Topic: MISSION MAP MAKING CHALLENGE!!! (Read 5341 times)

NuclearWessels · « **on:** August 29, 2006, 07:03:32 pm »

OK - the thing I REALLY hate about mission scripting is fiddling with the maps. By the time you've created 30 or 40 and edited them a couple of dozen times each the creative factor really starts sagging.

So - here's ~~my chance to be a lazy sod~~ your chance to be creative and have a lasting impact on the missions that you and everyone else runs over and over! .... make me a map to stick in one of the patrol missions!

You don't need any special tools, just cut and paste the map example down below and change any characters you want!

If you want to post a whole suite of maps (covering all sorts of terrain/planet/base combinations) that'd be even better!

Here are the restrictions:

(1) You have to stick to the map format PRECISELY -- the API is really picky, and even a single character out of place can cause the mission not to run. So I'll do a superficial eyeball of the map for any gross errors, but if I stick your map in and the mission no longer appears I'm just going to turf the map (well, I'll post a note here saying it didn't work, and you can eyeball it to look for the possible problem, it's not like I'm going to delete it from the thread

)

(2) You can paste your map directly in this thread, but to allow people to clearly see your map layout you need to use the teletype format (the typewriter button, or tt tags:

Code: [Select]

[tt] [/tt]

(3) Anyone that's interested can point out flaws in the maps or make suggestions for improvements, whoever posted the map is free to decide what they want to incorporate from the feedback by editing their post.

(4) There are a ton of missions, and a ton of terrain possibilities, so I can probably use all the maps that meet the criteria.

I'll post the map format criteria in just a second...

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2006, 07:20:18 pm »

Map Format Requirements

The map dimensions and overall structure must be exactly as shown below
The type of hex you want it to appear in must be listed after the // on the first line
All the editing of the actual map must be inside the | and _ boundaries
The letters G,H,I represent the starting positions of the three players on the drafter's team
The letters W,X,Y represent the starting positions of the three opposition players
The letter Z represents the starting position of any extra pirates/convoys/monsters in the mission
Lowercase letters indicate the point the teams are facing toward, i.e. player G faces towards g
Each dot (.) on the map represents an area of open space with dimensions about 10x10 in the actual mission
Special symbols represent the possible terrain types, I'll post a list below

Terrain symbols:
Starting Positions Ending Positions Planets Start1 --> G End1 --> g Earth --> 1 Start2 --> H End2 --> h Ringed Earth --> 2 Start3 --> I End3 --> i Mars --> 3 Start4 --> J End4 --> j Jupiter --> 4 Start5 --> K End5 --> k Organia --> 5 Start6 --> L End6 --> l Saturn --> 6 Start7 --> M End7 --> m Night City --> 7 Start8 --> N End8 --> n Fire --> 8 Start9 --> O End9 --> o Ice --> 9 Start10 --> P End10 --> p Gas --> 0 Start11 --> Q End11 --> q Start12 --> R End12 --> r Start13 --> S End13 --> s Start14 --> T End14 --> t Start15 --> U End15 --> u Start16 --> V End16 --> v Start17 --> W End17 --> w Start18 --> X End18 --> x Start19 --> Y End19 --> y Start20 --> Z End20 --> z Celestial Bodies Asteroids Black Holes Moon --> @ SmallAsteroid --> [ SmallBlackHole --> : Sun1 --> ( LargeAsteroid --> ] LargeBlackHole --> , Sun2 --> ) IceAsteroid --> * Sun3 --> ! Nebulas Dust Clouds Other Nebula1 --> & LightDustCloud --> < WormHole --> % Nebula2 --> ? HeavyDustCloud --> > Fissure --> $ Ion Storm --> {

Notes:
(1) if a nebula symbol appears anywhere on the map then the whole map is a nebula
(2) planets and suns take up more than the single space their symbol goes in, so don't position player start positions too close to one

Map Example

So this example shows a map that's dimensions 300x300, with a black hole in a cluster of dust clouds, the two teams a little north and south of the cloud, and a potential pirate location off to the west. All the rest is empty space.
"// Blackhole terrain, no planet, no base", " +____1____2____3____4____5____6+", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "1|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |.............wxy.......I.H....|", "2|........................G.....|", " |.....................<........|", " |....................>...<.....|", " |...................<.B>.......|", " |....................>.>.......|", "3|....................<...<.....|", " |.............Z.z..............|", " |.........................W.X..|", " |..........................Y...|", " |..............................|", "4|.............ghi..............|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "5|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "6|..............................|", " +------------------------------+", " 1 2 3 4 5 6",

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2006, 07:27:18 pm »

So PUHHLEEEAAAAASSSEEEE fire away - I'd really appreciate the ideas!

many thanks!
dave

Lepton · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2006, 07:34:07 pm »

"// The Suicide Pit", " +____1____2____3____4____5____6+", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "1|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |.............wxy..............|", "2|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "3|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |.........................W.X..|", " |..........................Y...|", " |..............................|", "4|.............ghi..............|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |...........!!!!!..............|", "5|...........!GHI!..............|", " |...........!!!!!..............|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "6|..............................|", " +------------------------------+", " 1 2 3 4 5 6",

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2006, 07:34:55 pm »

LOL - that's my Hexx mission

OK, I reserve the right not to use a map if it's TOOOO mean to the players
(and I used to think I was the evil one

)

dave

KAT Chuut-Ritt · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2006, 12:15:25 am »

Quote from: NuclearWessels on August 29, 2006, 07:20:18 pm

Map Format Requirements
The map dimensions and overall structure must be exactly as shown below
The type of hex you want it to appear in must be listed after the // on the first line
All the editing of the actual map must be inside the | and _ boundaries
The letters G,H,I represent the starting positions of the three players on the drafter's team
The letters W,X,Y represent the starting positions of the three opposition players
The letter Z represents the starting position of any extra pirates/convoys/monsters in the mission
Lowercase letters indicate the point the teams are facing toward, i.e. player G faces towards g
Each dot (.) on the map represents an area of open space with dimensions about 20x20 in the actual mission
Special symbols represent the possible terrain types, I'll post a list below

Terrain symbols:
Starting Positions Ending Positions Planets Start1 --> G End1 --> g Earth --> 1 Start2 --> H End2 --> h Ringed Earth --> 2 Start3 --> I End3 --> i Mars --> 3 Start4 --> J End4 --> j Jupiter --> 4 Start5 --> K End5 --> k Organia --> 5 Start6 --> L End6 --> l Saturn --> 6 Start7 --> M End7 --> m Night City --> 7 Start8 --> N End8 --> n Fire --> 8 Start9 --> O End9 --> o Ice --> 9 Start10 --> P End10 --> p Gas --> 0 Start11 --> Q End11 --> q Start12 --> R End12 --> r Start13 --> S End13 --> s Start14 --> T End14 --> t Start15 --> U End15 --> u Start16 --> V End16 --> v Start17 --> W End17 --> w Start18 --> X End18 --> x Start19 --> Y End19 --> y Start20 --> Z End20 --> z Celestial Bodies Asteroids Black Holes Moon --> @ SmallAsteroid --> [ SmallBlackHole --> : Sun1 --> ( LargeAsteroid --> ] LargeBlackHole --> , Sun2 --> ) IceAsteroid --> * Sun3 --> ! Nebulas Dust Clouds Other Nebula1 --> & LightDustCloud --> < WormHole --> % Nebula2 --> ? HeavyDustCloud --> > Fissure --> $

Notes:
(1) if a nebula symbol appears anywhere on the map then the whole map is a nebula
(2) planets and suns take up more than the single space their symbol goes in, so don't position player start positions too close to one

Map Example

So this example shows a map that's dimensions 600x600, with a black hole in a cluster of dust clouds, the two teams a little north and south of the cloud, and a potential pirate location off to the west. All the rest is empty space.
"// Blackhole terrain, no planet, no base", " +____1____2____3____4____5____6+", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "1|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |.............wxy.......I.H....|", "2|........................G.....|", " |.....................<........|", " |....................>...<.....|", " |...................<.B>.......|", " |....................>.>.......|", "3|....................<...<.....|", " |.............Z.z..............|", " |.........................W.X..|", " |..........................Y...|", " |..............................|", "4|.............ghi..............|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "5|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "6|..............................|", " +------------------------------+", " 1 2 3 4 5 6",

Do you honestly expect a real human being of the non-Geek variety to understand this?

How about a color coded map with nice icons to place instead?

SSCF-LeRoy · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:54:00 am »

Make every other dot a large asteroid and call it "J'inn's Worst Nightmare"

Dizzy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2006, 10:00:28 am »

Planet 2 and 6 will not ever be present in an sgo shiplist. So dont use these planets on maps plz. They were removed because they cause mission problems. DONT use them.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2006, 10:38:39 am »

Quote from: KAT Chuut-Ritt on August 30, 2006, 12:15:25 am

Do you honestly expect a real human being of the non-Geek variety to understand this?

How about a color coded map with nice icons to place instead?

LOL - tell me about it! Now you know why I dread map editing more than any other aspect of scripting

But this is the format Taldren gave us in the api, so this is the one we're stuck with.

dave

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2006, 10:56:25 am »

Quote from: dizzy on August 30, 2006, 10:00:28 am

Planet 2 and 6 will not ever be present in an sgo shiplist. So dont use these planets on maps plz. They were removed because they cause mission problems. DONT use them.

The ones that are places as map terrain are different Diz - they aren't armed, they aren't attackable, they can't attack -- effectively they're just big rocks you need to avoid running into. (The shiplist planets have to be generated by a different part of the script, those are the 2's and 6's we have to avoid.)

dave

Julin Eurthyr · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2006, 07:29:39 am »

Before I take a stab at this:

There's no way to do, for example, a map which is only 1/2 nebula (i'm thinking of an entering the Mutara scenerio)

How many rocks show up per rock symbol inserted? If I were to do a 3x3 area of contiguous asteroids, would it be 9 rocks in a grid-ish pattern or an area of the map essentially unpassable because there's 20-27+ rocks there?

What's the code for ion storm?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2006, 08:12:02 am »

No, sadly there's no way to make part of a map a nebula.

It's one rock per asteroid symbol .. it's worth noting that if you put several of them side by side you'll get the cases where the AI Jinn's itself. (Sorry Jinn, unjust or not, the term stuck

)

I added the ion storm symbol to the list, it's {
(though reportedly some graphics cards have difficulty displaying them???)

dave

Capt_Bearslayer_XC · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2006, 08:34:31 am »

Have fun hiding in the corners on this one....
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+", " |***>><<................<<>>***|", " |**>><<..................<<>>**|", " |*>><<....................<<>>*|", " |>><<......................<<>>|", "1|<<<........................<<<|", " |.......X.............Y........|", " |.......x.............y........|", " |.............W................|", " |.............w................|", "2|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "3|.Z............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "4|..............................|", " |..............g...............|", " |..............G...............|", " |.........h.........i..........|", " |.........H.........I..........|", "5|..............................|", " |<<<........................<<<|", " |>><<......................<<>>|", " |*>><<....................<<>>*|", " |**>><<..................<<>>**|", "6|***>><<................<<>>***|", " +------------------------------+", " 1 2 3 4 5 6",

Capt_Bearslayer_XC · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2006, 08:45:40 am »

"//To kill a "pirate" " +____1____2____3____4____5____6+", " |.........X....W....Y..........|", " |.........x....w....y..........|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "1|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "2|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "3|,z............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "4|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", "5|..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |..............................|", " |.........h....g....i..........|", "6|.........H....G....I..........|", " +------------------------------+", " 1 2 3 4 5 6",

Note the large black hole right next to the 'extra' enemy

Dizzy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2006, 09:58:10 am »

Bear, ED is being serious.

Capt_Bearslayer_XC · « **Reply #15 on:** August 31, 2006, 10:11:22 am »

Quote from: dizzy on August 31, 2006, 09:58:10 am

Bear, ED is being serious.

I take it we will be seeing some of your maps soon then?

Dizzy · « **Reply #16 on:** August 31, 2006, 11:04:17 am »

Quote from: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on August 31, 2006, 10:11:22 am

Quote from: dizzy on August 31, 2006, 09:58:10 am
Bear, ED is being serious.

I take it we will be seeing some of your maps soon then?

Oh, you'd have me do everything now wouldn't you! I just hope we dont see any of your maps, Bear, at least not the one where your starting points are so far off that combat wouldnt take place for at least 10 minutes.

It's a bad idea to have map development setup anywhere outside a closed group.

Capt_Bearslayer_XC · « **Reply #17 on:** August 31, 2006, 11:18:44 am »

Quote from: dizzy on August 31, 2006, 11:04:17 am

... at least not the one where your starting points are so far off that combat wouldnt take place for at least 10 minutes.

Sorry, but I have no idea of the scale on the maps....

I take it the 'no corners' one is better off for the seperation of the ships?

Riskyllama · « **Reply #18 on:** August 31, 2006, 11:24:41 am »

Quote from: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on August 31, 2006, 11:18:44 am

Quote from: dizzy on August 31, 2006, 11:04:17 am
... at least not the one where your starting points are so far off that combat wouldnt take place for at least 10 minutes.

Sorry, but I have no idea of the scale on the maps....

I take it the 'no corners' one is better off for the seperation of the ships?

# Each dot (.) on the map represents an area of open space with dimensions about 10x10 in the actual mission

Dizzy · « **Reply #19 on:** August 31, 2006, 11:31:53 am »

Quote from: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on August 31, 2006, 11:18:44 am

I take it the 'no corners' one is better off for the seperation of the ships?

I dont know what u r talking about, but the corners map u did, well, I'd be happy sticking a sun in the 4 corners and calling it a bright sunny square day. Don't need all that other stuff there.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #20 on:** August 31, 2006, 06:03:24 pm »

Quote from: dizzy on August 31, 2006, 11:04:17 am

.....

It's a bad idea to have map development setup anywhere outside a closed group.

Nah - disagree totally. My map-making abilities are wayyyy stale after all this time - I want to see what folks come up with. Anything "bad" I'll toss, and anything good I'll steal

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2006, 06:29:37 pm »

How's this one?

" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |.............wxy.......I.H....|",
"2|........................G.....|",
" |.....................<........|",
" |....................>...<.....|",
" |...................<.B>.......|",
" |....................>.>.......|",
"3|....................<...<.....|",
" |.............Z.z..............|",
" |.........................W.X..|",
" |..........................Y...|",
" |..............................|",
"4|.............ghi..............|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |.........STFU!................|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",

ehh, it's a bit off center. I'll have to work on it some more.

Dizzy · « **Reply #22 on:** August 31, 2006, 06:32:22 pm »

Dave, I think what we need is a mission statement. And a goal. And some more guidelines.

Some questions... I've seen 3 map sizes or so. A very small one, med and large I think. Can you show me the dimensions of these three maps. And what besides the 3 spawn points per side do u need? Obviously the maps need to have 2x spawn points for the 2x pirate slots per side that you have, but if they dont what is the result?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #23 on:** August 31, 2006, 07:14:34 pm »

Mission statement? We don' need no steenkeeng mission statement!

Goals == less work for dave, less work for dave, less work for dave

OK, the idea is to have a bit more variety than currently exists as far as terrain and start positions.

I was planning on using these for the missions that spawn 0 or 1 pirate teams, but if you want to include start position V (and facing v) then they will also be usable for the missions that spawn 2 pirate teams.

In terms of guidelines, I guess we don't want the teams starting too close to one another (say at least 7 or 8 spaces between them), or outrageously far apart (what, more than about 14 space between?).

As far as the maps sizes go -- see how the x and y axis in the example posted are about 6x6?
That's on the large side for ED missions. Most ED missions are 5x5, and the small ones were about 5x3.
(In this last round of map fixes the small ones were boosted up to the 5x5 range.)

Other than that .... ????

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #24 on:** August 31, 2006, 09:03:10 pm »

If you zoom out in your strategic map panel all the way, what is the range you see from edge to edge? I had a match take place, I think the very last one of the server between me, merlin and duck. We killed him only because he turned back into the map, more of a suicide run, but the asteroid map we were on was just a square tny thing and the red border could be seen on two sides the entire match. What was the size of that?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #25 on:** August 31, 2006, 10:12:39 pm »

Ah! There are 2 maps in 17Enemy that are itty bitty (an experiment where I tried different sized maps in the same script), I'll fix those
(they're probably like 2x2 as opposed to the 6x6 shown here)

dave

el-Karnak · « **Reply #26 on:** September 01, 2006, 11:07:57 pm »

--------------------Configuration: Kar_ePatrol - Win32 Release--------------------
Compiling...
WorldConditions.cpp
AttackTeam.cpp
AttackTeam2.cpp
AttackTeam3.cpp
AttackTeamShipBaseState.cpp
AttackTeam2BaseState.cpp
AttackTeam3BaseState.cpp
AttackTeamBaseState.cpp
AttackTeamShip.cpp
DefendTeam.cpp
DefendTeam2.cpp
DefendTeam3.cpp
DefendTeamShipBaseState.cpp
DefendTeam2BaseState.cpp
DefendTeam3BaseState.cpp
DefendTeamBaseState.cpp
DefendTeamShip.cpp
BaseVictoryState.cpp
BaseVictory.cpp
Kar_ePatrol.cpp
MissionMaps.cpp
MissionText.cpp
Linking...
Creating library Release/Kar_ePatrol.lib and object Release/Kar_ePatrol.exp

Kar_ePatrol.scr - 0 error(s), 0 warning(s)

"All systems check out. What course shall we set?"

Here's the mission map I used in the EEK Patrols:

   /*
   Legend:
   Starting Positions Ending Positions
   Start1 --> G End1 --> g
   Start2 --> H End2 --> h
   Start3 --> I End3 --> i
   Start4 --> J End4 --> j
   Start5 --> K End5 --> k
   Start6 --> L End6 --> l
   Start7 --> M End7 --> m
   Start8 --> N End8 --> n
   Start9 --> O End9 --> o
   Start10 --> P End10 --> p
   Start11 --> Q End11 --> q
   Start12 --> R End12 --> r
   Start13 --> S End13 --> s
   Start14 --> T End14 --> t
   Start15 --> U End15 --> u
   Start16 --> V End16 --> v
   Start17 --> W End17 --> w
   Start18 --> X End18 --> x
   Start19 --> Y End19 --> y
   Start20 --> Z End20 --> z

   Celestial Bodies:
   IceAsteroid --> *
   SmallAsteroid --> [ or a
   LargeAsteroid --> ] or A
   LightDustCloud --> < or d
   HeavyDustCloud --> > or D

   SmallBlackHole --> : or b
   LargeBlackHole --> , or B

   Fissure --> $ (No Damage)
   WormHole --> % (No Damage)
   Organian --> ^ (No Damage)
   Pulsar --> ~ (No Damage)

Stars:
   Sun1 --> (
   Sun2 --> )
   Sun3 --> !

   Nebula1 --> & or C
   Nebula2 --> ?

   Planets:
   Earth (Organia) --> 1
   Ringed Earth --> 2
   Mars --> 3
   Jupiter --> 4
   Dark Earth --> 5
   Saturn --> 6
   Night City --> 7
   Fire --> 8
   Ice --> 9
   Gas --> 0

   Ion Storm --> {

   */
   //
"Kar_ePatrol",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |......................M.......|",
" |.........................N....|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |......U..........g............|",
" |........Q.....................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..............................|",
" |............X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |...............Y..............|",
" |..Z.S.........................|",
"3|...........J..................|",
" |..............K...............|",
" |.........T.......L............|",
" |..............................|",
" |........................R.....|",
"4|..........................V...|",
" |.............G................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..........H.....I.............|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w.................|",
" |...........y..................|",
" |..O...........................|",
" |.....P........................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map -- Sun",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |......................M.......|",
" |.........................N....|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |......U..........g............|",
" |........Q.....................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..............................|",
" |............X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |...............Y..............|",
" |..Z.S.........................|",
"3|...........J..................|",
" |..............K...............|",
" |.........T.......L............|",
" |..............................|",
" |........................R.....|",
"4|..........................V...|",
" |.............G................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..........H.....I.............|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w.................|",
" |...........y...........(......|",
" |..O...........................|",
" |.....P........................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map -- Asteroids",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |......................M.......|",
" |....A.........a...........N...|",
" |........................A.....|",
"1|........*.....................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |......U..........g.......*....|",
" |........Q.....................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..........*.........a.........|",
" |...a........X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |...............Y........A.....|",
" |..Z.S....*.J..................|",
"3|.......*......K.............*.|",
" |....*......A.....L..a.........|",
" |.........T...............*....|",
" |.......a.......a...*..*.......|",
" |....A...................R.....|",
"4|..........................V...|",
" |.............G................|",
" |...................a..........|",
" |.....**...H.....I.............|",
" |.......................*.....a|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w........A........|",
" |...A.......y............*.....|",
" |.O............................|",
" |....a.P.......................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map -- Nebula",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |.C............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |.................g............|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..............................|",
" |............X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |...............Y..............|",
" |..............................|",
"3|..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"4|..............................|",
" |.............G................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..........H.....I.............|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w.................|",
" |...........y..................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",
"// Kar_ePatrol Map -- BlackHole",
" +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"1|..............................|",
" |.................h.i..........|",
" |......U..........g............|",
" |........Q.....................|",
" |..............................|",
"2|..............................|",
" |............X.....W...........|",
" |..............................|",
" |.......B.......Y..............|",
" |..Z.S.........................|",
"3|..............................|",
" |..............................|",
" |.........T....................|",
" |..............................|",
" |..............................|",
"4|........................R.....|",
" |.............G............V...|",
" |..............................|",
" |..........H.....I.............|",
" |..............................|",
"5|..............................|",
" |..........x w.................|",
" |...........y..................|",
" |..O...........................|",
" |.....P........................|",
"6|..............................|",
" +------------------------------+",
" 1 2 3 4 5 6",

Feel free to offer any map design suggestions.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2006, 10:20:20 am »

Beauty! Thanks!

I'm also just in the process of putting together the metaid-based pseudo-random number generator, so I can reintroduce the random terrain and ship placement

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #28 on:** September 02, 2006, 03:19:48 pm »

Some random suns have been shown to NOT be seeable by one side or the other. It has not been determined whether the drafter or draftee is the one who doesnt see the randomly generated suns in EEK missions, but it happens. So random sun generation is bad. Only have fixed sun maps, I dont see an issue with other randon terrain, course there was one eek mission i ran into a planet that wasnt there... At least I didnt see it, hehe. Everyone else did.

Riskyllama · « **Reply #29 on:** September 02, 2006, 03:24:18 pm »

The random suns have always been attributed to Karnak's revolutionary style of random number generation. If this works correctly though, it might be nice to try.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #30 on:** September 02, 2006, 05:03:53 pm »

Quote from: dizzy on September 02, 2006, 03:19:48 pm

Some random suns have been shown to NOT be seeable by one side or the other. It has not been determined whether the drafter or draftee is the one who doesnt see the randomly generated suns in EEK missions, but it happens. So random sun generation is bad. Only have fixed sun maps, I dont see an issue with other randon terrain, course there was one eek mission i ran into a planet that wasnt there... At least I didnt see it, hehe. Everyone else did.

Risky is right Diz, the problem with randomly generated terrain is the use of generators that are inconsistent across client/host, which includes the Taldren-supplied routine for generating random numbers. As long as a pseudo-random substitute is provided that is guaranteed to produce the same computation on host and non-host machines you're ok.

Ships and actual terrain are host-controlled, but visible terrain is calculated by each client seperately, hence the discrepancies. What is seen by one player isn't necessarily what is regarded as real by the host, and may not even be seen by the host, so all sorts of funky things can happen - including players looking to one player like they're flying unharmed through solid terrain, and players exploding when they hit terrain that is invisible to them.

But no worries, we'll keep the random-generated terrain limited to one or two scripts until it has proven itself stable in a real server, then migrate it to others.

dave

Riskyllama · « **Reply #31 on:** September 02, 2006, 07:10:59 pm »

Quote from: NuclearWessels on September 02, 2006, 05:03:53 pm

But no worries, we'll keep the random-generated terrain limited to one or two scripts until it has proven itself stable in a real server, then migrate it to others.

dave

why not cue up a bunch(if its easy enough) and start testing them on the forge. Also if it really is random, what are the chances one team will start inside a planet/sun/black hole?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #32 on:** September 02, 2006, 08:47:48 pm »

Quote from: Riskyllama on September 02, 2006, 07:10:59 pm

Quote from: NuclearWessels on September 02, 2006, 05:03:53 pm
But no worries, we'll keep the random-generated terrain limited to one or two scripts until it has proven itself stable in a real server, then migrate it to others.

dave

why not cue up a bunch(if its easy enough) and start testing them on the forge. Also if it really is random, what are the chances one team will start inside a planet/sun/black hole?

Don't worry, it won't be totally random - there will be checking in place to make sure that nothing spawns too close to something else (whether it's another terrain object or a ship).

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #33 on:** September 02, 2006, 09:11:20 pm »

Im not sure I caught that... You are saying that your random generation wont do what karnak's did?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #34 on:** September 02, 2006, 09:57:02 pm »

Quote from: dizzy on September 02, 2006, 09:11:20 pm

Im not sure I caught that... You are saying that your random generation wont do what karnak's did?

As long as I don't screw up

Yes - at least we've been able to deliberately/systematically produce the invisible terrain and eliminate it again.

dave

el-Karnak · « **Reply #35 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:02:56 pm »

Quote from: dizzy on September 02, 2006, 03:19:48 pm

Some random suns have been shown to NOT be seeable by one side or the other. It has not been determined whether the drafter or draftee is the one who doesnt see the randomly generated suns in EEK missions, but it happens. So random sun generation is bad. Only have fixed sun maps, I dont see an issue with other randon terrain, course there was one eek mission i ran into a planet that wasnt there... At least I didnt see it, hehe. Everyone else did.

Yeah, I will whack those randomly generated suns out. You also probably ran into the black planet like Jem did once in an PvP with WarSears. I can whack that planet out too if it becomes a problem.

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Topic: MISSION MAP MAKING CHALLENGE!!! (Read 5341 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

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el-Karnak

Topic: MISSION MAP MAKING CHALLENGE!!! (Read 5341 times)