Topic: An idea to promote line ships.

[Hexx]

Aye, Hexx, but the DNL's won't be able to stick around in a fire fight for as long now...

3 CC/CA's will now have a MUCH better chance vs the DNL, 2 CF's fleet....

Yesss..
but you can say a 5% chance is much better than a 1% chance..

The problem (entirely as I see it) is the ability to combine CFs & DNL's ability to operate at around spd 30 in early

The DNL's huge advantage has alwyas been it's excellent power curve combined with a (near) DN weapons load
which is why they were (almost always) chosen above DN's.
Nothing has changed.

As I said though- if this is combined with the fleeting rules, then yes, for the specialties at least it has changed
and for the better (imo)
If the fleeting rules are used (I'm really hoping they are) then the DNL's powercurve will be somehwat restricted as it operates with CC's instead of CF',s it will have to fly slower (or simply use the CC's to phaserboat) which may result in the fights turning into more of slugging matches, where tha abilty to carry 10-15 extra spares on a regular DN may become very appealing

EDIT:Actually me restate that -the more I think about it the more I think this is a great idea (if used in conjunction wtih new fleeting rules)
The DNL will still (likely) dominate in solo fights, but the fleet engagements will (I'd think) favour the DN with more spares.

[Hexx]

Ya I guess your correct,...

How about this thought,...

Instead of starting with really small ships how about you start with medium ones.  That way an infrequent player who steps in after a game has been going doesn't start off flying a frigate with everyone else in good stuff.   Sure, once it is destroyed go back to small stuff.  

So just your start ship is a good one ?  

Like I say get hooked early and they will come back.

Most servers these days offer a fair amount of prestige to start, enough to grab a decent ship.

[FPF-DieHard]

with only 5 Spares, a DNL can no longer maniacly chase down and opponent or afford to get in a Knife fight with a "real" Dread.

Still, from a Federation standpoint you won't see the DN+ flown unless the FYA is moved up, I imagine this is the same for the other races.

[Hexx]

Lyrans would probably go with the DNPp, DNL doesn't have quite the same gap over our DN
extra 10 spares would (probably) be worth it.


But again- if this is combined with the CF's as capital ships idea it would leave them (DNls& CFs)to dominate 1v1's
(which was arguably their role anyway) and put teh "line" ships and DN's into the fleets.

[Age]

   You could use 5/10 or 6/12 . or half a dozen of the other.Not a bad idea Chuut.

[Riskyllama]

damcon assigns spares in blocks of 5, i dont think anything else affects this value, so its 5,10,15 etc

[762_XC]

Thinking about the DNL issue, the real reason non-heavy DN's are not flown is becuase of plasma.

It's a question of historical matchups. The Kzin and Hydran DN's almost never had to fight Roms (Titan being the exception) and the Lyran and Klingon DN's almost never had to fight Gorns. The few historical exceptions happened at the end of the GW.

The GW series showed that the western dreads are not that bad when they only have to fight each other. As much as I hated flying the PAL it was not a total deathtrap against a C8B, and vice versa.

If Superhawks and BF's had been appearing in the western theater in 2270, those ships doubtless would have been designed with more power.

[FPF-DieHard]

Thinking about the DNL issue, the real reason non-heavy DN's are not flown is becuase of plasma.

It's a question of historical matchups. The Kzin and Hydran DN's almost never had to fight Roms (Titan being the exception) and the Lyran and Klingon DN's almost never had to fight Gorns. The few historical exceptions happened at the end of the GW.

The GW series showed that the western dreads are not that bad when they only have to fight each other. As much as I hated flying the PAL it was not a total deathtrap against a C8B, and vice versa.

If Superhawks and BF's had been appearing in the western theater in 2270, those ships doubtless would have been designed with more power.

And the Gorn woul dhave better drone defense . . .

Most of the "balance" issue in this game can be blamed on non-traditional enemies and the existance of the ISC.

[KBF-Crim]

How about this....if you dont fly line ships your a wuss...

[Hexx]

How about this....if you dont fly line ships your a wuss...

Uhmmm thought you don't fly line ships?   

[KBF-Crim]

How about this....if you dont fly line ships your a wuss...

Uhmmm thought you don't fly line ships?   

Search every post I've ever made....not once...have I ever claimed to not be a wuss.....

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

With the idea of limited spares for fast cruisers and talk of fleeting restrictions for them, how about we bring back some older ideas about special functions for them?

One idea was that they would have a better ability to disengage.  Now I don't think anyone wants to have them immune from disengagement rules, but how about offering them a limited immunity from the deepstrike have to stay and fight requirement.  They would still be banned from the ex (and radius) if chased out, but they wouldn't have to stay and fight to the death if they were within 2 hexes of a friendly or neutral hex instead of simply being adjacent to one.  This would give them some extra functionality based on what they are designed for.

Thoughts?

[el-Karnak]

Cool idea about giving more spares to line ships.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

With the idea of limited spares for fast cruisers and talk of fleeting restrictions for them, how about we bring back some older ideas about special functions for them?

One idea was that they would have a better ability to disengage.  Now I don't think anyone wants to have them immune from disengagement rules, but how about offering them a limited immunity from the deepstrike have to stay and fight requirement.  They would still be banned from the ex (and radius) if chased out, but they wouldn't have to stay and fight to the death if they were within 2 hexes of a friendly or neutral hex instead of simply being adjacent to one.  This would give them some extra functionality based on what they are designed for.

Thoughts?

I thought it should have been implemented when it was proposed before.

[762_XC]

Do we honestly need any more incentive to fly fast cruisers??? 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I thought it should have been implemented when it was proposed before.

I think with limited spares the idea will be more palatable for some, they can deepstrike better uder my propossal, but without the additional spares their deepstriking ability is curtailed somewhat.

[Lepton]

Hey, just to throw fuel on the fire.  The Mirak DF is not a line ship nor is any other drone frigate, drone destroyer, drone light or heavy cruiser.  They are meant as support vessels for large battles and bombardment.  See ya.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Hey, just to throw fuel on the fire.  The Mirak DF is not a line ship nor is any other drone frigate, drone destroyer, drone light or heavy cruiser.  They are meant as support vessels for large battles and bombardment.  See ya.

Of course they aren't line ships, but we don't have 20 player battles yet for them to be deployed into.    See ya.   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Now one thing I am concerned about is the reaction of other pilots who fly mostly specialty ships that don't consider themselves "aces".  Does such limitations on spares for these ships threaten their fun?  It is something that we must all be deeply aware of if it does.

For me I have rarely been in a situation where a few more spare parts meant a different outcome in PvP when flying a droner.  It has happened but very rarely.  Versus ai it has been more of a factor particularly if you draw an escort, and even more so if you draw multiple escorts.  The decrease in the frequency of fleet actions vs ai will likely help with this somewhat, but I could see it being very frustrating for some.  perhaps Admiral level ai should be downgraded as well to help compensate.

[Lepton]

I really don't get this spare part thing.  Who cares?  Some nutty ship speciality should be able to clean the place up so I see no need to attempt to balance them against line ships.  Basically, I would like to see two levels of play here: one in which players fly line ships and are rewarded for it in some manner, PvP points, rule exemptions what have you and one in which nutty speciality ships and heavy iron duke it out for the sake of fun and strategic outcomes not necessarily tactical sophistication.  The idea of putting more veterans in line ships for me is merely to ever so slightly level the playing field a bit.  I see no particular reason to make speciality ships or iron somehow more tolerable with respect to line ships.  Merely restrict their use to some degree and that is sufficient.  Heck you could take them all out for all I care, but other people seem to enjoy them.  I am sure you all have fine reasons for your arguments but I think we've left sense behind with this one.  Next someone is going to be telling me how many marines I can put on my marine ship or how many drone reloads I am permitted to purchase.  Slippery slope.