Topic: DNLs: Besides the Fed, which ones are OTT?

[FPF-DieHard]

Please explain what gives you a advantage in a BCG vs C7 fight.

I pilot who can read and count past 5 

[Dfly]

Please explain what gives you a advantage in a BCG vs C7 fight.

I pilot who can read and count past 5 

Just can't type 

[Father Ted]

BCG is mediocre at best. 

I have NEVER lost a BCG to a C7 captain in all the years I've been playing this game. C7 Captains are too used to flying against that BCF cheese boat to know what a real ship can do.

Please explain what gives you a advantage in a BCG vs C7 fight.

the Klingons have a better BCH, the Feds a better Heavy Dread.  It's the circle of life . . .

I'm sure hexx can provide you with an itemized list of ships the balance tips slightly in the Fed's favor

Can't allow that! We need to fix the the Fed DN's so it's more fair. And if you can radically alter the C8V to make it more competitive, even though it goes against SFB, falling back on SSD's to justify not fixing the BCG is a rather hollow excuse.

[Dfly]

BCG is mediocre at best. 

I have NEVER lost a BCG to a C7 captain in all the years I've been playing this game. C7 Captains are too used to flying against that BCF cheese boat to know what a real ship can do.

Please explain what gives you a advantage in a BCG vs C7 fight.

the Klingons have a better BCH, the Feds a better Heavy Dread.  It's the circle of life . . .

I'm sure hexx can provide you with an itemized list of ships the balance tips slightly in the Fed's favor

Can't allow that! We need to fix the the Fed DN's so it's more fair. And if you can radically alter the C8V to make it more competitive, even though it goes against SFB, falling back on SSD's to justify not fixing the BCG is a rather hollow excuse.

So you want us to dummy down the Fed DN instead of upping the C8V?

[Hexx]

BCG is mediocre at best. 

I have NEVER lost a BCG to a C7 captain in all the years I've been playing this game. C7 Captains are too used to flying against that BCF cheese boat to know what a real ship can do.

Please explain what gives you a advantage in a BCG vs C7 fight.

the Klingons have a better BCH, the Feds a better Heavy Dread.  It's the circle of life . . .

I'm sure hexx can provide you with an itemized list of ships the balance tips slightly in the Fed's favor

Can't allow that! We need to fix the the Fed DN's so it's more fair. And if you can radically alter the C8V to make it more competitive, even though it goes against SFB, falling back on SSD's to justify not fixing the BCG is a rather hollow excuse.

So you want us to dummy down the Fed DN instead of upping the C8V?

I still don't actually think Ted's mentioned what the issue is, other than
"DH is a bastard (true enough) neutered DNH blah blah BCG"

I know we're not best buds Ted, but it's Ok to share your feelings on what exactly is bothering you rather than just lashing out.

[Father Ted]

That's basically what's happening. The Fed DN's have been dumbed down while Klink carriers have gotten a booster seat. Now that I ask for a very minimal payback in giving the BCG 12 drone control, I'm treated like a leper who crashed the shiplist lovefest. Screwing with the F-DNL is the final straw. One can take only so many insults...

[Hexx]

That's basically what's happening. The Fed DN's have been dumbed down while Klink carriers have gotten a booster seat. Now that I ask for a very minimal payback in giving the BCG 12 drone control, I'm treated like a leper who crashed the shiplist lovefest. Screwing with the F-DNL is the final straw. One can take only so many insults...

Well.. objectively a DNL that is superior to pretty much every other DN until the DNH's arrive is probably a little more powerful than it should be.
And I believe ADB themselves have said thet Fed ships tend to be a bit better because they're what sell the game. (the Feds that is)
(- really kind ot, the man is amazingly blunt about why he does stuff, some of his forum replies are just cool. )

Anyway, I (personally) don't think a BCG with 12 control would be incredibly OTT, maybe it can be thrown in the next playtest.
Or set up a server with an admin that has the ships the way you want.

As for the insults, actually one can take quite a few of them...but then again I am pretty much better than the lot of you so..

[Father Ted]

BCG is mediocre at best. 

I have NEVER lost a BCG to a C7 captain in all the years I've been playing this game. C7 Captains are too used to flying against that BCF cheese boat to know what a real ship can do.

Please explain what gives you a advantage in a BCG vs C7 fight.

the Klingons have a better BCH, the Feds a better Heavy Dread.  It's the circle of life . . .

I'm sure hexx can provide you with an itemized list of ships the balance tips slightly in the Fed's favor

Can't allow that! We need to fix the the Fed DN's so it's more fair. And if you can radically alter the C8V to make it more competitive, even though it goes against SFB, falling back on SSD's to justify not fixing the BCG is a rather hollow excuse.

So you want us to dummy down the Fed DN instead of upping the C8V?

I still don't actually think Ted's mentioned what the issue is, other than
"DH is a bastard (true enough) neutered DNH blah blah BCG"

I know we're not best buds Ted, but it's Ok to share your feelings on what exactly is bothering you rather than just lashing out.

First of all, I doubt you ever won a match against a C7 in a BCG in PvP. That being said, I'm sick of the Feds having to make sacrifices for the good of the D2 community. We''ve sacrificed on Klink carriers, droners, Rom ships with D-Racks, and now we're being told that one of the few ships we still enjoy flying is OTT. It's gotten to the point I don't want to fly on a server run by Ditzy and DH because they seem hellbent on taking the fun out of flying Fed.

[Hexx]

Actually I have, at least 2x.
Mainly because I didn't do the "nancy-boy" proxy dance, closed with both to OL range and killed them.
Not saying I beat madelf here or something.

Second- are you actually saying the fun of flying Fed is having a DNL that thrashes any other piece of metal
until teh DNH's?
Or having a DNH that is immune for all intents and purposes to drones?

Because if it is, you should talk to Dizzy- he's got some killer Andro ships on his last servers.
Maybe you could volunteer to fly one of those.

If not, then maybe actually present your case, no offence - but you've now made 4 or 5 posts in this topic
and none really have set out what you'd like to see.
"DH screwed the Feds" isn't really helpful for seeing your point.
(and kinda laughable with his inclusion of those stupid CS's.. but anyway)

[FPF-DieHard]

First of all, I doubt you ever won a match against a C7 in a BCG in PvP. That being said, I'm sick of the Feds having to make sacrifices for the good of the D2 community. We''ve sacrificed on Klink carriers, droners, Rom ships with D-Racks, and now we're being told that one of the few ships we still enjoy flying is OTT. It's gotten to the point I don't want to fly on a server run by Ditzy and DH because they seem hellbent on taking the fun out of flying Fed.

This is priceless, the 2 Fed players with the most FEDERATION-flown kills on the last server are out to screw the Feds 

What is in that alter-wine anyway?

PS:  Real Roms fly hawks anyway 
   

[Hexx]

Oddly enough you both needed the DNL's to make those kills....

[FPF-DieHard]

Oddly enough you both needed the DNL's to make those kills....

Please, I just needed my Cheeasy A10s

[Hexx]

Oddly enough you both needed the DNL's to make those kills....

Please, I just needed my Cheeasy A10s

DVL then ... 

[FPF-DieHard]

Oddly enough you both needed the DNL's to make those kills....

Please, I just needed my Cheeasy A10s

DVL then ... 

Never flew it

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

If you're going to water down the Fed DNL, then beef up theF-DN. According to my SFC manual, the Fed DN had 50% less fire power than everyone elses 1st fielded DN. Balance for balance...

[FPF-DieHard]

If you're going to water down the Fed DNL, then beef up theF-DN. According to my SFC manual, the Fed DN had 50% less fire power than everyone elses 1st fielded DN. Balance for balance...

The only thing that would be touched is the FYA, that's about it

[762_XC]

Good lord, you Feds have it easy. 

Try some Hydran dreads! 

[Dizzy]

FT, I prefer the BCG over the BCF in a C7 fight. It's how I use my drones... Ask any of the Klinks, I'll bet they remember me flying BCG's more than BCF's. Ask Krueg, hehe. The BCF's power curve ruins my proxie game. And there's something special I do with all those extra drones.

Upping the DC to 12 will just disadvantage the C7 even more imo. I'm sure you look at it differently.

On a seperate note, I do think the FDVL annd FDNL need a later FYA. I wouldnt nerf them, but I'd give the DVL a CVA classification for fleeting purposes. That ship is a monster. I wonder if the FDN/+ has a 2 shuttle launch rate. That'd be the only tweak I'd make to them.

[Capt Jeff]

The F-BCT/+ I designed for AOTK was the most balanced Fed BCH's ever !!!!

AS for the DVL....scrap it.   If you want to promote line ship use, why is there so many cheesy carriers/PFTs being added to the list?   I'd prefer to stick with CVS/BCV/CVA only for carriers.  Nuke the rest, especially the Silly interdiction carriers or whatever they are called.   Cheese soup with extra cheese on top there.

F-DN?  Scrap it as well.  What a worthless pile.

[Dizzy]

Nah, the FDN give it a 2 launch rate. It could do something against the roms. Oh wait, they are allied. Hrmmm.

I'd keep patrol carriers. I'm fine with you scrapping the Interdiction carriers, but Crim wont like it. I say use my fleeting rules. It's a good way to keep everything in and balanced.