Topic: New Poll: Would a "serious" no-Cheese server fly?

[Hexx]

The STL is a great ship, but (should) get munched by any of the later DNH's, and likely by a few on the DN's.

In any event (obviously) the tough part will be where to draw the line. The Hydran LB is unquestionably cheesy for
it's YFA, but other than to annoy t00l , even I would have a hard time arguing against it's inclusion.
Perhaps just a blanket statement , all DD's, all FF's, All CL's (and their respective upgrades) etc

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

I dont like any of the DNL's. Compare the regular dreads to them... they seem WAY overpowered when they come out... Like fast battlecruisers on steroids almost but with bad HETs. I say the DNL's are tech before their time...

L-STL is canon fodder. Only good for the other team who gets to kill it. 

Lol...the STL is cheesa deluxe in the right hands.  What you think it just sits there like the newbies play it?

[FPF-DieHard]

The STL is a great ship, but (should) get munched by any of the later DNH's, and likely by a few on the DN's.

In any event (obviously) the tough part will be where to draw the line. The Hydran LB is unquestionably cheesy for
it's YFA, but other than to annoy t00l , even I would have a hard time arguing against it's inclusion.
Perhaps just a blanket statement , all DD's, all FF's, All CL's (and their respective upgrades) etc

Every class of ship has a "best," look at the NHK. 

[762_XC]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

[FPF-DieHard]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

Yeah, it's the best ship under the sun . . .

[Hexx]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

Yeah, it's the best ship under the sun . . .

Which is why only the Empire's hottest pilots are allowed to fly it...

[Dizzy]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

Yeah, it's the best ship under the sun . . .

Which is why only the Empire's hottest pilots are allowed to fly it...

 

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Nah, well sorta 
It's a CC+ with an additional rack and an additional AMD.
The big thing is that it drops the move cost from 1 to .83 . Not a huge imbalance perse, but something
that does give the pilot those extra few points of energy often needed in early.
CS+ was (iirc) supposed to be a competing design for..something (don't rememember which ship)
According to SFB history (again iirc) one (2?) were built as prototype, but never put into production.

We all know what the cheese ships are.  Some made it past SFC1 and some didn't survive unaltered like the SPZ and the 14 phaser KCR with 47 power.

The CAD+ and CFS/CFS+  were considered "newbie" ships (in SFc1) and usually flown by bad players looking for an edge...or better yet a "cliff".  Anyway they didnt fare all that well in ladder match play.  Since then the little bump proxies get make the ship an issue ...  if flown especially in team play where you can shield it with a wing flying a less awkward ship.  The klingon drone bone D5D was another cheeser that survived...and was definetely a newbie ship but for some reason is now "chic" to fly, even over the terror of GZ (ladder match) cheesa deluxe AD5. 

But there are SOOOO many more like the Lyran STL.   

Gosh another 170+ alpha strike at speed 31,,,I'm sooo talented....

Think someone must have had a bitter experience with a STL..

<shrugs>

Never played or cared much about any ladder match system
Escorts (atm) have been given F racks, so hardly qualify anymore, (still I assume they'd be removed)
Again though it's not as simple as pointing at a ship.. early era> I'd claim the DF is one of the cheesiest ships around, by late
neither it nor it's  DWD really qualifies.

Sure the STL is cheese, as is the Fed DNL, Fed CF, Fed DVL, , Plasma CF's,Any gorn carrier, or Plasma PF, most Rom carriers, a number of Fed carriers, half the Hydran fleet ,the Kzin CVA (or is it SCS?? can never remember) arguably the Fed DNH (vis a vis the other DNH's) any of the HDW's. most CVA's
some CVD's, some of the maulers, pretty much any ISC PPD/Plasma equipped ship, some droners, etc tec

Really far easie if DH come up with a list of what he wants to use, then hears arguments for adding stuff  rather than deciding what to keep in.

Both ladder/tournaments play and campaigns are a part of SFB and SFC and should be equally respected.  They are part of the game and the community.   I have been mostly a ladder match player and this is actually my first campaign so I am a sort of new at the DYNA, but not the game.  

Fed DNH?  DNH is a DNH...each has its own plusses ands minuses.  There DN's.  If you DONT like DNH's  or DN's then they are cheese.  Next class up is the BB.  I wouldn't confuse citing a "class" of ships as cheese vs a particular ship.  I myself prefer the little ships, light cruisers, DD's, and low end heavies.  I love the tournament ships.  Had some of my best games (win or lose) flying those ships.  Having less in a PVP game is actually better because it prevents players from using certain systems as to bolster a predilection towards power overruns vice some of the other base tactics available in the game.

The STL is cheese (I know we agree on this) because it is a well balanced ship PLUS a mauler, a ship fully capable of flying without an escort like most maulers should have because something is missing or not up to the level of it's normal class.  It's cheese because while the Mauler actually requires some skill that skill level only applies after the first shot, which comes fully loaded.  Technically NOT a conjectural ship, only one STL was ever built.  What we saw in the DVERSE, fleets of AI controlled maulers sometimes three at a time, wouldnt fly in SFB patrol rules where you were allowed 1 mauler per three.

Its a problem in GSA and quite frankly if the Coalition had been able to keep up their numbers should have been a problem here.  Actually had they managed to combine PPD and Mauler...well I dont want to think about it. 

My opinion of course...

[Jacobyi]

Like Dfly said, a KCW style server with all 8 races. No cheese. 2 or 3 weeks. No dreads/carriers. I dont know if im a minority here but i really dont mind all the other ships. Kinda like the fast cruisers. Perhaps just change the ship availability date. Would love to see it.

[762_XC]

I'm just a little concerned that 4 other people think their name is t00l.

[FPF-AJTK]

Your NAME is t00l, but I AM a Tool, get that straight.   

Have to have both kinda servers, IMHO. My house is FINALLY ALMOST DONE and I am going to have my own office with my own hub, no damn router so I can finally play SFC again, w00t!!! So I am getting back into the swing of things.

OOB, "no-cheese" servers, etc, while they are fun for the purists and ahem, "Die-hards" are boring to most n00b and casual players. Being a long-time SFB rules lawyer like you all know I am the OOB server kicks total ass imho, but its also fun to have those old SFC1 3BBx3BB matches sometimes too. I mean, having Hexx charge a CAD+ in his stupid LDR war cruiser is one of my fondest SFC memories in nearly 10 years of playing the game. 

BTW, the all freighter combat server sounds pretty cool, the F-QL  kicks ass.... it can run at 30 with max EW and overloaded photons... w00t!

So, have the restricted servers, with very marginal player bases and also have the fun totally OTT cheese servers with no limits for laughs and to keep the Unpure interested.

Yes, Eve still rocks, btw.

FPF-AJTK

HAVE A NICE DAY!!

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Like Dfly said, a KCW style server with all 8 races. No cheese. 2 or 3 weeks. No dreads/carriers. I dont know if im a minority here but i really dont mind all the other ships. Kinda like the fast cruisers. Perhaps just change the ship availability date. Would love to see it.

Well if your going to do away with "V" designator ships (we assume only that and not rape the Hydran fleet) then the need for escorts is arguable.  Actaully that might make AI fights a little less lopsided since I noticed the system putting out small fleets of CV's with crappy patrol fighters vs ships of the line.   

Actually I sorta like the idea of restricting numbers.  Having ships that are usuable until dead.  And then restricted.             

[762_XC]

AJ, good to see you, you retrograding cheese monkey.

Get your butt on the server!

[Julin Eurthyr]

One question for the no-cheese server concept:  What will the status of the ISC be, considering the sheer number of "their ships are cheesy" comments (from Early-era power curve to PPD/Plasma combinations to the "dreaded" CCZ)

I'm sure that, somewhere, somehow, unless we play a "SFB in ziplock baggie day" era server, something's bound to be declared cheese...

[FPF-DieHard]

One question for the no-cheese server concept:  What will the status of the ISC be, considering the sheer number of "their ships are cheesy" comments (from Early-era power curve to PPD/Plasma combinations to the "dreaded" CCZ)

I'm sure that, somewhere, somehow, unless we play a "SFB in ziplock baggie day" era server, something's bound to be declared cheese...

Very good question.  I think all the CLs are fine, good for their class but not OTT.   CAs and up is where things become questionable and the alliances become a factor.  If the other side has SOMETHING competitive in the same class it's fine.  Mid Lyrans stack up well against ISC for example.   

CCZ and all other BCHs would be out.

[Hexx]

One question for the no-cheese server concept:  What will the status of the ISC be, considering the sheer number of "their ships are cheesy" comments (from Early-era power curve to PPD/Plasma combinations to the "dreaded" CCZ)

I'm sure that, somewhere, somehow, unless we play a "SFB in ziplock baggie day" era server, something's bound to be declared cheese...

I think you might have a problem my pacifistic friend.
Remember all your ships will be held up to the incompetent ship builders of the Federation.
If they can't build something better.. well.

The Lyran Empire does share your pain, we bolt a few extra pieces onto a CL and suddenly people are screaming about
"BCH's" in 68.   

It's an UPGRADED CL PEOPLE!!

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

One question for the no-cheese server concept:  What will the status of the ISC be, considering the sheer number of "their ships are cheesy" comments (from Early-era power curve to PPD/Plasma combinations to the "dreaded" CCZ)

I'm sure that, somewhere, somehow, unless we play a "SFB in ziplock baggie day" era server, something's bound to be declared cheese...

Botht the ISC and Mirak will start off in a separate dimensional galaxy called "cheese space" where they will fight until only one ship remains.

That ship will be transwarped into the normal space and the general campaign.

 

...after first running missions all the way acrossed the UAW server...(resupply will be back on the cheese server)

[Dfly]

Using the old PBR rules may solve the cheese issue for ISC.  It has things like no more than 4 PPD in a fleet of 3 ships, where there are heavies involved. etc.  Perhaps there would be a way to impliment similar to this, and still allow some big nasty ISC ships.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Using the old PBR rules may solve the cheese issue for ISC.  It has things like no more than 4 PPD in a fleet of 3 ships, where there are heavies involved. etc.  Perhaps there would be a way to impliment similar to this, and still allow some big nasty ISC ships.

"One would be a GOOD look at SFB patrol rules and see what can be scripted in or applied to a server."

Yup.  That should be the first undertaking.  Some of them might not fit SFC but thats where this balancing act should begin I would think.  They had similar rules for maulers.

[FPF-Paladin]

I voted Yes...

I usually fly line command ships so I'm probably biased.  I'm guilty of running a F-CS and fast cruiser around a bit this server, but you know when you enter PvP and 90% of the time it's you vs 2 or 3 others in same class hulls, just staying on the map to do damage can be a real challenge.  The fast cruiser doesn't have enough punch to do much against multiple opponents or heavier hulls, and the CS just doesn't have the guts nor shield regeneration that fed ships are based on in terms of 'racial flavour'.

I don't fly carriers as a rule, but can vouch for the F-DVL being OTT.  I was assigned one in previous campaign and flew it continuously from two days into the server up until the last two days of the server (got caught by a tractor disengaging if I remember right) and it was still a viable ship even in late era.  I hardly bothered with the fighters and flew it based on shipboard systems/weapons and did a whack of damage with it.  I don't want to touch the ISC issue...

I really enjoy early/mid cruiser battles myself; they're my favorite eras.  It's usually in late when things start getting out of hand, speed 31 battles and power overruns become the norm and unless there is terrain (I love asteriods myself) it's one or two heavy weapon passes, then someone is being chased off the map because they don't want to risk getting death dragged/tractored.