Topic: Best idea ever to promote line ship use

[Lepton]

Since no one responded in other thread, I thought I best create my own thread.

My proposal gives line ships a strategic role to play and sets up a system wherein line ship use is not only encouraged but desirable within a strategic and PvP context.  Line ships to be exempt from the disengagement rule and by extension of course the hex ban when in mission with any human piloting a non-line ship.  Line ships subject to disengagement rule/hex ban when opposing players are all in line ships.  Non-line ship always subject to disengagement rule and hex ban.

This means line ships can be a strategic assest to flip hexes and a venue for meaningful PvP battles.  It also introduces a whole new strategic fold.  Consider scenarios wherein line ships encounter heavy metal and the possibilities that opens up for the line ship players.  Consider what happens when line and non-line ships wing together and encounter either line or non-line ships.  It alters the whole dynamic of how we might do things on the dyna and encourages people to utilize dfferent types of ships for strategic and PvP purposes.

[762_XC]

What about mixed fleets containing line ships?

[Lepton]

It's very simple.  The rule is evaluated from the individual ship's POV.  Example: A: 1 line vs B: 1 line and 1 non-line.  A is not subject to disengagement rule and hex ban as he is faced by a non-line ship.  The exemption for line ships always takes precedence as otherwise it would not be much of an exemption.  B line ship is subject to disengagement and hex ban as he is faced by a line ship and any non-line is always subject to disengagement rule/hex ban.  The beauty of this is that A could stick around and try to destroy or injure one of the ships at little threat to itself because if A is eventually run off or destroyed he can come right back into that same hex.  To force A out of the hex, the opposing side would have to raise a line ship force to push A out of the hex.

[FPF-DieHard]

this is cool to, but I wouldn't count COMMAND ships as Line for this purpose.

NCA fights are cool 

[762_XC]

I would say fleeting with anything should void the exemption.

I would also say if you are forced out by another solo line ship (not metal), the penalty stil applies.

The end result of this will be lots of 1v1's in line ships.

Command ships should count as line. CCH's and NCC's can all compete on more or less even ground.

[KBF MalaK]

So how does this address PVP points ?? If 1 line and 1 spec ship face 2 line ships- they pay if they disengage with a time limit ban out of the hex. But truthfully I'd rather take my chances with a specialty ship wing (especially if it's heavy metal).

Where's the incentive NOT to disengage if your in a line ship and overmatched by a spec ship ??

[Lepton]

The incentive not to disengage is:

1.  You'd prefer not to give up the DV shift
2.  If you die, it is no big deal as line ships are relatively cheap and you are not banned from that hex if you do die.  It allows the PvPer in the line ship to be alot more free as the consequences are not as great for him as for the non-line ship.

[Lepton]

I would say fleeting with anything should void the exemption.

I would also say if you are forced out by another solo line ship (not metal), the penalty stil applies.

The end result of this will be lots of 1v1's in line ships.

Command ships should count as line. CCH's and NCC's can all compete on more or less even ground.

This defeats the entire strategic use of line ships and does not encourage fleets of line ships to engage fleets of line ships which is part of the reason for having the rule in the first place in my opinion.  With line ships having the exemption as I have laid it out, it creates a situation in which pilots of the opposing side will have to fly line ships to bump line ships out of the hex.  The rules are designed to give line ships a bit of an advantage so that people would like to fly them and creates a mechanism which will require other folks to fly line ships to deal with them effectively.  I don't think we want alot of 1v1s in line ships.  We would like them to be a viable alternative.  I think these rules make that more possible.

And before anyone cries foul, we already have a system that forces people into a particular set of ships, that being the use of heavy metal.  When the opposition brings on the metal, one is nearly obliged to do the same.  What I propose is a gentler requirement that will actually add a level of strategic complexity to a server as well as provide vets and newbies an unique flying opportunity.  Just as now one must run to get the metal, one will have to run to get the line ships to combat the line ships effectively.

[Green]

Just need to define line ship for each race (not all line ships are equal).

[Lepton]

I'd like to leave that up to those who would know better than I on how to define a line ship.  My first inclination would be a standard class ship up to a CA or NCA.  Some would like to include CCs and CCHs.  I don't have a problem with that.  The idea is to give an incentive to fly these ships by giving them a special ability and an unique strategic role and a mechanism that encourages others to fly them as well.

[FPF-DieHard]

The existance of the ISC kinda screws this up to, maybe it would work for another GWish server

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Command ships are specialty ships, they should be treated as such.  Just because one player prefers an command variant to a carier or droner doesn't mean they deserve any preferential treatment.  It just means they are only willing to suck it up as far as others are doing the sucking.  Kzin line ships are totally atrocious so I'm looking for an advantage here.

[Lepton]

Chutt, can you tell me what you would consider a kzin line ship?  I am not familiar with their ships to any degree.

DH, I would agree with that except if there is a bpv limit enforced in the line ship specification which I would suggest is a good idea.

[Hexx]

Given that command ships in (some) lines numbered about every third ship (depending on squadron setup) I hardly think they
can be considered "specialty" in teh same way that droners/maulers (assigned for specific missions) or carriers (assigned escort and groups)
or fast cruisers (built in extremely limited numbers and usually assigned independent missions) could be.

Yeah I'd rather fly a CWLP than a CWP
Command ships also unarguably balance up better across 20+ years and 7 races than the "lines"

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chutt, can you tell me what you would consider a kzin line ship?  I am not familiar with their ships to any degree.

DH, I would agree with that except if there is a bpv limit enforced in the line ship specification which I would suggest is a good idea.

Lines ships would be the Z-CL, Z-CS, Z-CA, Z-DD, Z-FF, Z-FFK, Z-FH, Z-POL Z-DN Z-DW, Z-CM, Z-HDW1, Z-HDW2, Z-HDW3, Z-NCA, Z-BC, Z-BCH, Z-DNW, Z-DNM, Z-DNL   and all their "+", "R" and mirv refits/variants.  Casual carriers and casual PF tenders would not be line in my opinion.  The only one I think that I'm uncertain about here is the DNL, which could be considered a light dreadnaught like a Z-CL is a light cruiser, but which could also be considered a "fast dreadnaught"  I could live with its classification as either and i put as a "fast dreadnaught" then it is no longer line.

Of all those ships the only ones i generally fly to any significant degree are Z-DD, and the Z-DNL.  The HDW1 is also very good but I generally fly the HDWC1 instead for the extra 2 fighters.

[762_XC]

So you're saying that Z-HDW1 (a bona fide 6-rack droner which can hold a lvl 4 (!!!) trac at speed 31) is a line ship, and Z-CC is not?

Pass me some of that nip please. 

Regarding command ships being line, by the end of the GW, CCH's are the de facto heavy cruisers, and the F&E production schedule even allows for their unlimited substitution.

[Hexx]

BCH's replaced CC's and DN's are pretty much the biggest "Command ships"
DNL's are (as you suggest) Fast-DN's as opposed to lighter DNs

[762_XC]

BCH's did NOT replace CC's. No race could build more than one a year.

[FPF-DieHard]

BCH's did NOT replace CC's. No race could build more than one a year.

BCHs were built in place of Dreads, not CCs. 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

So you're saying that Z-HDW1 (a bona fide 6-rack droner which can hold a lvl 4 (!!!) trac at speed 31) is a line ship, and Z-CC is not?

Pass me some of that nip please. 

Z-CC released 2247

Z-HDW1 released 2282

35 years of technology make alot of difference.  The Bismarc was a wonder for its time, but wouldn't have been so hot in 1976