Topic: And Honda says

[Jack Morris]

http://www.hondacleanup.com/KAB_Grant.html

   Most pounds of litter and debris collected: Keep Milwaukee Beautiful (Milwaukee, Wisconsin)

Yo Wisconsin residents? You may want to pick up your trash?

 

That is NOT an award I would be proud of.

[Jack Morris]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060829/auto_sales_outlook.html?.v=3

AP
Slow Aug. Sales Seen for U.S. Automakers
Tuesday August 29, 4:29 pm ET
By Tom Krisher, Associated Press Writer 
Analysts Expect Slow August Sales for U.S. Automakers; Asian Markets to Benefit From Shift


FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich. (AP) -- Just a few miles from General Motors Corp.'s world headquarters in Detroit, Laurie Shedron gave up her 2002 Pontiac Grand Am GT for a brand-new silver Honda Civic.
She didn't even look at another Pontiac, instead going for a Honda because of its reputation for fuel economy and reliability. Unfortunately for the domestic Big Three, more people are making the same decision as Shedron.

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Some analysts say foreign automakers have more to offer in the current market, and they expect that trend to continue when August sales figures come out on Friday. The biggest beneficiaries of the shift, those analysts say, will continue to be Honda Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp., both of which are expected to have good months.

At Suburban Honda in the Detroit suburb of Farmington Hills, the prediction played itself out on Monday as Shedron picked up her new car.

"I wanted to try this," said the 50-year-old resident of nearby Plymouth. "I hear they last a long time. This way you can hold off on it longer and put on more miles."

Jesse Toprak, chief economist for Edmunds.com, an automotive Web site, predicted that auto sales overall will be up about 1 percent over a relatively slow August 2005, but he looks for 12 percent declines at DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group and Ford Motor Co. due to their heavy reliance on trucks.

Goldman Sachs analyst Robert Barry also expects Chrysler to be down 12 percent and Ford off 11 percent.

Last month, Toyota Motor Corp. -- the most formidable of the foreign competitors -- outsold Ford for the first time, but Toprak said that may not happen again this month.

Toprak expects Honda sales to be flat with August 2005, when the company had a big sales month.

"In the short term, we can't expect too much from Chrysler and Ford simply because they will not have competitive products in the marketplace," Toprak said.

Although Ford sales likely are to drop when compared to last August, Toprak predicts they will rise 5 percent compared to July, boosting its sales back above Toyota.

Toyota should see an 18 percent increase over August 2005, but its sales likely will be flat when compared to July, Toprak said.

Honda sales should continue to grow slowly, Toprak said, largely because of the Civic and Accord cars.

Barry predicted flat GM sales, while Toprak is forecasting that GM will see a 10 percent increase over August 2005. The reason is because last August, GM's employee pricing for all promotion came to an end and the company's sales slumped.

Still, GM has momentum that Ford and Chrysler don't have, Toprak said. Its new large SUVs are selling well despite high gas prices, and it has more fuel-efficient models than its domestic rivals.

"Of all the domestic three, they appear to be the one in a little bit better position at the moment," Toprak said.

Barry, in a note to investors, predicted domestic car sales would drop 3.7 percent in August, while imports would rise 21.6 percent.

Domestic light truck sales likely will drop 8.4 percent, while import sales could rise just over 10 percent, Barry predicted.

Erich Merkle, forecasting director for IRN Inc., a Grand Rapids-based automotive consulting firm, said rising interest rates and a softening economy nationwide, especially in the housing industry, is likely to hurt truck sales and the Big Three in August.

But he said Honda should continue its growth because all of its models are selling well.

At Suburban Honda in Farmington Hills, sales are up 20 percent when compared to the first seven months of last year largely because of the Civic, said Russ Ashabranner, general manager.

On Monday, Rachel Glegola, 30, of Dearborn Heights, bought a Civic mainly for the same reasons that Shedron did. She cares far more about gas mileage and reliability than she does about styling.

"I know they're reliable. I know five, six, seven years down the road, it'll still be running," she said.



*********************************************************************************************************

I agree from experience, Hondas and Toyotas take a licking but keep on ticking...

[TheJudge]

GM is really pushing to advertise/raise awareness of their E85 Ethanol program.  They've hired consulting firms across the country to help them present their bio-fuel efforts (hey, there's even one ethanol gas station now in San Diego and 119 more planned over the next few years for construction in California!)

They're also going to be making some sort of BIG announcement next week (although I do not know what it will be about...just that there's something big going on...)

[Jack Morris]

What kills me is that refiners are supposedly getting a heck of a subsidy from the taxpayers to make these blends.

Nothing like robbing Paul from the get go for something that should NOT be subsidized anyways. Alternative fuels are a must, not an option, IMHO.

[TheJudge]

What kills me is that refiners are supposedly getting a heck of a subsidy from the taxpayers to make these blends.

Nothing like robbing Paul from the get go for something that should NOT be subsidized anyways. Alternative fuels are a must, not an option, IMHO.

What's really scary is that during conference calls...the GM folks actually sound like they WANT alternative fuels to work (then again...they just make the vehicles, not the fuel).

[J. Carney]

What kills me is that refiners are supposedly getting a heck of a subsidy from the taxpayers to make these blends.

Nothing like robbing Paul from the get go for something that should NOT be subsidized anyways. Alternative fuels are a must, not an option, IMHO.

What's really scary is that during conference calls...the GM folks actually sound like they WANT alternative fuels to work (then again...they just make the vehicles, not the fuel).

Yep.

Because people like me are going to have to switch to Ethanol or Biodiesel- people that buy trucks and SUV's for the reasons that they were intended for and HAVE to have that power and cargo space are starting to stop buying their product.

GM has to switch to keep it's moneymakers alive.

[Jack Morris]

Young's tour buses operate on biodiesel. He also owns a Hummer that has been modified to operate on alternative fuel. Said Young about the latter vehicle in the 2005 Time article, "I love it when people yell at me that about the environment... and then I tell them that I'm burning 90% cleaner than them."

That is Mr. Neil Young...

[J. Carney]

Young's tour buses operate on biodiesel. He also owns a Hummer that has been modified to operate on alternative fuel. Said Young about the latter vehicle in the 2005 Time article, "I love it when people yell at me that about the environment... and then I tell them that I'm burning 90% cleaner than them."

That is Mr. Neil Young...

And he can still burn.

And his music sucks.

Besides, Willie Nelson was running on biodiesel before pretty much anyone.

[Dracho]

I think you are going to see alternative fuels soon because:

1) The contract is the basis of all business.  Regardless of whether you think capitalism is out of control, or you're talking about mom & pop, ALL business is based on the validity and enforceability of a contract.

2) The enforcer of the contract is the government entity.  In order for business to function, there must be an assumption that a valid, legal contract will be enforced by the government entity within who's jurisdiction the contract is executed.


Too many Third World Countries have decided they can re-write contracts at a whim, and Oil Companies seem to be the primary target of those whims.  If oil companies have decided the risk of investment is no longer worth the potential payout, because their contracts can be nullified at the whim of any peasant with 3 armed goons, then they are going to explore other ways to make money.  If they cause harm to the people who robbed them by making their main export product worthless, then so much the better.


I think the geopolitical and world financial situations are begininng to favor alternative energy, rather than oppose it.

[Jack Morris]

Thank God for world corruption! 

[Dracho]

Besides, think about the other side of the coin.  Let's assume someone announces tomorrow that they have perfected a 0 emission hydrogen engine that gets 500 MPG and operates at 600 HP.  How do you think that hydrogen is going to get to market? 

In the current Gas station supply chain, that's how.  On the retail (non-refining) side, we don't care what's in the tank truck, or what the pump is spewing out. We only care that the retail product is being delivered, and people are buying it and coming inside for cokes & twinkies.

Just as GM doesn't really care what fuel the car runs on.  They're afraid of alternative fuels because there is not one standard, so the tooling costs are high if they are making cars with 5 different technologies, or the one they chose turns out to be a dead-end.  If a standard is reached (internal combustion is attractive to them in terms of standardization, not oil consumption) then they'll jump on it, if they only have to re-tool once.

[Sirgod]

I look forward to the day, I can drive around town on my Nuclear Powered Unicycle.

Stephen

[TheJudge]

Besides, think about the other side of the coin.  Let's assume someone announces tomorrow that they have perfected a 0 emission hydrogen engine that gets 500 MPG and operates at 600 HP.  How do you think that hydrogen is going to get to market? 

In the current Gas station supply chain, that's how.  On the retail (non-refining) side, we don't care what's in the tank truck, or what the pump is spewing out. We only care that the retail product is being delivered, and people are buying it and coming inside for cokes & twinkies.

Just as GM doesn't really care what fuel the car runs on.  They're afraid of alternative fuels because there is not one standard, so the tooling costs are high if they are making cars with 5 different technologies, or the one they chose turns out to be a dead-end.  If a standard is reached (internal combustion is attractive to them in terms of standardization, not oil consumption) then they'll jump on it, if they only have to re-tool once.

Delivery of the fuel to the consumer is the #1 issue in a lot of the alternative fuel experiments attempting to go mainstream.  here in california there's one E85 bio-fuel pump station.  By the end of 2007 they're hoping to have over 200, funded by the State of California, GM, and a few other companies.  We also have a series of twenty hydrogen fueling stations between Sacramento and the Bay Area (the likeliest locations in California for hydrogen-fueled cars). 

[Commander Maxillius]

Yeah, In Michigan I've seen one E85 pump.  It's about 30 miles south of Detroit on 275. 

If I owned a fuel supply business and had friends in the automotive business, I'd make sure one of my stations in Brighton, Novi, Auburn Hills, or anywhere in the city or closer to it had E85 on tap.   Somewhere with much more traffic and exposure than 275 between Detroit and Toledo.

[J. Carney]

Why, Max?

The E85 pump is in the PERFECT place... there just need to be MORE of them.

IN the end, it's gonna be guys like me that force the switch, not city drivers. THey havge too many alternate modes available. Subways, trains, buses, biking to work, etc.

It's the guy like me that has to drive 25-30 miles a day one way to work that's gonna make the changes happen. Rural areas with lower standards of living and longer drives are the moat likely places for alternative fuels to start selling- they are the places where people spend the most on gas.

[Commander Maxillius]

Why, Max?

The E85 pump is in the PERFECT place... there just need to be MORE of them.

IN the end, it's gonna be guys like me that force the switch, not city drivers. THey havge too many alternate modes available. Subways, trains, buses, biking to work, etc.

It's the guy like me that has to drive 25-30 miles a day one way to work that's gonna make the changes happen. Rural areas with lower standards of living and longer drives are the moat likely places for alternative fuels to start selling- they are the places where people spend the most on gas.

True, but suburbia is where the battle is to be won.  They have so many alternative means, but how many are either smart enough to use them or not too stubborn or proud to give up their car?

[J. Carney]

True, but suburbia is where the battle is to be won.  They have so many alternative means, but how many are either smart enough to use them or not too stubborn or proud to give up their car?

That's why you have to open the battle elsewhere.

We didn't invade Normandy first in WWII... we went where the resistance to change would be the weakest and the chance for initial success would have been greatest- Italy.

Suburbia might be where the battle is won or lost, but it's going to have to be opened ion a place where progress is more easily achieved. To do that, you gotta hit the people that are most desperate to save. Those are the rural folks- the ones that drive the farthest and pay the most per gallon for fuel.