Topic: DNLs: Besides the Fed, which ones are OTT?

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Heck while were complaining about  battle cruisers i have a couple the c7 needs another add we could also use a drone varient of the ship like the feds and then how about something with more power and heavy weapons like the BCE.While were at it the  newer classes of D7 could use better dizzy arcs say something like Dizzy gave us on  past servers fh i think it was.this is all toungh in cheek of course but sisnce someone has seen fit to make a suggestion to make a ship more competitive i thought i throw these out.
 It would be nice to see these things and a working klink DXDm been waiting for that one for a while( over a year iirc)
 Kurok

*snicker*

Just as long as I get my extra PhG's to deal with the extra drone racks your carriers will be getting....

While we are at it, can the Hydrans have 100% of their fighters while everyone else retains the 2/3's rule?

Race whoring at it finest...

[Grim]

Myself, SkullnBones, Dogmatix, Kzinbane, Max Power, Drall, Renegade, Pharoah, Fluf, S'cipio (I believe) couldn't do the job right before, but now it's all going to come together seamlessly right?   LOL

No, you couldn't.  That list sucked @ss.  Does a Novahawk really need Plasma-D and MORE Phasers? 

THe SGO/DH123 lists may be cheesy, but the cheese is more even.   The nice part about "even" cheese is it can be reduced accross the races without singling anyone out.  If BCHs with 4 PFs are OTT, and admin can remove them across the board as even races has one.

As and admin, remove what you don't like.  As a mod-modder (it's Firesoul's mod, we just screw around with it) I'd rather leave the stuff in so an admin has more colors to paint with.

So now it's you and Dizzy who decide what's cheese and what isn't? Forgive me for being a bit skeptical. BTW: maybe you got your arse kicked while flying a BCT, but I found it the perfect compromise BCH for Feds. Guess that makes it unacceptable. Afterall, we can't allow a decent Fed battlecruiser, can we?

Just out of curiousity... is it possible for you to actually make a post that doesn't end up making you look
like some kinda paranoid lunatic?

How is he acting like a 'paranoid lunatic'? He raises a valid point, that its difficult to define so called cheese as each person has their own interpretations of what a cheesey ship actually is. If you read this thread there are posts by some people who have stated what their opinion of what 'Cheese' is, and then when someone voices an opinion disagreeing with that, they get shot down.

Once again we see this strive for balance, in a game that isnt supposed to be fully balanced. Whatever changes you make you are bound to piss someone off or some race will take a major hit in their shiplist in order to try and create this balance. I don't see how you can succeed.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Here's what I want, in case it didn't come to you before now: the original F-DNH, not DH's neutered one, a BCG with 12 drone control(if we can fool around with Klink carriers that aren't SFB originals, we can fix this oversight), and leave the damn DNL alone. If this is too dense for them to wrap their heads around, fine, I'll pass on future SGO servers.

See?
All better- you got the important stuff out before you kicked into mini-rant mode.

Now- for anyone who can- what's the dif between the original Fed-DNH and the one DH designed.
(Actually of course FS ported it I believe, but he's not around anymore so it's more fun to blame DH..)

G-racks compromise. 

Original F-DNH has 6 AMD 6.

DH's F-DNH has 2 AMD 12.

Drone control dropped from 12 (Taldren's doing) to 6 (SFB standard)

[Dizzy]

I'll tell you right off, the FDNH is the ONLY ship without nerfed G racks that has 3 or more in the list. This was a fix a long time ago coming and we still havent decided how the FDNH should be configured to pare it down from its uberness throne. DH's proposal for losing a single ADD12 is very fair, more so than what my fix would be. Who knows, mb it wont get touched.

The BCG will NEVER get a 12 drone ctrl on one of my servers. Are you insane? Where did you dream this up? You're just going to have to time your scatter packs better.

The DNL... It's OTT, and I prefer to push it's FYA back a bit for obvious reasons. Looking at the armament and power curve it's as to the FDN's as a CX is to a CA. It's simply too powerful for it's time. Nothing about it needs to be nerfed imo.

[KBF-Kurok]

LOL at bear

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Here's what I want, in case it didn't come to you before now: the original F-DNH, not DH's neutered one, a BCG with 12 drone control(if we can fool around with Klink carriers that aren't SFB originals, we can fix this oversight), and leave the damn DNL alone. If this is too dense for them to wrap their heads around, fine, I'll pass on future SGO servers.

I will agree that it is kind of ridiculous that a 'Guided Missile Battle Crusier' can't have more than 6 drones in the air at a time.

But from my limited SFB experience, it only had 6 DC.... but it usually had a fleet mate to transfer drone control to... we can't do that here.

Personally, I think it should be raised to 10, so it can have 2 loads in the air or a SP + 1 load in the air....

I think that would balance it out.

Of course, I just help testing... I don't make the decisions....

[Dizzy]

G-racks compromise. 

Original F-DNH has 6 AMD 6.

DH's F-DNH has 2 AMD 12.

Drone control dropped from 12 (Taldren's doing) to 6 (SFB standard)

Original FDNH in the past lists have 3 ADD12's not 6x ADD6. DH's mod is 2 ADD12. Not too much a nerfing imo.

DC on the FDNH has varied on past servers from 6 to 12. It needs to be 6.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

LOL at bear

Hey!!!

I'm serious about the 100% fighter thing...

[Hexx]

How is he acting like a 'paranoid lunatic'? He raises a valid point, that its difficult to define so called cheese as each person has their own interpretations of what a cheesey ship actually is. If you read this thread there are posts by some people who have stated what their opinion of what 'Cheese' is, and then when someone voices an opinion disagreeing with that, they get shot down.

Well "whiny bastard" is already reserved for t00l.
"stupid <expletive deleted>" is DH's moniker.
paranoid lunatic seemed to fit somehow.

And no- no offence to Ted, but hadn't raised a valid point.
He jumped into teh conversation ranting about DH being anti-Fed, which honestly given the cheeseypoof ships
for the Feds that DH & Dizzy have let into the list is absurd.

All I ever asked for was what exactly he wanted to see added/changed.
ie something to work with rather than accusations.

Of course anything changed screws something else over, the only question is does it screw someone over less than it balances the
origianl reason for the change.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

G-racks compromise. 

Original F-DNH has 6 AMD 6.

DH's F-DNH has 2 AMD 12.

Drone control dropped from 12 (Taldren's doing) to 6 (SFB standard)

Original FDNH in the past lists have 3 ADD12's not 6x ADD6. DH's mod is 2 ADD12. Not too much a nerfing imo.

DC on the FDNH has varied on past servers from 6 to 12. It needs to be 6.

Sorry, maybe that was one of the compromises that was proposed at one point then....

As for the DC 6, I have no problem with it.  Again though, as with the F-BCG, it is supposed to have ships to transfer drone control too...

BUT, as I told DH the other day, I think the casual pf tenders need to have an increase of 2 or 4 DC to compensate for the lack of DC on the PF's.

[Dizzy]

D7 could use better dizzy arcs say something like Dizzy gave us on  past servers fh i think it was.this is all toungh in cheek of course but sisnce someone has seen fit to make a suggestion to make a ship more competitive i thought i throw these out.
 Kurok

Yeah, I remember giving the D7W FHR/L arcs. In 75 when all the D5's have it, then the DWL's and then the C7's... just makes the D7W a dog. Oh well, it supposed to be a dog.   Bottom line is when something sucks and no one is complaining about it, why bother enhancing it when there are better ships to fly? I see no good reason to mess with a lot of things that could be messed with that I really would like to mess with.

[Dizzy]

I think the casual pf tenders need to have an increase of 2 or 4 DC to compensate for the lack of DC on the PF's.

Explain please. Im lost.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

F-DNHf & F-BCGf both have DC 6.

F-PF has 2 drone racks and is supposed to have the DC for 2 or 4 drones (not sure, ask DH for the details on that).

But, b/c of the mechanics of the game, any drones launched by the pf's are counted against the mothership's DC.

So where it should be able to have at least 10 drones in the air (6 from ship, 2 from each pf) it can only have 6.

40% reduction in drone throw and don't say to time it b/c you can not effectively do that with pf's like you can from the fleet panel.

[Dizzy]

Ahhh, so DC for PF's is determined by the DC of the mothership? That'd be a problem for the BCG then. Are you sure that's how it works? Been so long since I've flown one.

[KBF-Kurok]

umm the reason to put them on the D7w if not the others is because it can take more damage than the D5w and makes it more comtetitive with the other line ships. The D5w having less hull and beeing able to take less damage put it at a great disadvantage  with the ships they are fighting. But like i said it was all toungh in cheek so i realy didn't expect to see it again. As for the BCG getting more drone control im for it if the klingons can fly squads with out penalties, after all if you check your sfb material youll see thats the way they were designed to fight  in groups of three. hence the need for only one amd on the c7  because it had other ships there to help it fend off drones also why earlier klingons had weaker back shields becaues they had some one to pounce on an enemy ship if they tried to move in for a shot.
 As you can see there are sacrifices by all races  in this game from sfb. Giving them more than 6 drone control on that ship basicaly gives them a mirak BC.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Play test it and you will see.....

I first noticed it flying the F-NHP (Fed heavy full tender) when started to launched my second wave of drones from the pf's and started seeing the 'loss of drone' notice when I went over 12 drones.

[FPF-DieHard]

Ahhh, so DC for PF's is determined by the DC of the mothership? That'd be a problem for the BCG then. Are you sure that's how it works? Been so long since I've flown one.

Correct, PFs steal drone control channels from the Mothership.   I advise AGAINST changing this for anyone, time your waves, it builds character.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Giving them more than 6 drone control on that ship basicaly gives them a mirak BC.

By 'them' I assume you mean either the F-DNH or F-BCG.

If the F-DNH, no problem, but I would like to know why you consider that number to be more than DC 6 for the F-BCG?

Would you consider a DC of 10 or 8 be OTT for the F-BCG? (imo, DC 10 is just right)

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

  I advise AGAINST changing this for anyone, time your waves, it builds character.

Easy to do when you are at range... but not possible when you are engaged with lots of other expendable units on the board as in the last campaign.

(ie getting a mission with 4 enemy AI and ALL of them were casual or full tenders or carriers)

[Dizzy]

Are the fed BCGf and BCFf the only casual BC's that have DV of 6? And that reminds me the FBCEf needs a 6 DC. Gonna ck to see if it has it.