Topic: Idea for SSIII (almost certainly will start a flame war . . .)

[FPF-DieHard]

There has been some concer about allying the Klingons with the Kzinti (okay, some whining from t00l) because it puts all the fast-misions droners on one side.   Since SS2 had slightly different racial alliances than SS1, why not flip another race?

Swap the Kzinti for the Feds.   F-K-G-L versus H-Z-R-I.

Flame away   

[KBF-Crim]

 

[KBF MalaK]

There has been some concer about allying the Klingons with the Kzinti (okay, some whining from t00l) because it puts all the fast-misions droners on one side.   Since SS2 had slightly different racial alliances than SS1, why not flip another race?

Swap the Kzinti for the Feds.   F-K-G-L versus H-Z-R-I.

Flame away   

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

I don't see an issue....

Other than putting the two largest player groups we have left on the same side...

[Dizzy]

Wasnt there a server where the feds and klinks vs everyone else? I did a map like that once but when I was done the blue and red blobs just ate each other on the map and I got an error message.

[762_XC]

Actually if you give the F-NCD a 100% HET it will probably solve the issue.

[Riskyllama]

If we look at fleets, we'll see that the active are as follows. And god help me if I missed a major fleet, I'll never hear the end of it.
SSCF (I'm not even sure these guys are active because of EVEcrack but they did make SGO6)
F1AF
XC
FPF
FSD
GDA
KBF
KHH
KAT/KOTH

While there are loose unaffiliated people, what you just proposed is that every major fleet still around, minus KAT, and maybe KHH be on one side, asssuming normal preferences. I think you're quite lost it. Hell I turn 21 today, what the heck are you drinking I might wanna try it.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Wasnt there a server where the feds and klinks vs everyone else? I did a map like that once but when I was done the blue and red blobs just ate each other on the map and I got an error message.

There was an attempt at that... iirc, the KBF didn't fly klink, but on the opposite of the Feds and the SSCF guys quit over it....

[762_XC]

KHH and KBF are really the only guys who show up as a fleet any more. You could count XC, but we don't always fly together.

9th did surprise us and make a good showing for the start of SGO6, but they kind of petered off towards the end.

[FPF-DieHard]

Good to see somebody got the joke 

[Hexx]

I vote for whichever option t00l hates more.

[Mutilator]

KHH and KBF are really the only guys who show up as a fleet any more. You could count XC, but we don't always fly together.

9th did surprise us and make a good showing for the start of SGO6, but they kind of petered off towards the end.

**cough**

FSD tends to still fly a lot together, we will divide our numbers if a server requires more of an even mix of numbers or talent, I mean really how fair would Lyran Civil war be (if it happens) if all the elite Lyran players fly on the same side... I mean really

Besides WTF is a drone? 

[Hexx]

KHH and KBF are really the only guys who show up as a fleet any more. You could count XC, but we don't always fly together.

9th did surprise us and make a good showing for the start of SGO6, but they kind of petered off towards the end.

**cough**

 I mean really how fair would Lyran Civil war be   if all the elite Lyran players fly on the same side... I mean really

I will be... really

[762_XC]

KHH and KBF are really the only guys who show up as a fleet any more. You could count XC, but we don't always fly together.

9th did surprise us and make a good showing for the start of SGO6, but they kind of petered off towards the end.

**cough**

FSD tends to still fly a lot together, we will divide our numbers if a server requires more of an even mix of numbers or talent, I mean really how fair would Lyran Civil war be (if it happens) if all the elite Lyran players fly on the same side... I mean really

Besides WTF is a drone? 

ACCK, I knew I missed somebody.

Sorry Mut. 

[NuclearWessels]

There has been some concer about allying the Klingons with the Kzinti (okay, some whining from t00l) because it puts all the fast-misions droners on one side.   Since SS2 had slightly different racial alliances than SS1, why not flip another race?

Swap the Kzinti for the Feds.   F-K-G-L versus H-Z-R-I.

Flame away   

What about a t-bomb only server, where we start everyone as allies?

OK, maybe everyone but Hexx.

[Mutilator]

KHH and KBF are really the only guys who show up as a fleet any more. You could count XC, but we don't always fly together.

9th did surprise us and make a good showing for the start of SGO6, but they kind of petered off towards the end.

**cough**

 I mean really how fair would Lyran Civil war be   if all the elite Lyran players fly on the same side... I mean really

I will be... really

Any ideas as to when? Guessing will not be first two week of Sept since SGO VI just ended. I'll cross my paws for Jan 07 as I will be at sea until end of the year...

[Mutilator]

KHH and KBF are really the only guys who show up as a fleet any more. You could count XC, but we don't always fly together.

9th did surprise us and make a good showing for the start of SGO6, but they kind of petered off towards the end.

**cough**

FSD tends to still fly a lot together, we will divide our numbers if a server requires more of an even mix of numbers or talent, I mean really how fair would Lyran Civil war be (if it happens) if all the elite Lyran players fly on the same side... I mean really

Besides WTF is a drone? 

ACCK, I knew I missed somebody.

Sorry Mut. 

No worries 762    just look in your rear view mirror next server that will be FSD hunting you down yet again...unless for some bizarre occurace we end up on the same side for a change. 

[762_XC]

unless for some bizarre occurace we end up on the same side for a change. 

3 words Mut...

Hellbore ESG interaction

 

[Hexx]

unless for some bizarre occurace we end up on the same side for a change. 

3 words Mut...

Hellbore ESG interaction

 

He'll do it too.

He seems to think it's funny to drop his wing's ESG's right before an overrun, or when you've used your phasers and
set teh ESGs up for drone defence.
(though that one may have been Bear...)


Used his hellbores to drop my ESG's right before an overrun.It's all fun and games until you're about to overrun something with a few less ESGs than you had planned on having.

[762_XC]

The best part was you had a down shield, so you actually took internals.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Actually, Hexx... one time it was both of us....

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

There has been some concer about allying the Klingons with the Kzinti (okay, some whining from t00l) because it puts all the fast-misions droners on one side.   Since SS2 had slightly different racial alliances than SS1, why not flip another race?

Swap the Kzinti for the Feds.   F-K-G-L versus H-Z-R-I.

Flame away   

But you forgot to mention Dizzy's whinning about the Feds, ISC, and Hydrans being allied on the other side and calling it an unbeatable combo 

Of course Dizzy then announced his intention to fly Fed so to be on the "unbeatable" side  , Come on Dizzy fly Gorn, I dare you, you think your good enought to get 5+ kills flying Gorn?  You get 10 and I"ll be forced to show you alot of respect  , and when you can't do it you've always got Lyran (where you have definately proven yourself already) to fall back on.

P.S.  The reason I look so forward to flying on the Storm Season Servers is the fact that they give the Kzin that rare opportunity to fly with our Klingon friends.  Take that away and its not so special anymore.  Since I've been playing I can only think of 2 times the Kzin and Klingons were allied, Storm Season I and Storm Season II.  They also happen to be my 2 favorite servers.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Actually if you give the F-NCD a 100% HET it will probably solve the issue.

Actuall if t00l learned to properly  fly a fed droner it would probably solve the issue. 

A droner doesn't need a HET to fly fast missions.

[Dizzy]

But you forgot to mention Dizzy's whinning about the Feds, ISC, and Hydrans being allied on the other side and calling it an unbeatable combo 

Of course Dizzy then announced his intention to fly Fed so to be on the "unbeatable" side  , Come on Dizzy fly Gorn, I dare you, you think your good enought to get 5+ kills flying Gorn? 

One gorn ship vs PPD, Photons and Hellbores... I like it. Crazy so much I may do it...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

But you forgot to mention Dizzy's whinning about the Feds, ISC, and Hydrans being allied on the other side and calling it an unbeatable combo 

Of course Dizzy then announced his intention to fly Fed so to be on the "unbeatable" side  , Come on Dizzy fly Gorn, I dare you, you think your good enought to get 5+ kills flying Gorn? 

One gorn ship vs PPD, Photons and Hellbores... I like it. Crazy so much I may do it...

Gorn have a certain appeal to me as well due to their "vanillish" nature.  They definately require alot of finess.

[762_XC]

Actually if you give the F-NCD a 100% HET it will probably solve the issue.

Actuall if t00l learned to properly  fly a fed droner it would probably solve the issue. 

A droner doesn't need a HET to fly fast missions.

Well no, not if it has 6 racks and draws at only 74 BPV. I'm sure if you add 3 racks to the FFB that would work as well.

[KBFKaz]

How about K,H,G,L vs. F,R,M,I?

[Nemesis]

How about K,H,G,L vs. F,R,M,I?

How about F vs K vs everyone else (even pirates) allied together.  Basically everyone else is annoyed the 2 great powers dominate everything and set out to cut them down to size.  Naturally no alliance between Kligons and Federation (unless 1 loses at least 2/3s of their economy).

[FPF-DieHard]

How about K,H,G,L vs. F,R,M,I?

How about F vs K vs everyone else (even pirates) allied together.  Basically everyone else is annoyed the 2 great powers dominate everything and set out to cut them down to size.  Naturally no alliance between Kligons and Federation (unless 1 loses at least 2/3s of their economy).

You apparantly aren't too familiar with today's player demographics     This would have been cool as hell 2 years ago had it not been for politics

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Actually if you give the F-NCD a 100% HET it will probably solve the issue.

Actuall if t00l learned to properly  fly a fed droner it would probably solve the issue. 

A droner doesn't need a HET to fly fast missions.

Well no, not if it has 6 racks and draws at only 74 BPV. I'm sure if you add 3 racks to the FFB that would work as well.

No HET adds about 5 seconds to a mission time in most cases with the Fed NCD, thats about all.  All those phaser 1s help at times as well, such as shipyard assaults and in fighting certain escorts, actually saving time.

[762_XC]

Baloney. You either get a one pass kill or you don't.

Drawing war cruisers with no HET pretty much means you don't.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Baloney. You either get a one pass kill or you don't.

Lacking an HET in an NCD never seems to cause me any great difficulty when I fly one.

Drawing war cruisers with no HET pretty much means you don't.

I seem to often enough when flying the NCD, maybe not as much as in a Z-DF, but often enough.

[762_XC]

I must have been on sabbatical all those times you flew Fed.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I must have been on sabbatical all those times you flew Fed.

Flew the NCD a little bit on SGO6 just a few weeks ago    also a great deal on GW5.

[762_XC]

Well, if you can get consistent one-pass kills with it like most peeps can with the DF or D5D, you'll have to show me how.

Talk is cheap. Seeing is believing!

[Riskyllama]

Well, if you can get consistent one-pass kills with it like most peeps can with the DF or D5D, you'll have to show me how.

Talk is cheap. Seeing is believing!

tool's just grumpy cause he has bad HET dice

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well, if you can get consistent one-pass kills with it like most peeps can with the DF or D5D, you'll have to show me how.

Talk is cheap. Seeing is believing!

Can't as much as in the Z-DF but I can as much as in the D5D I believe.  There are a few ai ships that make a one pass hard such as cloaking Romulans, most escorts, the Klingon D5 series (even if not an escort), and ships with large numbers of tractors.  Otherwise most light cruiser and many heavy cruiser hulls will pop if you get your timing and positioning right.  The ones that wont pop likely wont pop with an HET either, although it might come into play about 5-10% of the time.  Of course some ships you don't death drag but overrun instead, you have to recognize those opportunities as well.

Where lack of an HET can slow you down is in missions with multiple ships.  I like to Het on the first so that I still can keep turning after it pops to set up my run on the second ai.  Without a Het the positioning for the second can be  more time consuming, especially if you Alt-stop for the first kill.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well, if you can get consistent one-pass kills with it like most peeps can with the DF or D5D, you'll have to show me how.

Talk is cheap. Seeing is believing!

tool's just grumpy cause he has bad HET dice

Thats because he uses the HIT (Highly Intoxicated Turn) instead of the HET 

[762_XC]

There are a few ai ships that make a one pass hard such as cloaking Romulans, most escorts, the Klingon D5 series (even if not an escort)

AMD-armed draws is exactly where the HET is critical. If Jeff is keeping the same sides as in SS2, the F-NCD can expect to see a lot of them.

Would anyone seriously object to a F-NCD with a 100% HET? It's still just a droner, and one with an inferior power curve to the D5D. We're only talking about balancing mission times here.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

There are a few ai ships that make a one pass hard such as cloaking Romulans, most escorts, the Klingon D5 series (even if not an escort)

AMD-armed draws is exactly where the HET is critical. If Jeff is keeping the same sides as in SS2, the F-NCD can expect to see a lot of them.

But you have Lyran and Gorn ai as well with no amd, and if I know you you will be destroying any klingon and Mirak resupply that you can to get a Lyran ai draw 

Would anyone seriously object to a F-NCD with a 100% HET? It's still just a droner, and one with an inferior power curve to the D5D. We're only talking about balancing mission times here.

Unneeded.  Would you give up 2 shuttles and 2 power (making it 26 like the MDC) for it?  If so i wouldn't object.

[Dizzy]

Would anyone seriously object to a F-NCD with a 100% HET? It's still just a droner, and one with an inferior power curve to the D5D. We're only talking about balancing mission times here.

Are you insane? If you do that you mise well give all the Feds a 100%. Hell lets give the lyrans the same too.

[762_XC]

Why compare it to the MDC, when the Kzin have 3 droners that are better? The D5D is more apt.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Why compare it to the MDC, when the Kzin have 3 droners that are better? The D5D is more apt.

Several reasons the main being that I know Mirak best.  The second that the MDC is the mirak light cruiser drone boat.  The third being that to make it more comparable to the D5D by giving it a 100% HET would be offset by the losing of 2 shuttles and the downgrading of the phaser 1s to phaser 2s and 3s.  A Fed ship with phaser 2s seems a bit silly to me so I went with the MDC. 

I had one more reason as well, I wanted to see if you wanted the HET enough to be willing to give up the 2 points of power.  This makes the ship a bit less for PvP purposes but does little to hurt its ai hexflipping ability. 

[762_XC]

PvP? 

OMG, who the hell talks about PvP for a droner? LOL that's funny.

<chuckle> Look, it's very simple. With the current setup the K Z G L side will have the four best flippers in the game. I'm suggesting one minor change to the #5 ship that will not affect its PvP (snicker) ability in the slightest, but put it more on a par with the #4 ship for mission times.

I'll let Jeff decide if it makes sense or not.

[FPF-DieHard]

What about the CLD?   The ship has 0 PvP viability.

I personally don't think any change is needed though I'm wondering how much longer this thread can continue before:

A.  t00l dies of a stroke
b.  Chutt dies by suffocating on his own bullsh!t   

[Hexx]

Well any change to a Fed droner will make it completely outclass the best Lyran
flipper, so I don't know... t00l are you sure it's OK to balance one ship from race A
against ships from races B & C if it outclasses ships from race D?

BTW
Anyone (and I assume someone does) knows which ship and fighter list Jeff's are based on?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

PvP? 

He who flies in a glass  Lord Bipshop should not be casting stones at the Z-DF.   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

What about the CLD?   The ship has 0 PvP viability.

I personally don't think any change is needed though I'm wondering how much longer this thread can continue before:

A.  t00l dies of a stroke
b.  Chutt dies by suffocating on his own bullsh!t   

Option C.  t00l realizes it isn't needed
Option D. Dizzy presses his lobby for the Lyran BCHs to get a HET too.

[Hexx]

Option D. Dizzy presses his lobby for the Lyran BCHs to get a HET too.

I see no game-breaking issue with this.
Anyone have any good reason it shouldn't?

[Mutilator]

Option D. Dizzy presses his lobby for the Lyran BCHs to get a HET too.

I see no game-breaking issue with this.
Anyone have any good reason it shouldn't?

Only one. Why was this not thought of sooner?... and really why stop at 100 after years of HET oppression on the Lyran BCHs I think a 120 or 135 base would be a rather refreshing change   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

<Waits for t00l's head to exploded at thought of 100% HET for Lyran BCHs>

 

[Lepton]

Slippery slope.  Some things, check that, most things should stay as they are with respect to SFB source materials.