Topic: Evil Dave mission feedback thread

[Dizzy]

I don't mind it when ROM AIs cloak.  But I HATE it when static installations cloak.  SBs, FRDs, BSs...should not be able to cloak.  If you think about the cloaking device it's trying to emulate here.  Its the one that was shown in Balance of Terror, which is why we can still "track" the Romulans.  Cloaking a stationary facility makes absolutely no sense.  The defense officer of an attacking ship would likely be saying, "huh, I wonder where it went?" before hitting it yet again.  A Cloak should provide no defense for a Static Facility.

Sgo6 installations cant cloak. You cant kill romulan bases that cloak thats why on sg list they dont.

[NuclearWessels]

There is one mission (sorry don't have the name) where you will defeat one group of enemies and then have a lone enemy ship fighting a pirate just out of sensor range. This is too much like the runner mission imho as you spend two minutes just trying to reach your next target. Kind of annoying.

OK, finally found where this was hiding - the straggler group has been brought back within reasonable range of the rest of the scrap.

The Doomsday Machine is absolutely ridiculous and should never be seen again. I assume that can be handled via shiplist.

It has been eliminated scriptside now (except for Tracey's AlienEncounter mission, but I haven't got the source for that), so should no longer be a problem even if it is in the shiplist.

dave

[KBFLordKrueg]

I can add an asterisk or something to the mission names for those that strip AI, so folks can identify an appropriate one for redrafts.

dave

That would be an acceptable compromise to not having AI stripping on every mission.  

[762_XC]

There is one mission (sorry don't have the name) where you will defeat one group of enemies and then have a lone enemy ship fighting a pirate just out of sensor range. This is too much like the runner mission imho as you spend two minutes just trying to reach your next target. Kind of annoying.

OK, finally found where this was hiding - the straggler group has been brought back within reasonable range of the rest of the scrap.

The Doomsday Machine is absolutely ridiculous and should never be seen again. I assume that can be handled via shiplist.

It has been eliminated scriptside now (except for Tracey's AlienEncounter mission, but I haven't got the source for that), so should no longer be a problem even if it is in the shiplist.

dave

Woohoo! Thanks Dave.

[NuclearWessels]

...
I would like to see the ai marine count bolstered a bit however, as captures shouldn't be so easy when ai is used in PvP.

I'll leave that one for the admin to bolster in the shiplist -- resetting ship stores is a bit more kludgy, though it can certainly be done.

I'd also like to see the ai always start behind the player so that it wouldn't run out and get killed before the player has a chance to arm his ship and defend it.  If the ai started far enough behind a player can tractor it and make it wait before charging ahead into certain early death,
...

Actually I'd intended to go through the maps and set it up so the majority start out this way -- this is probably as good a time as any to do it.  <takes deep breath and looks at the map list >

dave

[Dizzy]

There is one mission (sorry don't have the name) where you will defeat one group of enemies and then have a lone enemy ship fighting a pirate just out of sensor range. This is too much like the runner mission imho as you spend two minutes just trying to reach your next target. Kind of annoying.

OK, finally found where this was hiding - the straggler group has been brought back within reasonable range of the rest of the scrap.

The Doomsday Machine is absolutely ridiculous and should never be seen again. I assume that can be handled via shiplist.

It has been eliminated scriptside now (except for Tracey's AlienEncounter mission, but I haven't got the source for that), so should no longer be a problem even if it is in the shiplist.

dave

Whoah, the doomsday machine is in a mission that spawns monsters or pirate bases or pirate ships or an enemy freighter convoy. I LOVE THIS  MISSION! The doomsday machine is a monster and will be removed and a few new more balanced monsters added. I dont want to see this mission get ditched, although I'd like to see it have 2x of these AI spawn points one each near each opposing side.

On a seperate note, there are several missions that start each side out in excess of 100k which is too far. And one that starts you as close as 45k. Both are bad. Optimal starting ranges are between 80 and 100k for the lead player starts and any other spawn points behind those.

Map size... Small maps go the way of the Dodo bird. Medium maps are ok, but increase the legth or width by 50% for a rectangular map instead of square. Do this with the larger maps as well. Varied terrain is nice. Dust clouds are cool. Have you played TG missions? Some of her maps are very cool. I dont know how much you plan to get into map making, but I'd also like to see some asteroids in nebulas... that'd be neat. Most tof the default ED maps are fine, just the sizes need be adjusted. As a side note, Karnak invented a unique random terrain feature, but strangely, suns sometimes DO NOT show for one of the opposing sides. I do not know why. This has been confirmed on many occasions. So beware of random terrain generation!

Hrmmm... I'll really need to get into this another time... how much time do i have to come up with a list of suggestions for you b4 u get into editing mode?

[NuclearWessels]

Whoah, the doomsday machine is in a mission that spawns monsters or pirate bases or pirate ships or an enemy freighter convoy. I LOVE THIS  MISSION! The doomsday machine is a monster and will be removed and a few new more balanced monsters added. I dont want to see this mission get ditched, although I'd like to see it have 2x of these AI spawn points one each near each opposing side.

The mission itself hasn't been ditched, but what gets randomly generated has changed somewhat -- more emphasis on pirate ships/convoys and less emphasis on monsters/bases.

On a seperate note, there are several missions that start each side out in excess of 100k which is too far. And one that starts you as close as 45k. Both are bad. Optimal starting ranges are between 80 and 100k for the lead player starts and any other spawn points behind those.

Yeah, I'm going through this, but the map editing is a major pain in the hindquarters.  Picture 10-20 maps per mission, for each of a couple of dozen missions, trying to remember which letters of the alphabet correspond to which ship start points, where the maps look like this:

   "// Met_10Patrol Map -- Asteroids",
   " +____1____2____3____4____5____6+",
   " |..............................|",
   " |........<.................,...|",
   " |..............................|",
   " |.................]............|",
   "1|..[.....*..............[......|",
   " |.................h.i..........|",
   " |.......*...[.....g.......*....|",
   " |....<....>....................|",
   " |.....>.......<.....[..........|",
   "2|...[......*...................|",
   " |......[.....X..Y..............|",
   " |.....[...>....W.......[....[..|",
   " |.........<..[.*...............|",
   " |................<..*...<......|",
   "3|.......[..Z.>.]......]....]...|",
   " |...*.........[...*>.z.........|",
   " |..........>.[.[...*...........|",
   " |.....]...<....].[..*.]........|",
   " |..]....]........[..>....<.....|",
   "4|..........G[..............]...|",
   " |.............I......].........|",
   " |.........]....................|",
   " |......*...H.........[...<.....|",
   " |...........................]..|",
   "5|..................>....*......|",
   " |..........x w.....[...........|",
   " |......<....y..................|",
   " |..................>...........|",
   " |........................*.....|",
   "6|..............................|",
   " +------------------------------+",
   "      1    2    3    4    5    6",
 

Map size... Small maps go the way of the Dodo bird. Medium maps are ok, but increase the legth or width by 50% for a rectangular map instead of square. Do this with the larger maps as well. Varied terrain is nice. Dust clouds are cool. Have you played TG missions? Some of her maps are very cool. I dont know how much you plan to get into map making, but I'd also like to see some asteroids in nebulas... that'd be neat. Most tof the default ED maps are fine, just the sizes need be adjusted. As a side note, Karnak invented a unique random terrain feature, but strangely, suns sometimes DO NOT show for one of the opposing sides. I do not know why. This has been confirmed on many occasions. So beware of random terrain generation!

Hrmmm... I'll really need to get into this another time... how much time do i have to come up with a list of suggestions for you b4 u get into editing mode?

Well, as I said, map editing is a major pain.  (Especially since if you screw up a character someplace you don't get any kind of error message, the mission just never gets offered, so testing is a pain as well.)

The semester kicks off in earnest Thursday, so tomorrow will likely be my last big day of editing for awhile.  I'll slowly work my way through them for size fixes after that, but it'll be mostly when the mood is right

dave

[KBFLordKrueg]

Is there a way to rotate maps more often?
I've in case where you're pounding out mission in one hex, the map, and usually the entire mission seem to be the same.
Over and over and over and over......
Any way to get more mission and/or map variety more often?

[NuclearWessels]

Is there a way to rotate maps more often?
I've in case where you're pounding out mission in one hex, the map, and usually the entire mission seem to be the same.
Over and over and over and over......
Any way to get more mission and/or map variety more often?

No and yes -- a script will always pick the same map in the same hex, since the map choice is based on what kind of hex the server says it is. 

The only way to add variety within a single hex is to generate some/all of the terrain on a map pseudo-randomly, but you have to be very careful doing this to avoid having ghost terrain in multi-player situations.    (The built-in pseudo-random number generator in the API can generate different values for the drafter than the draftees, so their maps visually look different, but the drafter's random terrain is treated as the "real" terrain for everyone, leading to the ghost terrain problems.)

It can be done, just a matter of putting together a pseudo-random generator of our own (based on things like the bpvs and metaids of all the drafted ships).  In fact I do that for a couple of custom scripts Hexx requested where black holes and other terrain randomly spawn during the course of the mission.  I should get around to applying it on a larger scale, but want to be sure it's fairly bug free before then.

EDIT: the alternative is to ensure more missions get offered in each hex, and that the maps for different missions are very different, so at least you're rotating between them.  But even there, the art of controlling/predicting which missions actually get offered when isn't very well understood.


dave

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Overall missions were good except for AlienEncounter, not sure what substance was being abused when that little number was written up.

I'm not sure what the Doomsday machine actually did here.  I thin in SFC1 it actually killed you if you got too close.  But it was a thrill to see it again.  The AI's mostly ignored it.

I'm all for stripping out AI's in PVP.  Don't need the Keystone Cops cavorting around space when a serious battle is about to happen.  It's too bad the "mulitiple tractor" bug from SFC1 still isnt in effect.  Might be fun to tractor a few ships and roll around like a tumbleweed.

And THAT too would get old...

I think we need a Frylock monster...y'know...a giant floating cup of fries with twin andro beams coming from its eyes...

errrr

[FPF-DieHard]

Big maps are good, they make the Post-2280 "Cheese and Chase" fights last longer 

Too bad we can't change the map size to match the Era . . . or can we? 

[NuclearWessels]

Big maps are good, they make the Post-2280 "Cheese and Chase" fights last longer 

Too bad we can't change the map size to match the Era . . . or can we? 

Theoretically it could be done:
  - have each mission use different size maps for different terrain subtypes, e.g. maps for asteroid1 are smaller than for asteroid2, which are in turn smaller than asteroid3, etc
  - start out using the small terrain subtypes on the dyna map, then use DB edits during a cleaning to switch to the next subtype up

I've already tested and confirmed that an individual mission script can store maps of multiple sizes, so this should work, it just means editing all the maps appropriately (dave runs away screaming again)

Actually, Met_ED17PatrolEnemy does this (well, in the opposite direction) already.  As the subtypes go up the map sizes go down - so for asteroid/blackhole/nebula hexes of subtype 6 the maps are actually tiny, whereas at subtype 1 they're normal sized.


dave

[NuclearWessels]

Heh, I've found my cop out!

All you need to create mission maps is a text editor or browser and a quick rundown on the formatting rules, so I've posted a thread to request folks take a stab at creating the maps they'd like to see!

Dunno if anyone will take me up on it, but all attempts are HUGELY appreciated!

thanks!
dave

[Dizzy]

Karnak, post our SGODev maps. Your maps rock. I wanna see em.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I can add an asterisk or something to the mission names for those that strip AI, so folks can identify an appropriate one for redrafts.

dave

That would be an acceptable compromise to not having AI stripping on every mission.  

A good compromise.  the gangbang crew could get their choice of offered missions as could redrafters and those seeking 1 v 1 with no ai, but they aren't guarenteed an easy gangbang.  If a redraft or challenge is the case both sides can wait until the appropriate mission is offered.

[762_XC]

Who exactly is the "gangbang crew"?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Who exactly is the "gangbang crew"?

Just about everyone myself included.  Not a criticism against any individuals, just pointing out an aspect of the current style of play.  Players will use what is effective for the most part and there is nothing wrong with that, but if you want to make the enjoyable for other styles of play, you have to facilitate it by making it effective. 

I was never a big fan of the disengagement rule, but I've come to realize that it is essential to have it in some form on most servers to facilitate a style of play of many in the community, but by the same token we must try and work around certain aspects that take other styles of play away.

Under the current style there is still an advantage to hex-flipping, even with a radius, but there isn't as much advantage for a pilot who is seeking out 1 v 1 PvP, I've been racking my brain to come up with ideas to this dilema. 

[762_XC]

No wingmen allowed in the Mosh Pit.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

No wingmen allowed in the Mosh Pit.

Disagree I think an area with smaller ships only is where I'd be most tempted to fly with a wing for 2 reasons:

#1 any base assaults would definately need more than 1 pilot

#2 If my wing is in a small ship I have a better chance of killing him with T-bombs 

[el-Karnak]

Who exactly is the "gangbang crew"?

Just about everyone myself included.  Not a criticism against any individuals, just pointing out an aspect of the current style of play.  Players will use what is effective for the most part and there is nothing wrong with that, but if you want to make the enjoyable for other styles of play, you have to facilitate it by making it effective. 

I was never a big fan of the disengagement rule, but I've come to realize that it is essential to have it in some form on most servers to facilitate a style of play of many in the community, but by the same token we must try and work around certain aspects that take other styles of play away.

Under the current style there is still an advantage to hex-flipping, even with a radius, but there isn't as much advantage for a pilot who is seeking out 1 v 1 PvP, I've been racking my brain to come up with ideas to this dilema. 

We can have a couple missions that only draft one on one and denote them with special symbol in the mission name.