Topic: An idea to promote line ships.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I'll give you one example Lepton,

I'm in a Z D-F, t00l is in a H-LB.  Not possessing Soreyes skill and audacity with the D-F I try and sneak in a wave on t00l.  After 20 minutes I've been unsucessful and he has scored a fair amount of internals.  Using 5 spares I'm still able to fly at 31 as he nickle and dimes me down.  If I have 5 more spares I can stay a bit longer in hopes of a "lucky" shot.  If I don't have them i have to make a decision immediately on whether to run or stay as another hellbore hit will slow me enough to get caught.

Either way with 5 or 10 spares the result will be the same 95% of the time (unlesss t00l has drunk more cutty sark than usual), but without 5 more spares the affair is concluded more quickly.

The other side might be a case where a little bit larger droner, say a D5D, that has some phasers on it and a great power curb, might be able to use its spares long enough to extend a fight so that it could break an opponent's rear shield as it chases it.  The D5D then could hit and run some systems and perhaps pull off a kill with 10 spares that it could not have with only 5.

It is indeed a tricky thing to balance.  But perhaps we can try it sometime and see how it plays out.

[FPF-DieHard]

It is indeed a tricky thing to balance.  But perhaps we can try it sometime and see how it plays out.

Nah, let's run with it full speed ahead!!! 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

It is indeed a tricky thing to balance.  But perhaps we can try it sometime and see how it plays out.

Nah, let's run with it full speed ahead!!! 

Full speed ahead is the only way to get a true trial 

[Lepton]

Yes, I understand the logic.  I have understood it from the first.  I merely see no reason to attempt to balance speciality ships against line ships.  One should not be penalized for flying any particular type of ship and I see no particular reason to wish to shorten or lengthen PvP engagements.  There is a simple proposal made that I will make again.  Have line ships be exempt from the disengagement rule when faced with a non-line ship.  This will force players (yes, I used that word and I know all your perverts like it) into line ships by one additional rule.  A line ship is subject to the disengagement rule when faced by other line ships.  So to clear out a hex for flipping, players will have to run to line ships just as now they run to DNs and other wacky ships to fully clear out a hex.  Both ship types, line and non-line, will be essential not only for strategic purposes but also for PvP purposes.  Forgot one additional rule that should be obvious, non-line ships are always subject to the disengagement rule.

[KBF-Crim]

"One should not be penalized for flying any particular type of ship "

Yeah...that's what I been sayin....

[762_XC]

I'll give you one example Lepton,

I'm in a Z D-F, t00l is in a H-LB.  Not possessing Soreyes skill and audacity with the D-F I try and sneak in a wave on t00l.  After 20 minutes I've been unsucessful and he has scored a fair amount of internals.  Using 5 spares I'm still able to fly at 31 as he nickle and dimes me down.  If I have 5 more spares I can stay a bit longer in hopes of a "lucky" shot.  If I don't have them i have to make a decision immediately on whether to run or stay as another hellbore hit will slow me enough to get caught.

Either way with 5 or 10 spares the result will be the same 95% of the time (unlesss t00l has drunk more cutty sark than usual), but without 5 more spares the affair is concluded more quickly.

The other side might be a case where a little bit larger droner, say a D5D, that has some phasers on it and a great power curb, might be able to use its spares long enough to extend a fight so that it could break an opponent's rear shield as it chases it.  The D5D then could hit and run some systems and perhaps pull off a kill with 10 spares that it could not have with only 5.

It is indeed a tricky thing to balance.  But perhaps we can try it sometime and see how it plays out.

I'm not sure I get this. Barring the occasional Cutty Sark-fueled anomaly, what do parts have to do with a droner having a prayer against a line ship? I think we're talking about fast cruisers more than anything else here.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

We are, but as proposed, ALL specialty ships would have reduced repair parts to reflect the difference in their systems from line ships.

[KBF-Crim]

God...I remember when the droner was the bane of PvP...no one flew them for killing live players.....because it was impossible...

My how times have changed....

[Lepton]

"One should not be penalized for flying any particular type of ship "

Yeah...that's what I been sayin....

Yeah, I agree with you.  Forget all that other PvP point crap I was saying.  This system will be great.  It will create a whole new dynamic.  Line ships will be scraping with line ships and it will mean something.  When a line ship runs into a non-line ship, neither will really wish to withdraw as for the line ship there is no penalty for death and the non-line ship does not want to be bumped or give up the DV shift.  This will escalate to bringing in both line and non-line ships into meaningful PvP battles that have both map consequences.  The only exploit I can see is if a side would refuse to fly either non-line or line ships both of which I think would be hard to do.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

what do parts have to do with a droner having a prayer against a line ship?

More than you would think if the droner has enough phasers on it to crack a shield of its foe. 


Perhaps we should not impose limits on spare as far as droners, escorts, and carriers.  These ships were in the stock game.  Restricting them on fast cruisers couldn't really be seen as a penalty as these ships are not stock but rather additional options that have been offered to players by memebers of our community.  Since they weren't stock ships, having them available in any form can be seen as a bonus.  This should quell most opposition to the limiting of parts.

[Hexx]

I'd say restrict them on all specialty

The restriction on spare parts will have a far greater effect on DN's than on specialty ships.
As has (I think) been mentioned, not to many CF's are using more than 5 spare parts in duels with line ships.
In single duels I still think the DNL with 5 will beat a DN with 15, but the extra spares will let the DN have a fate better chance of turning it into a slugging match.
In Fleet engagements (as long as CF's are restricted) a DN will become (in most cases) a better ship to have than a DNL as it will turn into more of a slugging match.

[Dizzy]

Whoa, a DNL shouldnt have less than a DCR of 2. 5 is too little. 10 is just right. CF, 5 sure. But what of the rest? Like carriers and bombardment ships? I dont want to shortchange these ships too much. This is a radical move. Fast cruisers I can see with fewer spares, the other specialty ships will be a hard sell.

[FPF-DieHard]

Whoa, a DNL shouldnt have less than a DCR of 2. 5 is too little. 10 is just right. CF, 5 sure. But what of the rest? Like carriers and bombardment ships? I dont want to shortchange these ships too much. This is a radical move. Fast cruisers I can see with fewer spares, the other specialty ships will be a hard sell.

I disagree.  Carriers/droners/Tenders get a ton of "BPV" basicly for free (yeah you pay for supplies, but that doesn't matter in PvP).   The 5 fewer spares should even this out. 

[Hexx]

Whoa, a DNL shouldnt have less than a DCR of 2. 5 is too little. 10 is just right.

If you want people to fly the DNL's until DNH's come out, 10 is fine
Otherwise cut them back to five.

CAn't really see any serious PVPer (although I freely admit to not being one)
saying " Oooh I'll give up the insane powercurve of the DNL for those extra 5 spares.."
5 spares means you really have to watch wht you do, 10 gives you enough to repair pretty much anything you'll need.

[Dizzy]

tHIS ALTERS THE GAMEPLAY DYNAMICALLY. oops caps. I cant see specialty ships across the board with 5 fewer parts. DNL's shouldnt have less than 10. 5 is way too much of a handicap.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

My biggest concern with the cutback of parts for ships is that some races might have huge gaps in their list due to this.  Take the Gorn BF.  If it gets cut back to 5 parts it would be a greater handicap than the reduction in other specialty ships as the Gorn have to rely on that boat quite a bit.  Now I did hear something about changing some refit dates so it might work ok if those are tweaked.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Whoa, a DNL shouldnt have less than a DCR of 2. 5 is too little. 10 is just right. CF, 5 sure. But what of the rest? Like carriers and bombardment ships? I dont want to shortchange these ships too much. This is a radical move. Fast cruisers I can see with fewer spares, the other specialty ships will be a hard sell.

I disagree.  Carriers/droners/Tenders get a ton of "BPV" basicly for free (yeah you pay for supplies, but that doesn't matter in PvP).   The 5 fewer spares should even this out. 

Umm..... BPV usually doesn't mean anything in PvP (unless ai is involved) The fact that their Heavy metal/PvP points are adjusted upwards would make them equal.  BPV is really only important for ai fights, ship cost,  and determining replacement value.

[FPF-DieHard]

tHIS ALTERS THE GAMEPLAY DYNAMICALLY.

For the better 

[Dizzy]

tHIS ALTERS THE GAMEPLAY DYNAMICALLY.

For the better 

Insane!

[FPF-DieHard]

tHIS ALTERS THE GAMEPLAY DYNAMICALLY.

For the better 

Insane!

I've been called worse.