Topic: Storm Season III Disengagement Rule Poll

[Capt Jeff]

Thanks all for the comments, keep them coming.


Hexx, do you work?   Many replies...lol

My map will also play into how the rules work.

More later.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

 
No disengagemnt on death has drawbacks of the victorious player getting jumped by the person he killed as soon as he comes out of mission. 10-15 minutes allows for a mission or 2(plasma races, a couple more for a droner) to be done without fear of running into the player you just killed when you come out.

Well if you did just kill them then they are in a smaller replacement ship and haven't resupplied it and their base must have been next door to where you fought    Usually it does take a few minutes at least to get a new ship and equip it, chances are it will be at least 15 minutes before you are drafted by the same player, although it might happen more often if your in a hex flipper as you will be running more missions..

[FPF-DieHard]

Chutt, why in th world are you trying to make this stuf WAY more complication than what Hexx is saying?  It seams you like are intentionally adding complications that don't exist to discredit his idea.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I was under the impression that a lot of players have got sick of the ridiculously large and complex rulesets that seem to come with a campaign nowadays? Seems to me that we have gone overboard with rules and took the fun out of the game for some people. I for one havent become a fan of the way recent server rules have been developed and implemented, prefered the simpler way of doing things.

But hey, maybe thats just me

I basically agree with you Grim, but I also recognize that a server totally devoid of a disengagement rule will not be popular with a significant portion of the community.  I also feel they are somewhat justified by this as hexflippers would tend to dominate.

Thats why I'm in favor of the system I proposed above.  If you are in a non hexflipper and solo you will never be forced to disengage if you fight to the death and if you run you are out of one hex for 30 minutes only.  If you seek some combat or hex flipping advantage by using a hexflipper, heavy metal, or a wingman, then you face the consequence of seeking such advantage with a stiffer penalty for failure, and even if you intended to go in solo but happened to draft a wing you can still opt to fight one at a time if all agree and thus avoid the greater disengagement penalty.

[KBF-Crim]

Well...appearantly.....there are only two classes of people who matter.....aces and noobs....

And only those who are good at PvP....

Thanks for proposing yet another rule that discourages me from even trying to bring some threat to the table...

All this is going to result in is aces having IMUNITY from players of lesser skill.....sorry...that kill doesnt count...even though if the tables were turned...the kill would count....

Sorry...you killed my DRED AND my HUMAN ESCORT with a D5D....kill dont count...

Hell...Khans spectacular kills....NONE OF THEM...would have counted under this proposed rule...oh...that's fair....sure it is...

It's elitest as hell....the Chuutbot for example....flying a Mirak line ship(which in anyone else's list would be classed a "droner")....would face no penalty ,what so ever, for losing a ship in PvP and be right back in that hex as soon as the shipyard cycles...

Oh yeah...that's not elitist in any way....

What we need is a way to quantify pilots SKILLS...regardless of what ship they fly...and apply a handicap system....

Until you do that....these rules are inherantly unfair to people of lesser skills....

In order to score points.....you are trying to force players into battle matches they will rarely,if ever....win...

Why should aces have imunity from ANYONE....due to the ship they are flying?

Why should Kahns kills NOT count?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chutt, why in th world are you trying to make this stuf WAY more complication than what Hexx is saying?  It seams you like are intentionally adding complications that don't exist to discredit his idea.

Not at all the case.  I was simply proposing a system that would do alot of what the disengagement rule is suppossed to be for while taking out undesired consequences to encourage flying of non-specialy and non heavy metal ships and to engage in more 1 v 1 PvP matches.  

If you fly a line type cruiser and fly solo it is actually very simple and rewards you.

[FPF-DieHard]

Chutt, why in th world are you trying to make this stuf WAY more complication than what Hexx is saying?  It seams you like are intentionally adding complications that don't exist to discredit his idea.

Not at all the case.  I was simply proposing a system that would do alot of what the disengagement rule is suppossed to be for while taking out undesired consequences to encourage flying of non-specialy and non heavy metal ships and to engage in more 1 v 1 PvP matches.  

If you fly a line type cruiser and fly solo it is actually very simple and rewards you.

You are proposing a set of Rules so complicated Dizzy would be proud 

[KBF-Crim]

Chutt, why in th world are you trying to make this stuf WAY more complication than what Hexx is saying?  It seams you like are intentionally adding complications that don't exist to discredit his idea.

Not at all the case.  I was simply proposing a system that would do alot of what the disengagement rule is suppossed to be for while taking out undesired consequences to encourage flying of non-specialy and non heavy metal ships and to engage in more 1 v 1 PvP matches.  

If you fly a line type cruiser and fly solo it is actually very simple and rewards you.

To wit.....you chuut....it rewards you...(not a dig)...

But that is your usual operation...

Unless you are willing to class ANY SHIP with more that two drone racks a "droner"...and ANY ship that carriers fighters as a "carrier" such a rule only beifits hydrans and mirak pilots...and Aces...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well...appearantly.....there are only two classes of people who matter.....aces and noobs....

And only those who are good at PvP....

Thanks for proposing yet another rule that discourages me from even trying to bring some threat to the table...

All this is going to result in is aces having IMUNITY from players of lesser skill.....sorry...that kill doesnt count...even though if the tables were turned...the kill would count....

Sorry...you killed my DRED AND my HUMAN ESCORT with a D5D....kill dont count...

Hell...Khans spectacular kills....NONE OF THEM...would have counted under this proposed rule...oh...that's fair....sure it is...

It's elitest as hell....the Chuutbot for example....flying a Mirak line ship(which in anyone else's list would be classed a "droner")....would face no penalty ,what so ever, for losing a ship in PvP and be right back in that hex as soon as the shipyard cycles...

Oh yeah...that's not elitist in any way....

What we need is a way to quantify pilots SKILLS...regardless of what ship they fly...and apply a handicap system....

Until you do that....these rules are inherantly unfair to people of lesser skills....

In order to score points.....you are trying to force players into battle matches they will rarely,if ever....win...

Why should aces have imunity from ANYONE....due to the ship they are flying?

Why should Kahns kills NOT count?

Holy over reaction batman!

All I was proposing Crim, is that if you make someone (in this case a "newbie")  immune from giviving up points for getting killed, you extend the same quality to their opponent.  A fight with a "newbie" becomes unimportant for PvP points in this way and a veteran might be more likely to engage them with a lesser ship making for a more even fight.  The idea is to encourage the newbies to give PvP a try and not be scared of it while at the same time not giving them any advantage campaign wise.  Imagine if Risky had called himself a "newbie", the guy had PvP skills from the start.  He could have been dusting veterans with immunity and collecting great rewards doing so.  By making them unable to claim points in return for them being immune to giving up points it most protects the veteran who isn't a PvP ace.

I have no problem with a veteran who doesn't see themself as a PvP pilot applying the "newbie" lable to themselves.  They give up the risk but they also give up the rewards.  Likewise I'd have no problem with a "newbie" deciding not to take on the label.  It would be each pilots choice.

[FPF-DieHard]

Why should Kahns kills NOT count?

Killing Metal ALWAYS should count for something, that is a good point.

[FPF-DieHard]

Chuuts point brings up something I brought up before.   You shouldn't be worth and VP points unles you've killed at least one pilot that server.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

To wit.....you chuut....it rewards you...(not a dig)...

But that is your usual operation...

"but that is your usual operation...."  Geez Crim that sure sounds like a dig to me     I'll let it pass beyond that mention however.

Unless you are willing to class ANY SHIP with more that two drone racks a "droner"...and ANY ship that carriers fighters as a "carrier" such a rule only beifits hydrans and mirak pilots...and Aces...

Not really as a Klingon line cruiser with 7 transporters can do some very quick missions for a line ship.  Other races have casual carrie and casual tender  line ships you may have forgotten.  I promise you i can run missions in a D7C at approximately the same rate I can in a Mirak CC, and my Z-CCH mission times and my D7W times are comaparable as well.

Worried about Kzinti ships with 4 drone racks? well give me Klingon arcs turn modes and transporters and I'll give up the racks, I can do fine in a Klingon ship under the Kzin flag 

[KBF-Crim]

Chuuts point brings up something I brought up before.   You shouldn't be worth and VP points unles you've killed at least one pilot that server.

I havent killed a pilot for a few servers now....why should I not count as a kill?

[KBF-Crim]

To wit.....you chuut....it rewards you...(not a dig)...

But that is your usual operation...

"but that is your usual operation...."  Geez Crim that sure sounds like a dig to me     I'll let it pass beyond that mention however.

Ahem....you fly mostly solo...yes?....you fly mostly "line" ships....yes?....you do this all the time to deepstrike...yes?....it's not really a secret...

Unless you are willing to class ANY SHIP with more that two drone racks a "droner"...and ANY ship that carriers fighters as a "carrier" such a rule only beifits hydrans and mirak pilots...and Aces...

Not really as a Klingon line cruiser with 7 transporters can do some very quick missions for a line ship.  Other races have casual carrie and casual tender  line ships you may have forgotten.  I promise you i can run missions in a D7C at approximately the same rate I can in a Mirak CC, and my Z-CCH mission times and my D7W times are comaparable as well.

Yes chuut...I'm sure you can....but I cannot...I freely admit it...

Worried about Kzinti ships with 4 drone racks?

You mean "line" ships?...worried?...no.....seeing an inherant rules bias in favor of Hydrans and Mirak "line" ships?....yes...

well give me Klingon arcs turn modes and transporters and I'll give up the racks, I can do fine in a Klingon ship under the Kzin flag 

I'm sure you'd do fine in just about any ship chuut....but there are those of us who do not...

You can fix "plain old suck"....

I'm only threat to a human pilot in a D5D or a D6U with cheesy ass fighters...

It seems as though I shouldnt be a "threat" at all....either my classing myself as a noob...or flying line crap I can hardly beat AI in...

[FPF-DieHard]

Chuuts point brings up something I brought up before.   You shouldn't be worth and VP points unles you've killed at least one pilot that server.

I havent killed a pilot for a few servers now....why should I not count as a kill?

Because you're a n00b

[KBF-Crim]

Chuuts point brings up something I brought up before.   You shouldn't be worth and VP points unles you've killed at least one pilot that server.

I havent killed a pilot for a few servers now....why should I not count as a kill?

Because you're a n00b

LOL...bastard...No...it's because I suck....I have hit a skill wall I have never broken through....

I understand tactics...I understand break ranges and EW....I understand weaknesses...

I just cant apply them...

I've tried other races...it just gets worse...

None of that has made me not want to play.....

Telling me I will no longer count for anything ...that just might do it...

[FPF-DieHard]

Chuuts point brings up something I brought up before.   You shouldn't be worth and VP points unles you've killed at least one pilot that server.

I havent killed a pilot for a few servers now....why should I not count as a kill?

Because you're a n00b

LOL...bastard...No...it's because I suck....I have hit a skill wall I have never broken through....

I understand tactics...I understand break ranges and EW....I understand weaknesses...

I just cant apply them...

I've tried other races...it just gets worse...

None of that has made me not want to play.....

Telling me I will no longer count for anything ...that just might do it...

Tow Hexx into a rock on the first day, that will count.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Telling me I will no longer count for anything ...that just might do it...

Tell me about it.... Granted, I missed a lot of SGO6, but I felt pretty damn useless as I only had, at most, 8 PvP fights the entire server and was only in on the kill of a K-FWL as part of a 3v3.

Add to that the loss of a M-FDXm in PvP (and a H-OM I j'inn'd RIGHT after losing a H-OS to a planet killer ) and my whole server was pretty lame....

[el-Karnak]

"One man's cheese, is another man's only hope for survival"  KBF-Crim

Only if you're opponent has Cheese, otherwise all you need is practice

Dude...I'll admit it....after almost 7 years of playing this game...I'm a mediocure player at best...I can barely beat the AI in a line ship...

Straight up....if practice where the answer...I'd be a frickin ace by now.......oh sure I like to play....hell...I love this game......but I stopped deluding myself a year or two ago....

I found this white paper to be quite useful for getting the basics down:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163361467.0.html

[el-Karnak]

Would the 1 point VC be for all kills?  If it was, this might discourage pilots from just kamikazing their ships at opponents so that they can stay in hex.  Also, my thought here is that if a hex is being fiercely fought over, all pilots should grab a better PvP ship before they enter the area.   You get caught trying to run missions under your opponent with a droner or small-drafting frigate you should pay the consequences.   Same 1 point VC for everyone, none of that hull size comparison crap! Or any other complicated PvP VC system.

I agree if you grab a droner and get caught you should pay the consequences, but I am strongly in favor of heavy metal being worth more PvP points for the very same reason, you want to get into that BCH or DN, you should also be willing to pay the consequences should you get blown up.  Whats good for the goose......