Topic: Storm Season III Disengagement Rule Poll

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

When I hear that I think of how fun that cheese fest server must have been.

IMHO only Storm Season I was a better server than Storm Season II 

[Capt Jeff]

...you can force the person out, leaving you to take the hex, or win a vc point by killing them.  The killed player could then immediately come back and attempt again, giving you the possibility of multiple vc points.  If you kill them twice, you've earned 2 pts and lowered the DV twice... And there is the possibility of more PvP.

It's an interesting idea, but it would make the situation hard on new players because they would lose VPs for every ship they lose. 

It's also probably hard on new players watching a VP hex go to the enemy because they are no longer allowed to be defending that hex because they are banned from it.....

[Capt Jeff]

...you can force the person out, leaving you to take the hex, or win a vc point by killing them.  The killed player could then immediately come back and attempt again, giving you the possibility of multiple vc points.  If you kill them twice, you've earned 2 pts and lowered the DV twice... And there is the possibility of more PvP.

ya thats good.

That all depends on where you stand as per good or not.  Remember Plasma ballet anyone?  It can take up to a couple hours for a battle, all to get a shift of 1(and a 1 point for kill, if you killed him) just to have him come back an tie you up again for another battle.  Even in a shorter battle of say 45 minutes, how many missions could you have run in those 45 minutes?   The mirak would have run enough in 1 ship alone to change the DV by 15 or more if left unchecked.  Thus my support for DR.  I do understand that perhaps DR does not work for all cases, but in hot areas I think it is important.

God forbid they tie you up for MORE PvP   

Say the Mirak pilot kils you in a Lyran/Rom/Gorn ship and now you are forced out of that hex for 30/60 minutes.  Now they can flip to their hearts desire.   If you were allowed to get a ship more capable of drone defense (or remember not to chase a droner  ), and get back in there and attempt to kill them, you are tying them up from thier flipping festivals.  If you killed the Mirak the first time, he may get into a more PvP based ship  and make the next battle more interesting.  If they lose again, chances are they wont come right back again, leaving you to work the hex anyway.....

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

[Capt Jeff]

When I hear that I think of how fun that cheese fest server must have been.

IMHO only Storm Season I was a better server than Storm Season II 

Please Chuut, you'll make me blush.....not in front of the Klingons 

[Soreyes]

Make metal worth points and specialty ships worth points. A Z-DF should be worth a point imho.

 


In a lot of ways I kind of agree with making a Z-DF worth a point. But then again having a little ol Frigit worth a point seems a little funny.    

So what is a Z-DWD going to be worth? 2 points or 1 point.  All it is, is a Z-DF with some shealding

[el-Karnak]

...you can force the person out, leaving you to take the hex, or win a vc point by killing them.  The killed player could then immediately come back and attempt again, giving you the possibility of multiple vc points.  If you kill them twice, you've earned 2 pts and lowered the DV twice... And there is the possibility of more PvP.

It's an interesting idea, but it would make the situation hard on new players because they would lose VPs for every ship they lose. 

It's also probably hard on new players watching a VP hex go to the enemy because they are no longer allowed to be defending that hex because they are banned from it.....

I would consider losing VCs due to ship losses a major factor in incentizing the lesser PvP skilled player to avoid more PvP than would be case if there is no VC loss for losing a line ship.

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

Using PvP ships and the DR rules to clear out space for the follow-up hex flipper units is following fundamental military tactics. Basically, it follows the tactics used by the German Army in 1918 to break the trench warfare deadlock. They setup stormtrooper commando units (ie. PvPers) to eliminate the enemy strongpoints and force the enemy into a general retreat while avoiding becoming bogged down in taking out all pockets of enemy resistance. Then, the 2nd echelon of regular army units (ie. hex flippers) would follow and mop up the remaining enemy resistance (ie. hex flippers whittle down the enemy DVs to take the hex) in order to consolidate the gains (ie. max out the DVs of the taken hexes).


The term Stormtrooper refers to special military troops which were formed in the last year of World War I as the German army developed new methods of attacking enemy trenches, called "infiltration tactics". Men trained in these methods were known as in German as Sturmmann (literally "storm man" but usually translated as Stormtrooper), formed into companies of Sturmtruppen (Storm Troops). Other armies have used the term "assault troops", "shock troops" or fire teams for specialist soldiers who perform the infiltration tasks of stormtroopers.

With the withdrawal of Russia from World War I, the Germans were able to reinforce the Western Front with troops from the Eastern Front. This allowed them to take units out of the line and train in Hutier tactics (after Oskar von Hutier) to infiltrate and take trenches.

The methods developed to assault trenches during World War I before 1918 usually started with a lengthy artillery barrage all along the line followed by an assault from massed lines of infantry. Hutier suggested an alternate approach which consisted of these basic steps, combining some previous and some new attacks in a complex strategy:

A short artillery bombardment, featuring heavy shells mixed with numerous poison gas projectiles would concentrate on neutralizing the enemy front lines, but not to destroy them.
Under a creeping barrage, German shock troops (Sturmbatallione) would move forward and infiltrate the Allied defenses at previously identified weak points. They would avoid combat whenever possible and attempt to destroy or capture enemy headquarters and artillery strongpoints.
After the shock troops had done their job, German Army units, heavily equipped with machine guns, mortars and flamethrowers, would make heavy attacks along narrow fronts against any Allied strongpoints the shock troops missed. When the artillery was in place, officers could direct the fire wherever it was needed to accelerate the breakthrough.
In the last stage of the assault, regular infantry would mop up any remaining Allied resistance.
The new assault methods involved men rushing forwards in small groups using whatever cover was available and laying down covering fire for other groups in the same unit as they moved forwards. The new tactics, which were intended to achieve tactical surprise, were to attack the weakest parts of an enemy's line, bypass his strongpoints and to abandon the futile attempt to have a grand and detailed plan of operations controlled from afar. Instead, junior leaders could exercise initiative on the spot. Any enemy strong points which had not been over-run by stormtroopers could be attacked by second echelon troops following the stormtroopers.

On March 21, 1918 Germany launched a major offensive, "Operation Michael", against British and Commonwealth forces, using the new methods and tactics. Four successive German offensives followed, that of May 27 and for the first time in 4 years the stalemate of trench warfare was broken. However the German advance had stalled by July and the Allies began their Hundred Days Offensive. Ironically, General Hutier was too cautious in using his troops and if he had spent less time consolidating his gains he could have broken far enough through the Allied line to win the war.

source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtrooper

[762_XC]

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

The original idea (Fluf's) was that a PvP group would go in and clear a hex so flippers could run solos on top of them. Clearing an area of bad guys and bringing in the flippers is pretty consistent with that.

As a practical matter it's pretty much impossible to totally remove a determined enemy presence from a front, even with the radius rule, unless they have a severe numbers problem (or decide to go somewhere else).

In my experience most pilots fly either a PvP ship or a flipper and stick to it. There are a few that switch, myself included. I can say for my part that as long as I know the DR is working and effective I won't switch to a flipper unless the area is totally clear of bad guys. Again, usually that only happens if they are working on a different front, or are numerically challenged.

[KBF MalaK]

Make metal worth points and specialty ships worth points. A Z-DF should be worth a point imho.

 


In a lot of ways I kind of agree with making a Z-DF worth a point. But then again having a little ol Frigit worth a point seems a little funny.    

So what is a Z-DWD going to be worth? 2 points or 1 point.  All it is, is a Z-DF with some shealding

I was under the impression that a droner was 'the hex flipper' and the heavier 'energy' based ships we're the PvP'ers. Just a bit confused is all as I may be misusing my droner.

The whole discussion was about 'levelling' the playfield for noobs I just thought the droners would be reclassed into specialty ships as these little droners can take down cap ships if properly flown, and they favor inexperienced players.

I'm Soooooo confused.

[762_XC]

Actually Malak the only way a droner can beat a line ship is if the line ship makes a mistake. No one is ever going to learn PvP flying around in a droner.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Actually Malak the only way a droner can beat a line ship is if the line ship makes a mistake. No one is ever going to learn PvP flying around in a droner.

Tell that to Khan...

[762_XC]

I saw that film. There were mistakes. Small ones, but with a droner that's all you need.

He did have an asteroid base which helped him out quite a bit.

[Hexx]

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

So let's have a rule that says you can only have accounts for 1 race for the next server.
That would be cool.

[Dizzy]

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

So let's have a rule that says you can only have accounts for 1 race for the next server.
That would be cool.

BAN!!!

[FPF-DieHard]

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

So let's have a rule that says you can only have accounts for 1 race for the next server.
That would be cool.

What about 1 race per day?

[Hexx]

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

So let's have a rule that says you can only have accounts for 1 race for the next server.
That would be cool.

BAN!!!

Admittedly some players may be upset they can't continually switch to the best PVP ships with teh best powercurves
from year to year, but I think they'd be the same ones who feel it takes skill to chase down players using DNL's
And I can't think of anyone in our community that's like that...

[Dizzy]

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

So let's have a rule that says you can only have accounts for 1 race for the next server.
That would be cool.

BAN!!!

Admittedly some players may be upset they can't continually switch to the best PVP ships with teh best powercurves
from year to year, but I think they'd be the same ones who feel it takes skill to chase down players using DNL's
And I can't think of anyone in our community that's like that...

You are so short-sighted sometimes it astonishes me. Have you thought about what happens when the race you choose has their only resupply point WAYYYYYYYYYy far away from the front and all your friends in the other races with resupply near the front lines are having fun but you?

You cant limit a player to one race like we did when 50+ peeps were on the server. These days 20 peeps fill in the races that dont get played or need to depending on where the fighting is. Im not saying it cant be done... If you have a circular map and put all the races resupply points equadistant from the center area where all the fighting takes place then it's not a problem.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

What it boils down to is that I've seen this on the last few servers where multiple accounts are permitted.  People fly the PvP races until they force the other guys out or they log off, and then they get in their flipper race ships and start chewing up space, which to me is pretty cheesy, and not in the true spirit of the original disengagement rule.

So let's have a rule that says you can only have accounts for 1 race for the next server.
That would be cool.

Hmmm...

ME = long time PVP vet but nOOb Dynaverse flyer.  My first few days I flew my beloved Gorn race and made every mistake in the book...or out of it.  I flew a "fleet" of little ships and took ALien Encounter...etc etc etc... By day three i was flying a Gorn FF.  Now if you know anyting about the Gorn FF+ ... well ...    

 errrrrrrr

Now had I not been able to switch to Hydran I think I would have kissed this server off and gone back to Gamespy. 

[Hexx]

 Have you thought about what happens when the race you choose has their only resupply point WAYYYYYYYYYy far away from the front and all your friends in the other races with resupply near the front lines are having fun but you?

First- the action is always where Hexx is.
Second- I find it invigorating to actually have to plan my battles ,unlike thos who just use super ships with 20 spares to run down the bad guy and need resupply all the time.
(Of course no one like that here anymore)
Third - I have no friends, only people who can shoot &tbomb me and people who can only tbomb me.

Seriously though- it was an idea, half in jest (I know I'd actually like to see it, but most people wouldn't)

[Hexx]

Hmmm...

ME = long time PVP vet but nOOb Dynaverse flyer.  My first few days I flew my beloved Gorn race and made every mistake in the book...or out of it.  I flew a "fleet" of little ships and took ALien Encounter...etc etc etc... By day three i was flying a Gorn FF.  Now if you know anyting about the Gorn FF+ ... well ...    

 errrrrrrr

Now had I not been able to switch to Hydran I think I would have kissed this server off and gone back to Gamespy. 

Well at some point one has to realize certain missions work better with certain races 

AE is simple if you have a droner,
Doable as a Lyran (presumably about the same as Hydran)
And (I'd assume) tougher if you are using plasma (until fighters/PF's of course)

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

And (I'd assume) tougher if you are using plasma (until fighters/PF's of course)

Not if your a Romulan.  Cloak and fire, Cloak and fire.