Topic: MISSION MAP MAKING CHALLENGE!!! (Read 5340 times)

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #20 on:** August 31, 2006, 06:03:24 pm »

Quote from: dizzy on August 31, 2006, 11:04:17 am

.....

It's a bad idea to have map development setup anywhere outside a closed group.

Nah - disagree totally. My map-making abilities are wayyyy stale after all this time - I want to see what folks come up with. Anything "bad" I'll toss, and anything good I'll steal

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2006, 06:29:37 pm »

How's this one?

" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |.............wxy.......I.H....|",
"2|........................G.....|",
" |.....................<........|",
" |....................>...<.....|",
" |...................<.B>.......|",
" |....................>.>.......|",
"3|....................<...<.....|",
" |.............Z.z..............|",
" |.........................W.X..|",
" |..........................Y...|",
" |..............................|",
"4|.............ghi..............|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |.........STFU!................|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",

ehh, it's a bit off center. I'll have to work on it some more.

Dizzy · « **Reply #22 on:** August 31, 2006, 06:32:22 pm »

Dave, I think what we need is a mission statement. And a goal. And some more guidelines.

Some questions... I've seen 3 map sizes or so. A very small one, med and large I think. Can you show me the dimensions of these three maps. And what besides the 3 spawn points per side do u need? Obviously the maps need to have 2x spawn points for the 2x pirate slots per side that you have, but if they dont what is the result?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #23 on:** August 31, 2006, 07:14:34 pm »

Mission statement? We don' need no steenkeeng mission statement!

Goals == less work for dave, less work for dave, less work for dave

OK, the idea is to have a bit more variety than currently exists as far as terrain and start positions.

I was planning on using these for the missions that spawn 0 or 1 pirate teams, but if you want to include start position V (and facing v) then they will also be usable for the missions that spawn 2 pirate teams.

In terms of guidelines, I guess we don't want the teams starting too close to one another (say at least 7 or 8 spaces between them), or outrageously far apart (what, more than about 14 space between?).

As far as the maps sizes go -- see how the x and y axis in the example posted are about 6x6?
That's on the large side for ED missions. Most ED missions are 5x5, and the small ones were about 5x3.
(In this last round of map fixes the small ones were boosted up to the 5x5 range.)

Other than that .... ????

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #24 on:** August 31, 2006, 09:03:10 pm »

If you zoom out in your strategic map panel all the way, what is the range you see from edge to edge? I had a match take place, I think the very last one of the server between me, merlin and duck. We killed him only because he turned back into the map, more of a suicide run, but the asteroid map we were on was just a square tny thing and the red border could be seen on two sides the entire match. What was the size of that?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #25 on:** August 31, 2006, 10:12:39 pm »

Ah! There are 2 maps in 17Enemy that are itty bitty (an experiment where I tried different sized maps in the same script), I'll fix those
(they're probably like 2x2 as opposed to the 6x6 shown here)

dave

el-Karnak · « **Reply #26 on:** September 01, 2006, 11:07:57 pm »

--------------------Configuration: Kar_ePatrol - Win32 Release--------------------
Compiling...
WorldConditions.cpp
AttackTeam.cpp
AttackTeam2.cpp
AttackTeam3.cpp
AttackTeamShipBaseState.cpp
AttackTeam2BaseState.cpp
AttackTeam3BaseState.cpp
AttackTeamBaseState.cpp
AttackTeamShip.cpp
DefendTeam.cpp
DefendTeam2.cpp
DefendTeam3.cpp
DefendTeamShipBaseState.cpp
DefendTeam2BaseState.cpp
DefendTeam3BaseState.cpp
DefendTeamBaseState.cpp
DefendTeamShip.cpp
BaseVictoryState.cpp
BaseVictory.cpp
Kar_ePatrol.cpp
MissionMaps.cpp
MissionText.cpp
Linking...
Creating library Release/Kar_ePatrol.lib and object Release/Kar_ePatrol.exp

Kar_ePatrol.scr - 0 error(s), 0 warning(s)

"All systems check out. What course shall we set?"

Here's the mission map I used in the EEK Patrols:

   /*
   Legend:
   Starting Positions Ending Positions
   Start1 --> G End1 --> g
   Start2 --> H End2 --> h
   Start3 --> I End3 --> i
   Start4 --> J End4 --> j
   Start5 --> K End5 --> k
   Start6 --> L End6 --> l
   Start7 --> M End7 --> m
   Start8 --> N End8 --> n
   Start9 --> O End9 --> o
   Start10 --> P End10 --> p
   Start11 --> Q End11 --> q
   Start12 --> R End12 --> r
   Start13 --> S End13 --> s
   Start14 --> T End14 --> t
   Start15 --> U End15 --> u
   Start16 --> V End16 --> v
   Start17 --> W End17 --> w
   Start18 --> X End18 --> x
   Start19 --> Y End19 --> y
   Start20 --> Z End20 --> z

   Celestial Bodies:
   IceAsteroid --> *
   SmallAsteroid --> [ or a
   LargeAsteroid --> ] or A
   LightDustCloud --> < or d
   HeavyDustCloud --> > or D

   SmallBlackHole --> : or b
   LargeBlackHole --> , or B

   Fissure --> $ (No Damage)
   WormHole --> % (No Damage)
   Organian --> ^ (No Damage)
   Pulsar --> ~ (No Damage)

Stars:
   Sun1 --> (
   Sun2 --> )
   Sun3 --> !

   Nebula1 --> & or C
   Nebula2 --> ?

   Planets:
   Earth (Organia) --> 1
   Ringed Earth --> 2
   Mars --> 3
   Jupiter --> 4
   Dark Earth --> 5
   Saturn --> 6
   Night City --> 7
   Fire --> 8
   Ice --> 9
   Gas --> 0

   Ion Storm --> {

   */
   //
"Kar_ePatrol",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |......................M.......|",
" |.........................N....|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |......U..........g............|",
" |........Q.....................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..............................|",
" |............X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |...............Y..............|",
" |..Z.S.........................|",
"3|...........J..................|",
" |..............K...............|",
" |.........T.......L............|",
" |..............................|",
" |........................R.....|",
"4|..........................V...|",
" |.............G................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..........H.....I.............|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w.................|",
" |...........y..................|",
" |..O...........................|",
" |.....P........................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map -- Sun",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |......................M.......|",
" |.........................N....|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |......U..........g............|",
" |........Q.....................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..............................|",
" |............X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |...............Y..............|",
" |..Z.S.........................|",
"3|...........J..................|",
" |..............K...............|",
" |.........T.......L............|",
" |..............................|",
" |........................R.....|",
"4|..........................V...|",
" |.............G................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..........H.....I.............|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w.................|",
" |...........y...........(......|",
" |..O...........................|",
" |.....P........................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map -- Asteroids",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |......................M.......|",
" |....A.........a...........N...|",
" |........................A.....|",
"1|........*.....................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |......U..........g.......*....|",
" |........Q.....................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..........*.........a.........|",
" |...a........X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |...............Y........A.....|",
" |..Z.S....*.J..................|",
"3|.......*......K.............*.|",
" |....*......A.....L..a.........|",
" |.........T...............*....|",
" |.......a.......a...*..*.......|",
" |....A...................R.....|",
"4|..........................V...|",
" |.............G................|",
" |...................a..........|",
" |.....**...H.....I.............|",
" |.......................*.....a|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w........A........|",
" |...A.......y............*.....|",
" |.O............................|",
" |....a.P.......................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map -- Nebula",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |.C............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |.................g............|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..............................|",
" |............X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |...............Y..............|",
" |..............................|",
"3|..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"4|..............................|",
" |.............G................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..........H.....I.............|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w.................|",
" |...........y..................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map -- BlackHole",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |......U..........g............|",
" |........Q.....................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..............................|",
" |............X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |.......B.......Y..............|",
" |..Z.S.........................|",
"3|..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |.........T....................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"4|........................R.....|",
" |.............G............V...|",
" |..............................|",
" |..........H.....I.............|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w.................|",
" |...........y..................|",
" |..O...........................|",
" |.....P........................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",

Feel free to offer any map design suggestions.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2006, 10:20:20 am »

Beauty! Thanks!

I'm also just in the process of putting together the metaid-based pseudo-random number generator, so I can reintroduce the random terrain and ship placement

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #28 on:** September 02, 2006, 03:19:48 pm »

Some random suns have been shown to NOT be seeable by one side or the other. It has not been determined whether the drafter or draftee is the one who doesnt see the randomly generated suns in EEK missions, but it happens. So random sun generation is bad. Only have fixed sun maps, I dont see an issue with other randon terrain, course there was one eek mission i ran into a planet that wasnt there... At least I didnt see it, hehe. Everyone else did.

Riskyllama · « **Reply #29 on:** September 02, 2006, 03:24:18 pm »

The random suns have always been attributed to Karnak's revolutionary style of random number generation. If this works correctly though, it might be nice to try.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #30 on:** September 02, 2006, 05:03:53 pm »

Quote from: dizzy on September 02, 2006, 03:19:48 pm

Some random suns have been shown to NOT be seeable by one side or the other. It has not been determined whether the drafter or draftee is the one who doesnt see the randomly generated suns in EEK missions, but it happens. So random sun generation is bad. Only have fixed sun maps, I dont see an issue with other randon terrain, course there was one eek mission i ran into a planet that wasnt there... At least I didnt see it, hehe. Everyone else did.

Risky is right Diz, the problem with randomly generated terrain is the use of generators that are inconsistent across client/host, which includes the Taldren-supplied routine for generating random numbers. As long as a pseudo-random substitute is provided that is guaranteed to produce the same computation on host and non-host machines you're ok.

Ships and actual terrain are host-controlled, but visible terrain is calculated by each client seperately, hence the discrepancies. What is seen by one player isn't necessarily what is regarded as real by the host, and may not even be seen by the host, so all sorts of funky things can happen - including players looking to one player like they're flying unharmed through solid terrain, and players exploding when they hit terrain that is invisible to them.

But no worries, we'll keep the random-generated terrain limited to one or two scripts until it has proven itself stable in a real server, then migrate it to others.

dave

Riskyllama · « **Reply #31 on:** September 02, 2006, 07:10:59 pm »

Quote from: NuclearWessels on September 02, 2006, 05:03:53 pm

But no worries, we'll keep the random-generated terrain limited to one or two scripts until it has proven itself stable in a real server, then migrate it to others.

dave

why not cue up a bunch(if its easy enough) and start testing them on the forge. Also if it really is random, what are the chances one team will start inside a planet/sun/black hole?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #32 on:** September 02, 2006, 08:47:48 pm »

Quote from: Riskyllama on September 02, 2006, 07:10:59 pm

Quote from: NuclearWessels on September 02, 2006, 05:03:53 pm
But no worries, we'll keep the random-generated terrain limited to one or two scripts until it has proven itself stable in a real server, then migrate it to others.

dave

why not cue up a bunch(if its easy enough) and start testing them on the forge. Also if it really is random, what are the chances one team will start inside a planet/sun/black hole?

Don't worry, it won't be totally random - there will be checking in place to make sure that nothing spawns too close to something else (whether it's another terrain object or a ship).

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #33 on:** September 02, 2006, 09:11:20 pm »

Im not sure I caught that... You are saying that your random generation wont do what karnak's did?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #34 on:** September 02, 2006, 09:57:02 pm »

Quote from: dizzy on September 02, 2006, 09:11:20 pm

Im not sure I caught that... You are saying that your random generation wont do what karnak's did?

As long as I don't screw up

Yes - at least we've been able to deliberately/systematically produce the invisible terrain and eliminate it again.

dave

el-Karnak · « **Reply #35 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:02:56 pm »

Quote from: dizzy on September 02, 2006, 03:19:48 pm

Some random suns have been shown to NOT be seeable by one side or the other. It has not been determined whether the drafter or draftee is the one who doesnt see the randomly generated suns in EEK missions, but it happens. So random sun generation is bad. Only have fixed sun maps, I dont see an issue with other randon terrain, course there was one eek mission i ran into a planet that wasnt there... At least I didnt see it, hehe. Everyone else did.

Yeah, I will whack those randomly generated suns out. You also probably ran into the black planet like Jem did once in an PvP with WarSears. I can whack that planet out too if it becomes a problem.

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