Topic: Evil Dave mission feedback thread

[762_XC]

Overall the mission pack was very good! Stability was excellent and the missions themselves were enjoyable for the most part.

The difficulty level was very high. I suspect this must have intimidated more than a few n00bs. Most of the newer players were not happy with the idea of taking solo missions. The 1v1 and 2v2 basic patrols should comprise about 2/3 of the missions drawn imho. The difficulty on the fleet actions can be left where it is as long as the basic patrols show up more often.

I DID like the fact that everything shows up as "patrol" so you can't cherry pick. I like that a lot.

Priority should be given to ensuring that all patrol missions strip for PvP and all missions draft 3v3. MetED10PatrolEnemy will only draft one wingman. Not sure if there are others.

Did notice a few cases of timewarping, but the frequency was bearable.

There is one mission (sorry don't have the name) where you will defeat one group of enemies and then have a lone enemy ship fighting a pirate just out of sensor range. This is too much like the runner mission imho as you spend two minutes just trying to reach your next target. Kind of annoying.

The Doomsday Machine is absolutely ridiculous and should never be seen again. I assume that can be handled via shiplist.

Planet assaults could be made a little harder but not to the scale of the old 45-60 minute Evil Dave one. Maybe just add a base station (not a BATS).

Base assaults were good - I like the extra AI generated. Bases should be hard.

Thanks again Dave for putting together an enjoyable pack 

[NuclearWessels]

Thank ya sir - glad to get the feedback.

I'm pasting some of Chuut's thoughts here as well, just so we've got this all in one place.

My major criticism would be that there were too many missions vs ai with multiple ships, this wasn't kind to non-aces and wasn't so fun for vets either.

Additionally I think that having all the patrols have the same mission names was good, but Planetary and base assaults should have their own names as the target of the mission would be known and they aren't really patrols.

Also, I think having the Orion base in some patrols was kinda unneeded.

Also freighter ai help on the patrols where you get control of an ai ship is kinda silly.

...
The planetary assault missions were good too, making it very difficult for a solo droner to pull them off alone.

[NuclearWessels]

Well, the good news is this server allowed us to identify a lot of time warp, ship placement, and drafting issues across the various missions.

One of the unfortunate side effects was that a lot of the buggy scripts got pulled, leaving things a little on the dry side variety wise.  Apologies for that!  Hopefully with the kinks ironed out we should see a better mix of 3/2/1 AI opposition fleets (pre-stripping)

I believe (we'll see how well this stands up of course) that I've fixed all the time warp and drafting bugs we caught during the server (unfortunately a couple of those fixes were last night, so they aren't on the current Forge pack, sorry Bonk!)

I'll go though the pack over the next few days, addressing things folks bring up here
 - assault missions will be given an appropriate name to distinguish them from the patrols
 - the monsters are getting pulled from the patrol missions (but a new monster mission is added, see below)
 - the pirate base should appear MUCH less frequently in missions
 - I'll fix the ship placement issues folks bring up, though I'll probably miss a couple just because of the number of maps to check

Right now there is a core of 4 friendly-space and 4 enemy-space patrols that do 3v3 drafting + AI stripping, plus the collection of assault/defense missions and a handful of specialty items.

Just to run down what we've got, here's a core set of missions that [should] now handle 3 v 3 drafting.

(The default sides shown below are the sides before any drafting of humans and AI stripping takes place).

3v3 Drafting, AI stripping in effect

Friendly space:
 ED17Patrol - defaults to 1 v 1
 ED10PiratesInTheMiddle - defaults to 2 v 2 plus pirate
 ED5PlayerFleet - defaults to 3 v 2
 ED10Patrol - defaults to 3 v 2 plus pirate

Enemy space:
 ED17PatrolEnemy - defaults to 1 v 1
 ED6Patrol - defaults to 2 v 2
 ED5FleetAction - defaults to 3 v 3
 ED10PatrolEnemy - defaults to 3 v 3 plus pirate

3v3 Drafting, NO AI stripping

Assault Missions
 The 3 standard base assaults: NW7BaseStationAssault, NW7BattleStationAssault, NW7StarbaseAssault
 The standard planet assaults:  NW9PlanetaryAssault, NW18HomeworldAssault
 The SG planet assault versions, with orbiting installations: DizzyAssault, DizzyHvyAssault
 A time-limited, damage-only planet assault:  NW9TimedAssault
 The standard shipyard and asteroid base assaults: NW8ShipAssault, NW26AsteroidAssault

Defense Missions
 NWBasePlacement: a draft-friendly version of starbase construction
 NW16ShipDefense: the usual shipyard defense
 NW16PlanetDefense: a 3v3 planet defense with orbiting shipyards, the defender can take spares off the FRDs
 NW27AsteroidDefense:the usual asteroid base defense mission

Patrol Missions
 NW2HoldingAction: the usual holding action/data gathering mission
 NW7CourierIntercept: the one where the attacker is out to kill/cap the courier ship

New Missions

There are also a collection of new missions ready, all of them handle 3-v-3 drafting:

 ED10Monster: unlike the std version, this monster mission does impact the DV of a hex and allows 3v3 drafting.  It parallels the SFB scenario in that you can close to point blank range, scan the monster, and you might learn an alternative technique to kill the beastie or establish communication with it.  This mission strips AI ships but not the monster.

 NW7Scout: more of a survey mission, this has you scanning a collection of enemy asteroids/moons + handling the enemy

 NW7ConvoyRaid: like the traditional convoy raid, but handles 3v3 drafting

 ED10Colonization: this one has a neutral planet, hostile to both sides, who are racing to capture/hold it.  This mission strips AI ships but not the colony.

 NW7OutpostSweep: here you're charged with wiping out a collection of enemy listening posts along the border, and of course dealing with the enemy defender

 NW7Gauntlet: this one might not be appropriate for a server, or might be restricted to a very narrow set of hex types: in this the map is VERY long and VERY narrow, and you're tasked with clearing a path for a future assault.  This involves flying down the length of the map wiping out scattered enemy defsats and ships.

 ED10FleetAssault: This is a massive engagement, all 6 teams are padded to 5 ships each, plus a group of pirates are thrown in, giving 15 ships versus 15 ships versus the pirates.

[762_XC]

Dave needs karma!

[762_XC]

Question Dave - Do some of the missions draft based on the combined BPV of the players in mission? It seemed small ship drafting large ship would get a heavier draw than 2 small ships.

[NuclearWessels]

Question Dave - Do some of the missions draft based on the combined BPV of the players in mission? It seemed small ship drafting large ship would get a heavier draw than 2 small ships.

That was the case in the SG pack, but I've had to ditch that and go back to more conventional drafting because of the out-of-era problems.  I'd love to have the drafting based on the combined bpv to avoid the little-ship-drafts exploit, but the $#%@ time warp issue makes it impractical so far.

dave

[762_XC]

Good, I like the little ship draft exploit. 

[NuclearWessels]

Good, I like the little ship draft exploit. 

Lol - a pet peeve of mine, but I can cope 

dave

[el-Karnak]

Good, I like the little ship draft exploit. 

Lol - a pet peeve of mine, but I can cope 

dave

Actually, I encourage the little ship draft exploit in EEK missions because the whole intent is for players in big ships to grab a wing. Just like in RL navy where a big ship would not go off into battle without an escort.

Those navies that sent off big ships into a combat zone without an escort, like the Bismark in May, 1941, usually did not make it back home. 

[NuclearWessels]

...
Actually, I encourage the little ship draft exploit in EEK missions because the whole intent is for players in big ships to grab a wing. Just like in RL navy where a big ship would not go off into battle without an escort.

Those navies that sent off big ships into a combat zone without an escort, like the Bismark in May, 1941, usually did not make it back home. 

I like the concept -- ideally I'd like a time-warp-free way of setting it up so that flying with a wing makes life a lot easier but not a cakewalk, and so that it doesn't matter which of you actually pushes the draft button.  Ah well, I'll probably never be totally happy with the beasts 

Now let's get the EEK missions back into the mix!  That'd be the best way to boost mission diversity IMO.

dave

[Hexx]

~ Bismarck had an escort,(Prinz Eugen) thanks for playing..  

The small ship draft is annoying, but really not a big deal, certainly not worth changing missions over.
Really just means if you can jump that ship they're at a disadvantage.

[el-Karnak]

~ Bismarck had an escort,(Prinz Eugen) thanks for playing..  

The small ship draft is annoying, but really not a big deal, certainly not worth changing missions over.
Really just means if you can jump that ship they're at a disadvantage.

When Bismark had an escort they ganged up on HMS Hood and blew it up.

Then, they split up and the RN ganged up on Bismark and sank it.  What the Bismark really needed was a completed Graf Zeppelin w/ BF109s to fly air CAP.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Nice Dave...
It would be GREAT if we could get those missions on the Forge for testing.
I'd even do another download...

[NuclearWessels]

Nice Dave...
It would be GREAT if we could get those missions on the Forge for testing.
I'd even do another download...

Slightly older versions of the  new Scout, Gauntlet, Outpost Sweep, and Convoy Raid missions are included in the latest Forge download pack (just had a peek in it), so at least some of them are covered.  I think Bonk heads/headed out today, so not sure how Forge updates will be handled?

dave

[NuclearWessels]

Oh yeah - would anyone be heartbroken if I turned off the AI cloaking for Romulans?  Or at least made it less common...

dave

[FPF-DieHard]

Oh yeah - would anyone be heartbroken if I turned off the AI cloaking for Romulans?  Or at least made it less common...

dave

Oh PLEAAAASSSEEEE do!!!

[KBF-Crim]

Oh yeah - would anyone be heartbroken if I turned off the AI cloaking for Romulans?  Or at least made it less common...

dave

Two edged sword.....for wingmen...they suck cloaked.....as AI in enemy missions when they are on the attack.....well....aggravating the enemy is a good thing ...right?

[Hexx]

I think ideally they
should not cloak when used as an AI ally against AI
should cloak (sometimes) when used as an AI ally against humans (though maybe not...)
cloak when used as an enemy AI. (especially if opposed to Lyran)

[KBFLordKrueg]

Nice Dave...
It would be GREAT if we could get those missions on the Forge for testing.
I'd even do another download...

Slightly older versions of the  new Scout, Gauntlet, Outpost Sweep, and Convoy Raid missions are included in the latest Forge download pack (just had a peek in it), so at least some of them are covered.  I think Bonk heads/headed out today, so not sure how Forge updates will be handled?

dave

He said he was dumping it in your lap...
He just used more words...

[NuclearWessels]

He said he was dumping it in your lap...
He just used more words...

<visualize evil dave running screaming for the hills>