Topic: Would Jahkle's PBR system work in D2?

[FPF-DieHard]

Jahkle's PBR setup was awsome though kinda complicated.  this did lead to soem pretty balanced and non-cheesy combinations.

You guys think this could be adapted to D2?   We seem to be slowly heading this way anway, maybe embracing this is the best way to end the cheese fleets that everyone (myself included) seem to always put together.

Imagine, having to have Carrier escorted only by escorts, a 3-ship fleet MUST contain a line ship, etc . . .

Those who played PBR should chime in, do you guys think this idea makes sense?

[Dfly]

I have always liked it.  I would approve of at least running one campaign with similar rulings.

[Hexx]

I didn't get to play it. In fact I believe it shut down right after I asked if I could join.

However (iirc) it was based on an idea that you could only have 1 command variant in a fleet?
While I really don';t have an issue with restricting specialty, and like the idea of carriers/tenders having to be escorted by escorts
Not sure if I want to set up a fleet where a couple of peeps get thrown into standard ships.

Now, if you used it to set up what could wing with metal/carriers/tenders/etc that would be cool.

[FPF-DieHard]

I didn't get to play it. In fact I believe it shut down right after I asked if I could join.

However (iirc) it was based on an idea that you could only have 1 command variant in a fleet?
While I really don';t have an issue with restricting specialty, and like the idea of carriers/tenders having to be escorted by escorts
Not sure if I want to set up a fleet where a couple of peeps get thrown into standard ships.

Now, if you used it to set up what could wing with metal/carriers/tenders/etc that would be cool.

We'd have to modify this somehow.   There was no race mixing in PBR for example and it would have to be simnplfied

[Hexx]

Simplifying is easy, just put a letter a/b/c/whatver in front/behind the shipname and use it fo the resticted ships
(V has to wing with an "A", can't have 2 "B"s in a fleet, etc)

It'd just have to be decided how far you want to go.

[TraumaTech]

i think Jakle had it right with his version of PBR


difficulties i c for  PBR on the dynaverse is,if you use that type of set up,is that anyone flying solo would only be allowed to use particular ships  ie; droners were classed as support ships(as i recall) so your hex flippers would have to wing with some one to fly a droner.which is kinda kewl,slows the nutter flippers who change the whole maps in one night down considerably. flippers and solo pvp players may not be impressed with thier selection of ships which might uninspire  some players

 i don't think you need to have a heavy metal limit  as heavy metal =command varient  which can only be flown 3v3   can't remember if they were allowed in 2v2's  but i have the links on my old computer to Jakles site re; rules / what ship was considered what and when they could be flown   also break down on each ships races   if you don't already have these links

personally  i think allowing multi races fleet combo would be a good idea  simply to add variety to ship selections   especially for your solo players  whether flippers or pvp players

[Dfly]

I have a copy of all the allowable ships for each race on my computer.  I think the sites where the lists were had been taken down some time ago.

[762_XC]

PBR would be cool but it would have to be a "concept server", similar to Litterbox 4 with full OOB. Grognards will love it and casual players won't even bother to show because of the complexity.

You will need a means of dealing with the inevitable illegal fleets that people field due to lack of rules awareness. Even in the league we had this, and people had weeks to prepare combos.

[FPF-DieHard]

This would have to be simplyfied and modified from the league format, for one thing I think solo pilots should be able to fly whatever specialty ships they want.  Maybe just as simple as a 3-ship fleet must have one line ship and the carrier/escort thingy.

This makes for a good discussion.

[TraumaTech]

PBR would be cool but it would have to be a "concept server", similar to Litterbox 4 with full OOB. Grognards will love it and casual players won't even bother to show because of the complexity.

You will need a means of dealing with the inevitable illegal fleets that people field due to lack of rules awareness. Even in the league we had this, and people had weeks to prepare combos.

   agreed    how ever  being that you can put whatever ships you want in a shipyard  ....could you not add categories to the shipyards   ie   command varients under one selction,supports under another,escorts and carriers under another....and then your, for lack of a better term..vanillla ships under another list in the shipyard????  of coarse this presupposes that the "OIC " is still not working by this time,which i see turns into something far easier to do if all the ships  ie  frigates,lites,heavies and dreads had a further breakdown of what is command varient,support,carriers,and escorts  and finally what is left is your vanilla fleet......mind you,i say all this having NO idea of how much work,Bonk AND OR Mags would have to do to the  "OIC" to incorporate all this

[FPF-DieHard]

PBR would be cool but it would have to be a "concept server", similar to Litterbox 4 with full OOB. Grognards will love it and casual players won't even bother to show because of the complexity.

You will need a means of dealing with the inevitable illegal fleets that people field due to lack of rules awareness. Even in the league we had this, and people had weeks to prepare combos.

   agreed    how ever  being that you can put whatever ships you want in a shipyard  ....could you not add categories to the shipyards   ie   command varients under one selction,supports under another,escorts and carriers under another....and then your, for lack of a better term..vanillla ships under another list in the shipyard????  of coarse this presupposes that the "OIC " is still not working by this time,which i see turns into something far easier to do if all the ships  ie  frigates,lites,heavies and dreads had a further breakdown of what is command varient,support,carriers,and escorts  and finally what is left is your vanilla fleet......mind you,i say all this having NO idea of how much work,Bonk AND OR Mags would have to do to the  "OIC" to incorporate all this

It's not too hard, use desginator int eh shipname:

F-cCC+, F-NCA (no designator), F-vCVS+, . . .

[762_XC]

The designators would be mandatory.

It might be interesting to try; I predict carriers will never be flown though.

A LOT of people will bitch when they realize two command ships cannot fleet together.

[FPF-DieHard]

It might be interesting to try; I predict carriers will never be flown though.

Not if Hexx has his way . . . .   

A LOT of people will bitch when they realize two command ships cannot fleet together.

I don't think they will, or maybe we Should let CCs fly together.   It's all up for debate

Inter-race fleet needs to be hammered out

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Might work for a specialty server as t00l says for the Ladder league types.  I might give it a try once, but I suspect I'd lose interest pretty quick and find myself playing City of Heroes again.  I could be surprised, but I wasn't very interested in any ladder leaugue pay, and although I enjoyed filling in as a replacement from time to time, such stringent structures just don't hold my interest.  Still, I'd be willing to try it once, if I could manage to stick it out on GW5 I figure I'm willing to tolerate anything once.

In all honesty however, for my personal preferences this is a step in the wrong direction.  I think its ok to reward certain ship choices but I'm very much against restricting of others except at the furthest end of the spectrum.

[762_XC]

I think if you let command ships wing there's no point to it at all. The whole point of PBR is to make fleets more SFB-ish.

[FPF-DieHard]

In all honesty however, for my personal preferences this is a step in the wrong direction.  I think its ok to reward certain ship choices but I'm very much against restricting of others except at the furthest end of the spectrum.

You can fly whatever you want solo, just have restrictions as to what can fly together

[FPF-DieHard]

I think if you let command ships wing there's no point to it at all. The whole point of PBR is to make fleets more SFB-ish.

The point of this is general CHeese reduction, it doesn't have to be exactly the same as PBR.  D2's fluid nature means this has to be more flexible

[FPF-Paladin]

I like the idea... looked into it myself a while back while tossing server ideas around.

[762_XC]

Well if you want a vastly simplified version of it, just make a rule that says you can only have one specialty ship in any given fleet.

But I wouldn't call it "PBR" as a big part of that is the command ship limitations.

[ShadowLord]

I think jakle just got busy with R/L issues and his new game "dawn of war" so PBR sort of died out -- those who took part in it -- for the most part found it very refreshing for the concepts of  -- NO CHEESE -- and learning to out think the other team in ship selection.

All that being said if it could work for a campaign great --

However maybe we should take one weekend -- and hold a nice little PBR funfest..

FSD would join (I assume)
XC ( I assume)
KHH
several indy team -- heck all we need is 4-6 teams and we got a night of great fun. Someone needs to step up and put that in place.

Duck