Topic: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?  (Read 39780 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline NuclearWessels

  • Evil Dave
  • Serverkit Development Team
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1249
  • Scripter and general nuisance
    • NukeDocs
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2006, 08:48:17 pm »
Heh, while the mind is being demented ... if this was used in conjunction with the "friendly fire" option, then if you started far enough apart on the map you wouldn't know where on the map your teammates were either  -- all sorts of possibilities ;D

dave

Offline NuclearWessels

  • Evil Dave
  • Serverkit Development Team
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1249
  • Scripter and general nuisance
    • NukeDocs
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2006, 08:59:23 pm »
Don't suppose Disengagement by Sublight Evasion would also be possible?

I like these ideas.

We couldn't really get the boom/saucer seperation ideas correct, since the player would still have their "whole" ship after the mission ended.  I guess we could have the script totally nuke their aft hull, warp engines, etc to simulate it a bit.

The probability of success and modifiers for friendly/enemy ships we could handle ok

dave

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2006, 09:49:19 pm »


I like the idea.  I *love* the idea of getting rid of the map edge.   I've always hated that artificial map edge.

What I'd really like to see, is a "disengage button" (or a reasonable facsimile).   What it would do is force your speed to max, and leave you at max speed with lowered shields for one turn after you accelerated to max speed.   If you were still capable of meeting the disengagement by acceleration rules at the end of that turn, then you'd go to high warp (100 or so) and have to fly off the map. 

This follows the SFB rules except for the lowering of shields part.   (I made that up.)  However, disengagement is awfully easy in SFB, and I'd think that in a computer game you'd want a little better chance of killing people.  Getting in that last phaser shot that drops them below warp threshold while they are trying to rev up the engines would be *priceless*.

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2006, 10:21:52 pm »


I like the idea.  I *love* the idea of getting rid of the map edge.   I've always hated that artificial map edge.

What I'd really like to see, is a "disengage button" (or a reasonable facsimile).   What it would do is force your speed to max, and leave you at max speed with lowered shields for one turn after you accelerated to max speed.   If you were still capable of meeting the disengagement by acceleration rules at the end of that turn, then you'd go to high warp (100 or so) and have to fly off the map. 

This follows the SFB rules except for the lowering of shields part.   (I made that up.)  However, disengagement is awfully easy in SFB, and I'd think that in a computer game you'd want a little better chance of killing people.  Getting in that last phaser shot that drops them below warp threshold while they are trying to rev up the engines would be *priceless*.

-S'Cipio

And yet another massive advantage for the Proxy photon you Federation lackey.
(does lackey have an "e" ?)
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2006, 10:25:45 pm »
Oh, and would it be PVP ? ie can it be kept from AI missions where you have to spend time looking for your opponent?
(Or at least could the AI missions be restricited to Kzin)

For AI missions they'd have to be set up within sensor range ... well, that or you just sit still and wait til the AI comes to you, since the AI always magically knows exactly where you are, even when you're way the hell out of sensor range.

dave


That brings up a semi interesting observation.....

The last game I played where the AI enemy actually didnt know where you were, and had to find you was *drum roll please*

Red Storm Rising...C64....

Being able to shake an alpha off yer tale and then sill set him up again was....priceless...

(then again...I havent tried any of the current generation of sub sims)

That game was awesome!!!  i'd play it now if I could get it on a moderm format
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


762_XC

  • Guest
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2006, 12:08:47 am »
Will this make it easier or harder for Dizzy to kill n00bs?

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2006, 12:21:58 am »


I like the idea.  I *love* the idea of getting rid of the map edge.   I've always hated that artificial map edge.

What I'd really like to see, is a "disengage button" (or a reasonable facsimile).   What it would do is force your speed to max, and leave you at max speed with lowered shields for one turn after you accelerated to max speed.   If you were still capable of meeting the disengagement by acceleration rules at the end of that turn, then you'd go to high warp (100 or so) and have to fly off the map. 

This follows the SFB rules except for the lowering of shields part.   (I made that up.)  However, disengagement is awfully easy in SFB, and I'd think that in a computer game you'd want a little better chance of killing people.  Getting in that last phaser shot that drops them below warp threshold while they are trying to rev up the engines would be *priceless*.

-S'Cipio

And yet another massive advantage for the Proxy photon you Federation lackey.
(does lackey have an "e" ?)

Not to worry.   I'm sure you'd be running long before one more proxy would make a difference.     :P

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline CaptJosh

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 775
  • Gender: Male
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2006, 01:39:53 am »
Oh, and would it be PVP ? ie can it be kept from AI missions where you have to spend time looking for your opponent?
(Or at least could the AI missions be restricited to Kzin)

For AI missions they'd have to be set up within sensor range ... well, that or you just sit still and wait til the AI comes to you, since the AI always magically knows exactly where you are, even when you're way the hell out of sensor range.

dave


That brings up a semi interesting observation.....

The last game I played where the AI enemy actually didnt know where you were, and had to find you was *drum roll please*

Red Storm Rising...C64....

Being able to shake an alpha off yer tale and then sill set him up again was....priceless...

(then again...I havent tried any of the current generation of sub sims)

That's Alfa, not alpha.
CaptJosh

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2006, 04:20:05 am »
Heh, while the mind is being demented ... if this was used in conjunction with the "friendly fire" option, then if you started far enough apart on the map you wouldn't know where on the map your teammates were either  -- all sorts of possibilities ;D

dave


That'd kinda suck... The time it takes to get a match started shouldnt be much more than 2 minutes. That's probably a 100k starting distance between sides.

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2006, 04:22:11 am »
Will this make it easier or harder for Dizzy to kill n00bs?

On one had, dying makes you learn faster than running whitch only teaches the art of how to run rather than fight which then leads to more running. So anything that helps a noob get away is bad imo.

Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

  • "Sorry I haven't been around much lately. I'm easily distracted by shiney things."
  • XenoCorp® Member
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9558
  • Gender: Male
  • Virtute non verbis
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2006, 09:17:13 am »
And yet another massive advantage for the Proxy photon you Federation lackey.
(does lackey have an "e" ?)

I didn't know he was installing retro-grade movement also.....

Or was there some other way to get photons to fire behind you?
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

A tax code should exist to procure the funds necessary for the operation of government, not to manipulate human or business behavior.

A nocens dies in loricatus est melior quam a bonus dies procul opus.

A bad peace is even worse than war."  --  Tacitus

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it" -Claude Castonguay

Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

  • "Sorry I haven't been around much lately. I'm easily distracted by shiney things."
  • XenoCorp® Member
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9558
  • Gender: Male
  • Virtute non verbis
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2006, 09:18:10 am »
Will this make it easier or harder for Dizzy to kill n00bs?

On one had, dying makes you learn faster than running whitch only teaches the art of how to run rather than fight which then leads to more running. So anything that helps a noob get away is bad imo.

Not too mention, it takes away from your inflated kill ratio.... ;)
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

A tax code should exist to procure the funds necessary for the operation of government, not to manipulate human or business behavior.

A nocens dies in loricatus est melior quam a bonus dies procul opus.

A bad peace is even worse than war."  --  Tacitus

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it" -Claude Castonguay

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2006, 10:16:55 am »
Will this make it easier or harder for Dizzy to kill n00bs?

On one had, dying makes you learn faster than running whitch only teaches the art of how to run rather than fight which then leads to more running. So anything that helps a noob get away is bad imo.

Not too mention, it takes away from your inflated kill ratio.... ;)

Everyone needs to pad their kill ratio.  ;D

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2006, 10:19:21 am »
I didn't know he was installing retro-grade movement also.....

Or was there some other way to get photons to fire behind you?

NCM!

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2006, 10:41:09 am »
I didn't know he was installing retro-grade movement also.....

Or was there some other way to get photons to fire behind you?

NCM!

Just ask J'inn   ;D

hard it it to make a backwards ship model?   (I'm thinking again . . .)
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

  • "Sorry I haven't been around much lately. I'm easily distracted by shiney things."
  • XenoCorp® Member
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9558
  • Gender: Male
  • Virtute non verbis
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2006, 10:42:34 am »
I didn't know he was installing retro-grade movement also.....

Or was there some other way to get photons to fire behind you?

NCM!

What was that? 

I didn't quite hear you....

Did you say 'death-trap'?

Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

A tax code should exist to procure the funds necessary for the operation of government, not to manipulate human or business behavior.

A nocens dies in loricatus est melior quam a bonus dies procul opus.

A bad peace is even worse than war."  --  Tacitus

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it" -Claude Castonguay

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2006, 10:50:42 am »

Did you say 'death-trap'?



Like J'inn to a rock :)
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline KBFLordKrueg

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3733
  • KBF CO
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2006, 03:36:25 pm »
I think this would be worth trying at least.
Not a bad idea at all... ;D
Lord Krueg
KBF CO
We are the Dead

Offline NuclearWessels

  • Evil Dave
  • Serverkit Development Team
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1249
  • Scripter and general nuisance
    • NukeDocs
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2006, 03:45:57 pm »
LOL - OK guys, here are a couple of prototype scripts to play with (Met_ED5FleetWarp.scr and Met_ED5PlayerWarp.scr) along with a single-player campaign file if you want to check them out in SP as a Klinky.

http://www3.telus.net/NuclearWessels/sfc/downloads/EDWarpPatrols.exe


Here's how things work:

The Map

 - The map is roughly 2500x2500, so takes about 40 minutes to cross at speed 31 with game speed at 8.
(Note the warp 7 feature below lets you cross the map in about 4 minutes.)

 - Players start out roughly in the center of the map, with a LOT of empty space around them.

 - Closer to the sides of the map, you'll find various randomly generated terrain features, including a sun in one area, planets and a moon in another, an asteroid field in another,  with each of these areas seperated by a LOT of empty space.

Disengagement

 - At the moment disengagement is just by map edge, but the warp options included makes it nearly equivalent to disengagement by acceleration (see below).

Warp Options

You can travel around the map at regular combat speeds (up to 31), or at non-combat speeds of warp 5 (speed 125) or warp 7 (speed 343).  (IIRC, the SFB/Warp speed conversions were warp N = speed N3.)

For this "proof of concept" mission, I'm using green/yellow/red alert to switch you between warp 7, 5, and regular combat speeds.

 - If you're travelling at speed 27 or higher, hit yellow alert to jump to warp 5 (spd 125). 
It will take roughly a turn to make the jump, so you'll be travelling at yellow alert at speed 27 for 30 seconds or so before the jump kicks in.

 - Once you've made the jump to warp 5, you can make the jump to warp 7 (spd 343) by going to green alert. 
Once again, it will take roughly 30 seconds to kick in, during which time you'll be flying without shields.

NOTE: your ship will turn like a pig at warp 7, so make sure you pick an appropriate view to give you a good look in front of you before you jump -- asteroids, suns etc are visible even at a distance of 2500 if you're in F2 or whatever, but the overhead view won't zoom out far enough to see them!

 - To drop down in speed, hit yellow alert (to drop from 7 to 5) or red alert (to drop to combat speeds). 
Dropping speed shouldn't take more than a couple of seconds.

Disclaimer

I'm not at all sure how practical the warping will turn out to be in terms of gameplay, but have a play with it and see what you think! 

If we want to use the higher warps for disengagement only, then I can simply chop out the bits that let you drop back down to combat speeds, so once you jump to warp you're on you're way off the map.

At the moment, you have to be able to hit and maintain warp 3 (spd 27) to jump to higher warp speeds.  This means slower ships (e.g. the R-WE) are unable to use the warp features.  It also means that if your engines have taken more than a few hits then your ship probably can't either.  We may want a better system, but this was an easy one to put together for the prototype scripts.

Needless to say, all the numbers (delay times, travel speeds, etc) are pretty arbitrary, so feel free to suggest something that makes more sense!

dave
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 05:34:01 pm by NuclearWessels »

Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

  • "Sorry I haven't been around much lately. I'm easily distracted by shiney things."
  • XenoCorp® Member
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9558
  • Gender: Male
  • Virtute non verbis
Re: Big maps and SFB style disengagement rules?
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2006, 03:53:46 pm »
OMG, you rock, Dave!!!
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

A tax code should exist to procure the funds necessary for the operation of government, not to manipulate human or business behavior.

A nocens dies in loricatus est melior quam a bonus dies procul opus.

A bad peace is even worse than war."  --  Tacitus

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it" -Claude Castonguay