Topic: Evil Dave mission feedback thread

[Dfly]

I do have some reports witht he ED17Patrol_Enemy mission.  I had multiple times noted that particular mission for not drafting your 2 wingmen.  It often drafted only 1 guy along, not the 2 that were there.  The ED10Patrol_enemy also did the same often enough.

PS: I never flew a mission with that planet eater monster the whole server, but did do Alien Encounter dozens of times. and I was in a lot of missions.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I personally like the variety od ai help in some of the patrols, it helps out a guy who gets jumped by multiple foes or bigger ships and makes for more interesting fights.  That being said, I think it is a hinderance to redrafting missions when players drop.  Perhpas we could have one mission specially marked PvP which is offered in friendly space and will strip ai.  Then when a redraft is necessary, a defending player can pop off on on a hex until they get that mission to ensure a viable redraft.

[762_XC]

Why just one mission? Every mission needs to strip for PvP and draft 3v3.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Why just one mission? Every mission needs to strip for PvP and draft 3v3.

Draft for 3v3 agreed, strip ai I don't agree.  I like ai in the mix on occassion and am in favor of some stripping and some non-stripping missions.  I just think for redrafting purposes one mission should be easily identified as a stripping mission.

[762_XC]

Could not disagree more strongly. PvP should be based on skill, not luck.

[Hexx]

Could not disagree more strongly. PvP should be based on skill, not luck.

Unfortunately the skill it's currently based on is who's the best at assembling 3 ship killer fleets

I'd agree with Chuut- the AI adds some unpredictability(good thing) but missions should be able to be identified for
the all important redrafts.

[762_XC]

What happens when you have a classic 1v1 matchup, say Z-CC vs K-D7C, and one side gets two heavies and the other gets a freighter?

No frakking way. AI in PvP missions is pure crap.

P.S. That's still skill Hexx.

[Hexx]

P.S. That's still skill Hexx.

I'm assuming you're joking as it would actually be complimentary fleet lists,
at least I hope you don't regard the ability to match plasma PF tenders with DNs and an escort as some kind of
vaunted skill set...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Unfortunately the skill it's currently based on is who's the best at assembling 3 ship killer fleets

Or the biggest baddest ship in the case of 1 v 1

Nice to see the loner who gets jumped by 2-3 live pilots get a chance at a more even fight with ai included, it might not be much sometimes. but better than nothing.

[762_XC]

Why is that nice?

Part of the strategy of the game is in asset allocation. If you homogenize all ships with uneven AI draws you remove or reduce a stategy element in the game.

What's even worse is an even matchup which is made uneven by a frakked up draw, and a player who should be fighting it out has to disengage because he got the short straw. 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Why is that nice?

Part of the strategy of the game is in asset allocation. If you homogenize all ships with uneven AI draws you remove or reduce a stategy element in the game.

What's even worse is an even matchup which is made uneven by a frakked up draw, and a player who should be fighting it out has to disengage because he got the short straw. 

Yes PART of the strategy, it shouldn't be the overwhelming part in my view.  That why I'm for a mix of stripping and not stripping.  Say 50/50.  Then you get roughly 50% no ai, 16 2/3s% where ai is equal for both sides (in a 1 v 1) 16 2/3% ai favors attacker and 16 2/3% ai favors defender.  So in an equal match you get roughly a 67 2/3% chance of a basically equal fight in a 1 v 1.  The 33 1/3% chance of an totally unbalanced fight is more than offset IMHO by the chance at a better fight if gangbanged by a foe or jumped by an unequal ship class.  Not everyone likes to fly big ships and not everyone likes to fly in groups.  Chances are the bigger ships and groups will still prevail but it makes for better combats and greater fun, despite the bitching about ai.  Also there can be a certain amount of skill in using your ai to its best advantage, not always so but I've found it to be frequently the case. 

I would like to see the ai marine count bolstered a bit however, as captures shouldn't be so easy when ai is used in PvP.  I'd also like to see the ai always start behind the player so that it wouldn't run out and get killed before the player has a chance to arm his ship and defend it.  If the ai started far enough behind a player can tractor it and make it wait before charging ahead into certain early death,

For example: Your match with Warsears and Duck was much more challenging due to ai involvement, you still won but it made for a much better fight.

[Dizzy]

Oh yeah - would anyone be heartbroken if I turned off the AI cloaking for Romulans?  Or at least made it less common...

dave

There was great consideration taken on where the romulan empire was going to be placed on the sg6 map because the AI always cloaks. If you could setup a third of your missions where they dont, or have every second ship in the misssion not cloak... somthing like that, that'd be good.

[TraumaTech]

Why is that nice?

Part of the strategy of the game is in asset allocation. If you homogenize all ships with uneven AI draws you remove or reduce a stategy element in the game.

What's even worse is an even matchup which is made uneven by a frakked up draw, and a player who should be fighting it out has to disengage because he got the short straw. 

Yes PART of the strategy, it shouldn't be the overwhelming part in my view.  That why I'm for a mix of stripping and not stripping.  Say 50/50.  Then you get roughly 50% no ai, 16 2/3s% where ai is equal for both sides (in a 1 v 1) 16 2/3% ai favors attacker and 16 2/3% ai favors defender.  So in an equal match you get roughly a 67 2/3% chance of a basically equal fight in a 1 v 1.  The 33 1/3% chance of an totally unbalanced fight is more than offset IMHO by the chance at a better fight if gangbanged by a foe or jumped by an unequal ship class.  Not everyone likes to fly big ships and not everyone likes to fly in groups.  Chances are the bigger ships and groups will still prevail but it makes for better combats and greater fun, despite the bitching about ai.  Also there can be a certain amount of skill in using your ai to its best advantage, not always so but I've found it to be frequently the case. 


For example: Your match with Warsears and Duck was much more challenging due to ai involvement, you still won but it made for a much better fight.

i am sorry but i disagree whole heartedly......if the ai's are to be involved in a pvp match.....they should be "even "in every respect and not balanced unevenly.where is the fun in that??The challange is to beat a live player,not be frustrated becasue u have to run,becasue your opponent has a slightly better ship and an ai helper too. Now if it is a hex flipping mission,then sure,as the ai's are easy to beat up ,so u need(shipwise ) to unbalance it to make it interesting.u also stated"despite the bitching about ai. " what more proof do you need than basically most of the community saying "NO". I PREFER THE PVP MATCHES BECAUSE I WANT TO FIGHT THE PLAYER...NOT THE AI.I also can't count the number of times either a set up 3v3 or just plain getting jumped by the other side in which one of my wings wasn't drafted,which usually meant we say "we lost a wing",then we'd have to leave the map giving both points and a dv shift to the other side because the mission wanted to give u an ai helper(usually a stupid one) and leave your other wing on the sideline(now that's frustration).i think it is safe to say re: PVP players   we r there to fight real players,not the ai's,they have no place in a pvp match except maybe when it involves a 2v1 or 3v2,then you get a chance to show your skill with an ai as a helper ......just my 2 cents worth

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I have no problem with equal ai given to each side, just not sure if that is programable.  Of course if one side has players that fill a slot that would be taken by an ai they would get one less ai.  In no circumstance should an ai ally bump a live wing.

[FPF-DieHard]

What t00l said, the "AI Lottery" has ruined more potential great fights than I can remember.

All PATROLS should strip AI.   Other misisons, assaults for example, should leave them in.

[Riskyllama]

I'd like to see patrols that are different and random like now, but say maybe one or two misions in the list entitled Fleet engagement that are guarenteed to strip all AI for pvp or throw you at a big fleet(in order to prevent people from taking it over patrols when not necessary).

[el-Karnak]

I think ideally they
should not cloak when used as an AI ally against AI

I think this is right.

should cloak (sometimes) when used as an AI ally against humans (though maybe not...)

I would keep all allied ROM AI as un-cloak in both PvAI and PvP missions.

cloak when used as an enemy AI. (especially if opposed to Lyran)

 

Well, there's 2 school of thoughts here. In PvAI missions, ROM enemy AI that cloaks is a real pain except for Lyrans. But, I'm pretty sure that we can detect if the drafter is a Lyran so that can be fixed so that enemy ROM AI is uncloaked. This creates a racial flavor that drives strategy similar to sides planning how they can avoid ISC AI.

Or, just make all the ROM AI un-cloaked under all circumstances.  Cloaking device may be best utilized as a PvP tool anyway.

[Lieutenant_Q]

I don't mind it when ROM AIs cloak.  But I HATE it when static installations cloak.  SBs, FRDs, BSs...should not be able to cloak.  If you think about the cloaking device it's trying to emulate here.  Its the one that was shown in Balance of Terror, which is why we can still "track" the Romulans.  Cloaking a stationary facility makes absolutely no sense.  The defense officer of an attacking ship would likely be saying, "huh, I wonder where it went?" before hitting it yet again.  A Cloak should provide no defense for a Static Facility.

[NuclearWessels]

Well, frankly guys, I'm going to take the cop-out approach on the AI stripping:  I'll have some missions that stip 'em, some missions that don't, land let the admin of each server decide what kind of a mix they want.   My inclination is to leave the 8 listed patrols as the AI strippers, since the bulk of the others are assault/defense missions where the key target is a major ai element anyway.

I can add an asterisk or something to the mission names for those that strip AI, so folks can identify an appropriate one for redrafts.

dave

[el-Karnak]

Well, frankly guys, I'm going to take the cop-out approach on the AI stripping:  I'll have some missions that stip 'em, some missions that don't, land let the admin of each server decide what kind of a mix they want.   My inclination is to leave the 8 listed patrols as the AI strippers, since the bulk of the others are assault/defense missions where the key target is a major ai element anyway.

I can add an asterisk or something to the mission names for those that strip AI, so folks can identify an appropriate one for redrafts.

dave

Yeah, that's what I do. No server admin. takes the whole mission pack to start with.

They just cherry-pick what they want.