll check and get back to you.

I liked the PBR fleet restrictions.   If they could be adopted for fleets in our dyna servers that would be great.  Just the 3 categories of command, line, and support(speciality) I think would be necessary.   Any fleets, whether mixed or of only one race, would have to meet this requirement to run missions together.   In instances where allies are drafted and the fleet does not match requirements, one player should agree to fly out of mission. (players' choice)   This rule would have to be in effect for all missions, live or AI, so that good flipping tandoms were not used.   Another pilot's honor system item.

Each and every race would have to be looked at and come to a majority decision or what would be a command, line, or support ship.   Certain races would prove easier, i.e. Gorn, Romulans, Lyrans, but other like the ISC, Hydrans, Feds would prove a little more difficult.   Those lists should be posted on the forums here so that general feedback could be obtained from the WHOLE community.  Yes, it would be a pain, but a needed step, IMHO.


As for the strict OOB rules used in the General War servers, I whole-heartedly agree with Chuut here.   I did not like the system.  It opens the door to favoritism and bias when ship are being given out.   Sure, there were some good examples of newer, non-ace players being given these ships, but it usually only occurred under strict restrictions of usuage by the ace or elder players.  Sure the OIC may prove to make the ship switches easier, but it was never the bookkeeping aspect of the OOB that turned my off on it.  It was the elements of "exclusiveness" that turned me off.   Unless some very serious improvements are made to any OOB system in the future, I would probably not fly any server with them again.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Scripts can be modified to read-in the prefixes of the ship names of the players involved in a PvP fight. If the proper OOB is not set up then the mission can simply end right away in a draw explaining that the proper OOB was not setup for the mission (ie. too many specialist ships on one side, no line ships when needed, etc.).

Only if the proper configs. of line ships were valid for both sides would the mission continue in a PvP scenario.  No checks would be done in a PvAI mission.

Just a spontaneous idea that came to me while reading this thread.

  OR

Now that's a very interesting idea.   Any chance it could be made to work only on players with multiple ships?   I'm willing to let drafted players leave the map to fix the mix, since you never know whom you may draft.   Better to have one player leave than to lose the whole mission.

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

Here is what I'm thinking will work for D2 PBR.   This will be simple enough to organize on the flront line, should not be too restrictive, and should accomplish something similar to the Cheese reduction found in Jahkle's PBR setup.

-  Catpital ships cannot fleet together.   This included but is not limited to DNs, BCHs, BBs, and fast cruisers (gotta do this after the abuse on SGO6)
- In a 3 ship fleet, one ship MUst be vannilla Line (non-command). 
- Only 1 PPD equiped ship in a Fleet (this will start flames    )

Carriers: (this assumes the fighter/PF compliments we are using in the current test setup)

- 2 ship Fleet:  A Carrier MUST wing with an escort of the same race
- 3 Ship Fleet:  first wing MUST be an Escort of the same Race. second wing can be an Escort OR an line (non-command) ship of the same/Allied Race.