Topic: New Poll: Would a "serious" no-Cheese server fly?

[FPF-DieHard]

We've done these servers in the past but never with serious victory conditions and planning.   My "War Cruiser Hell" server never really saw more that a dozen people on at a time.

KCW had a great turnout for the first weekend and that server had no cheese.  The population dwindled as the serer had no technology advancement and I think people got bored of 3v3 D7W brawls.

Question is would people fly on a server with no droners, no CARRIERS, not PFs, no Dread, No BBs, no Fast Cruisers,  . . . if it has serious VCs, RMs, and all that stuff.

Can this fly if there is still some technological development (CC becomes CCH, CW because NCA, etc . . .)?

Personally, I like both.  2265 Command cruiser duels are my favorite thing in this game but I know I'd get bored to tears if I ever had to fly the same ship for 3 weeks. 

A little cheese adds flavor but too much gets dilutes the racial flavor that makes this game wonderful.  The recent popularity of Fast cruisers (I'm guilty of this myself)  show my point as it's mostly what people fly and these ships were supposed ot be rare.   Previous attempts at controlling cheese through OOB was in retrospect a bad idea.  The accounting was a nightmare, players were greatly limited to what they could fly, and newer players felt bad if they lost rare ship.   I'd never want to go back to a system like that unless it was 100% fully automated and we aren't quite there yet with SQL development.

Let me know what you think

[Bonk]

What was that CW "vanilla" server? It worked well.

If you try this you should make some simple and clear definitions arbitrarily applied with no room for arguement or it will simply descend into a what is cheese and what is not (admin bias etc. etc...) flamefest and fast.

[Hexx]

Personally, I like both.  2265 Command cruiser duels are my favorite thing in this game

How odd you spend all your time in the Fed CS...

I think it would work,although I'm curious as to why "carriers" was singled out for big letters..
However, would we also be removing those "unique" or very limited production ships that really mess up the balance?
(And yes I'm looking at the Fed CS, although the Lyran JGP series is another I believe)

I would of course volunteer my services as an impartial jusge of what is cheese/ dairy free.

And there would (imho) have to be some conditions as to where races were able to be deployed.
Throwing Mirak & Hydran (for example) agains the Roms might cause some issues.

Also (I'd suggest) it be 2 weeks tops, there would be some advancement, but it would essentially be
D7C-D7L/D5L-D7W  vs CC- CCR/CLC- CB

Perhaps some conditions that if you did xx then one of Dizzy's Legendary cres becomes available.. of course that's just more cheese though

[KBF MalaK]

why not a 'lite' cheese server..i.e. no med or fast drones, no BB's, and only early to mid PF's ??

[Bonk]

No, no, no... lets go Space Truckin'! 

[Hexx]

why not a 'lite' cheese server..i.e. no med or fast drones, no BB's, and only early to mid PF's ??

Well the Kzin would stay home... which would be nice  , but PF's are late only, (well early late maybe)
and BB's (despite the rantings) are rare enough they don't really count (imho)

The issues (I think) are
-the huge number of fast cruisers
-the droneboats
-fighters (though I think he means the plasma fighters here)
-DNH's
-DNL's
- Maulers(??) maybe..
-

[Hexx]

You know, I just realized

If we let Bonk,DH, and NW get together the next server is going to be a peacetime server
using freighters that have had all the cheese stripped off of them...

Somone make sure they never talk to each other..

[FPF-DieHard]

Personally, I like both.  2265 Command cruiser duels are my favorite thing in this game

How odd you spend all your time in the Fed CS...

I did not spend one second in a CS+ on SGO6.   Stop being a dick 

What were Dizzy and I flying when you went Poof?   

[Age]

  When I played on the servers I did play on I didn't like the fact the most flew the Heavy Iron 185+BPV being B-CHs and upwords.I would prefer a server where most would fly a CA or a CL.There is really no skill to flying a droner as well as heavy plasma boat.They don't require lots of skill considering the amounts of damage they do and yes PFs and fighters are something to be contented with.

[Hexx]

Personally, I like both.  2265 Command cruiser duels are my favorite thing in this game

How odd you spend all your time in the Fed CS...

I did not spend one second in a CS+ on SGO6.   Stop being a dick 

What were Dizzy and I flying when you went Poof?   

Well when you killed my DWLP I had thought it was a CS+
When Dizzy killed my DWLP it (I think) it was a CS+
When teh two of you killed me and TT it was your cheating ways.

Apolgies if you didn't , all those explosions tend to merge into one after a bit..

[FPF-DieHard]

The issues (I think) are
-the huge number of fast cruisers

This has gotten ridiculous, you kinda have no choice as this is what eveyone else is flying for PvP.  Some races however are SCREWED without them.   The Gorn don't have crap with flying before the BF comes out. 

-the droneboats

I'd say these are a reason for all the Fast Cruisers flown to beat on Droners

-fighters (though I think he means the plasma fighters here)

Plasma fighters give  Plasma races decent Hexx-munching ability, I don't think this is a bad thing.

-DNL's

DNLs are ridiculous with the current points system.  With OOB, it made sense not to build more than 1 of them as they could not be upgraded and would become long in the tooth.

That said, not all races have BCHs in 2268

-DNH's

DNHs come out in 2278 +, X-tech, BCHs, and all that stuff are out around this time.  look at the C10K over the C8K, the upgrade is more than warranted.

- Maulers(??) maybe..

The sun handles Maulers nicely

[FPF-DieHard]

Personally, I like both.  2265 Command cruiser duels are my favorite thing in this game

How odd you spend all your time in the Fed CS...

I did not spend one second in a CS+ on SGO6.   Stop being a dick 

What were Dizzy and I flying when you went Poof?   

Well when you killed my DWLP I had thought it was a CS+
When Dizzy killed my DWLP it (I think) it was a CS+
When teh two of you killed me and TT it was your cheating ways.

Apolgies if you didn't , all those explosions tend to merge into one after a bit..

Um, I didn't kill your CWLP this server.   I know I've killed you so many times that it is hard to keep track

[FPF-DieHard]

BACK ON TOPIC!!!!

All of the above mentioned stuff would qualify as "Cheese" in a no Cheese server

[FPF-DieHard]

56 views and 4 votes?  Are you kidding me?   Is this just 1 guys hitting "refresh" to see the latest Hexx Bashing?

[762_XC]

No. My name is t00l.

[el-Karnak]

No, no, no... lets go Space Truckin'! 

http://www.hornblasters.com/hbaud/HB4H-1h.mp3

 

[el-Karnak]

You know, I just realized

If we let Bonk,DH, and NW get together the next server is going to be a peacetime server
using freighters that have had all the cheese stripped off of them...

Somone make sure they never talk to each other..

I think where this going is a quest-based server. That would be a lot of fun, but a lot of mission scripting work. Might be worth it if you can ingrain a few characters from the community in the missions.

Quest-based servers are all the rage on many RPGs like SWG, WoW, and upcoming Age of Pirates RPG.

[Age]

  I just wanted to recant what I said about the skill it take to fly a ship that is a droner and a heavy plasma boat it is just that the BPV should match it.Then agian in the hands of a Veteran Pilot going agianst someone new and in a lower bpv is no match.It is unlike in GW when I am fighting a another Warrior.

[NuclearWessels]

You know, I just realized

If we let Bonk,DH, and NW get together the next server is going to be a peacetime server
using freighters that have had all the cheese stripped off of them...

Somone make sure they never talk to each other..

mmmmmmmmm ... freighter cheese strips .... mmmmmmmmmmmmm
<looks for drooling homer smiley>

dave

PS - I cast my vote for Yes, but if the current server is any example my available flying time seems to be about 4 missions a week anyway

[KBF MalaK]

oops, never realized PF's we're late era. Never used em c'ept on my I-BBVz on the forge (for base killin'). Disregard my previous post (and yes, I voted).


Mmmmmm, cheese goooood!

Sure beats facing heavy metal in a CL without amd.

[Lepton]

Fully in favor of the kind of limited ship server you suggest, DH.  I have basically flown a CS+ nearly the entire time on SGO6 until I bought the BFG.  For hydrans, I flew an LB and later a CHC.  Pretty standard ships that would fall into the bounds of your proposal.  I have never liked the cheesey ships, mostly I think because I could never figure out how to fly them correctly and they were also usually limited on the servers I have been on, which means by definition I would not be flying them.  I think the kind of server you suggest would help level the playing field a bit for the causal player and the newcomers, so that they don't need to be facing the encyclopedic knowledge of the veterans, their piloting skills, and scary ships they could never afford nor chose to fly.

[Dizzy]

<snip>

I have basically flown a CS+ nearly the entire time on SGO6... I have never liked the cheesey ships...

 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

You know I'd love it!

-S'Cipio

[Hexx]

<snip>

I have basically flown a CS+ nearly the entire time on SGO6... I have never liked the cheesey ships...

 

Yeah saw that as well- Lepton (assuming you don't know) the CS+ (I assume) would be considered one of the cheesy ships.
It's a SFB "unique" build ship, completely out of sync with everything else the Feds have in that era, that's why I make occasional snide comments about pilots flying them (like Dizzy actually...)
It's by no means hugely ott- but it is a better ship than the Feds should be using at the point where it comes out.

Still a salute for staying away from the completely ott Fed CF.. I respect that in a Fed pilot 

[Lepton]

Ah, the CS+, I believe is basically a CC+ with another drone rack on it.  Am I wrong?  If so, that hardly rates as cheesy in my book.  This is not the CFS+.

Well, it does have another amd rack on it.  Damn!  But, the DDG+ has two drone rack and 2 amd racks and that also comes into service in 2268.

Be that as it may I support a non-cheesy server even if apparently I can't tell the difference.

[Hexx]

Nah, well sorta 
It's a CC+ with an additional rack and an additional AMD.
The big thing is that it drops the move cost from 1 to .83 . Not a huge imbalance perse, but something
that does give the pilot those extra few points of energy often needed in early.
CS+ was (iirc) supposed to be a competing design for..something (don't rememember which ship)
According to SFB history (again iirc) one (2?) were built as prototype, but never put into production.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Sigh...

Lets all do four era versions of Tournament ships..

Actually what attracted me to this was flying those Gorn fighters.  Then I found out they were one dimensional and crappy except for the first shot...which is a doozy.  But thats not fun.  Their dumb.  

Get rid of Alien encounter...a sucker mission.  

Trying to balance the cheese out of the game is a vast and careful undertaking.  Probably would take a combination of approaches...

One would be a GOOD look at SFB patrol rules and see what can be scripted in or applied to a server.

Another would be to poll players for a few months and ask what their opinion is of the top 3 cheese in each race.  The top 3 could be banned or limited to extreme rarity...3 a race.  And upon their destruction they would not be allowed back in.    So you might have a rather interesting "gotta sink the bismark" scenario played out here and there.  (No offense to Feds of course...lol).

Another approach would be to make rare or eliminate all those mid eraish fast cruisers that seem to have better power curves than their late eraish counterparts, or at least look at changing the frequency and time they come out.  

That would net a list of 24 ships which could be juggled around and maybe just two eliminated.

Another would be to make an actual list of SFB conjectural ships and put them on the block.

Another way would be to make up limit rules like no Frigate droner more than 1 drones, no destroyer more than 2 drones, no light cruiser more than 3 etc etc etc....same with fighters.   But when you start doing that of course the problem is  killing balance in the Miraks, Klings and Hydrans.

It's hopeless really...Taldren tried like hell to fix it but they nearly broke the game trying to do it.

[Lepton]

Less movement cost, too!!  No wonder I like that ship so much. 

[Dfly]

I am all in favour of a campaign with no cheese, no big stuff, similar to KCW(which was real fun, but too long due to only 1 race involved, and no ship development).  Imagine, a KCW shiplist style, involving 8 races.  That could run for 3 weeks as you have a choice of 4 races per side to try out.

[Wraith 413]

 Hmmm, how about 2 weeks ?



                   Wraith 413

[Wraith 413]

No. My name is t00l.

  ROFLMAO !!!



                                           Wraith 413

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Nah, well sorta 
It's a CC+ with an additional rack and an additional AMD.
The big thing is that it drops the move cost from 1 to .83 . Not a huge imbalance perse, but something
that does give the pilot those extra few points of energy often needed in early.
CS+ was (iirc) supposed to be a competing design for..something (don't rememember which ship)
According to SFB history (again iirc) one (2?) were built as prototype, but never put into production.

We all know what the cheese ships are.  Some made it past SFC1 and some didn't survive unaltered like the SPZ and the 14 phaser KCR with 47 power.

The CAD+ and CFS/CFS+  were considered "newbie" ships (in SFc1) and usually flown by bad players looking for an edge...or better yet a "cliff".  Anyway they didnt fare all that well in ladder match play.  Since then the little bump proxies get make the ship an issue ...  if flown especially in team play where you can shield it with a wing flying a less awkward ship.  The klingon drone bone D5D was another cheeser that survived...and was definetely a newbie ship but for some reason is now "chic" to fly, even over the terror of GZ (ladder match) cheesa deluxe AD5. 

But there are SOOOO many more like the Lyran STL.   


Gosh another 170+ alpha strike at speed 31,,,I'm sooo talented....

[Hexx]

Nah, well sorta 
It's a CC+ with an additional rack and an additional AMD.
The big thing is that it drops the move cost from 1 to .83 . Not a huge imbalance perse, but something
that does give the pilot those extra few points of energy often needed in early.
CS+ was (iirc) supposed to be a competing design for..something (don't rememember which ship)
According to SFB history (again iirc) one (2?) were built as prototype, but never put into production.

We all know what the cheese ships are.  Some made it past SFC1 and some didn't survive unaltered like the SPZ and the 14 phaser KCR with 47 power.

The CAD+ and CFS/CFS+  were considered "newbie" ships (in SFc1) and usually flown by bad players looking for an edge...or better yet a "cliff".  Anyway they didnt fare all that well in ladder match play.  Since then the little bump proxies get make the ship an issue ...  if flown especially in team play where you can shield it with a wing flying a less awkward ship.  The klingon drone bone D5D was another cheeser that survived...and was definetely a newbie ship but for some reason is now "chic" to fly, even over the terror of GZ (ladder match) cheesa deluxe AD5. 

But there are SOOOO many more like the Lyran STL.   

Gosh another 170+ alpha strike at speed 31,,,I'm sooo talented....

Think someone must have had a bitter experience with a STL..

<shrugs>

Never played or cared much about any ladder match system
Escorts (atm) have been given F racks, so hardly qualify anymore, (still I assume they'd be removed)
Again though it's not as simple as pointing at a ship.. early era> I'd claim the DF is one of the cheesiest ships around, by late
neither it nor it's  DWD really qualifies.

Sure the STL is cheese, as is the Fed DNL, Fed CF, Fed DVL, , Plasma CF's,Any gorn carrier, or Plasma PF, most Rom carriers, a number of Fed carriers, half the Hydran fleet ,the Kzin CVA (or is it SCS?? can never remember) arguably the Fed DNH (vis a vis the other DNH's) any of the HDW's. most CVA's
some CVD's, some of the maulers, pretty much any ISC PPD/Plasma equipped ship, some droners, etc tec

Really far easie if DH come up with a list of what he wants to use, then hears arguments for adding stuff  rather than deciding what to keep in.

[FPF-DieHard]

We culd always go back to OOB . . . . 

KIDDDING!!

Problem about Cheese is you can remove some without removing others. 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

You could always take out much of the specialty ships, make it a two race server, and import various line ships from allied races into the list for variety and to fill gaps.

[Dizzy]

We all know what the cheese ships are... like the Lyran STL.   

Wha??? Just cuz it's a cheese ship doesnt mean it needs to go. I mean, the STL is hands down the most destroyed ship on SG6... 

[FPF-DieHard]

As far as Cheese-Dreads go, could we simply price them CVAs?

[Dizzy]

Depends on the cheese. But then we start having to classify cheese. That's something I dont want to get into.

[FPF-DieHard]

Depends on the cheese. But then we start having to classify cheese. That's something I dont want to get into.

DNLs, Fed DVL, L-STL

[Dizzy]

I dont like any of the DNL's. Compare the regular dreads to them... they seem WAY overpowered when they come out... Like fast battlecruisers on steroids almost but with bad HETs. I say the DNL's are tech before their time...

L-STL is canon fodder. Only good for the other team who gets to kill it. 

[Hexx]

The STL is a great ship, but (should) get munched by any of the later DNH's, and likely by a few on the DN's.

In any event (obviously) the tough part will be where to draw the line. The Hydran LB is unquestionably cheesy for
it's YFA, but other than to annoy t00l , even I would have a hard time arguing against it's inclusion.
Perhaps just a blanket statement , all DD's, all FF's, All CL's (and their respective upgrades) etc

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

I dont like any of the DNL's. Compare the regular dreads to them... they seem WAY overpowered when they come out... Like fast battlecruisers on steroids almost but with bad HETs. I say the DNL's are tech before their time...

L-STL is canon fodder. Only good for the other team who gets to kill it. 

Lol...the STL is cheesa deluxe in the right hands.  What you think it just sits there like the newbies play it?

[FPF-DieHard]

The STL is a great ship, but (should) get munched by any of the later DNH's, and likely by a few on the DN's.

In any event (obviously) the tough part will be where to draw the line. The Hydran LB is unquestionably cheesy for
it's YFA, but other than to annoy t00l , even I would have a hard time arguing against it's inclusion.
Perhaps just a blanket statement , all DD's, all FF's, All CL's (and their respective upgrades) etc

Every class of ship has a "best," look at the NHK. 

[762_XC]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

[FPF-DieHard]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

Yeah, it's the best ship under the sun . . .

[Hexx]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

Yeah, it's the best ship under the sun . . .

Which is why only the Empire's hottest pilots are allowed to fly it...

[Dizzy]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

Yeah, it's the best ship under the sun . . .

Which is why only the Empire's hottest pilots are allowed to fly it...

 

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Nah, well sorta 
It's a CC+ with an additional rack and an additional AMD.
The big thing is that it drops the move cost from 1 to .83 . Not a huge imbalance perse, but something
that does give the pilot those extra few points of energy often needed in early.
CS+ was (iirc) supposed to be a competing design for..something (don't rememember which ship)
According to SFB history (again iirc) one (2?) were built as prototype, but never put into production.

We all know what the cheese ships are.  Some made it past SFC1 and some didn't survive unaltered like the SPZ and the 14 phaser KCR with 47 power.

The CAD+ and CFS/CFS+  were considered "newbie" ships (in SFc1) and usually flown by bad players looking for an edge...or better yet a "cliff".  Anyway they didnt fare all that well in ladder match play.  Since then the little bump proxies get make the ship an issue ...  if flown especially in team play where you can shield it with a wing flying a less awkward ship.  The klingon drone bone D5D was another cheeser that survived...and was definetely a newbie ship but for some reason is now "chic" to fly, even over the terror of GZ (ladder match) cheesa deluxe AD5. 

But there are SOOOO many more like the Lyran STL.   

Gosh another 170+ alpha strike at speed 31,,,I'm sooo talented....

Think someone must have had a bitter experience with a STL..

<shrugs>

Never played or cared much about any ladder match system
Escorts (atm) have been given F racks, so hardly qualify anymore, (still I assume they'd be removed)
Again though it's not as simple as pointing at a ship.. early era> I'd claim the DF is one of the cheesiest ships around, by late
neither it nor it's  DWD really qualifies.

Sure the STL is cheese, as is the Fed DNL, Fed CF, Fed DVL, , Plasma CF's,Any gorn carrier, or Plasma PF, most Rom carriers, a number of Fed carriers, half the Hydran fleet ,the Kzin CVA (or is it SCS?? can never remember) arguably the Fed DNH (vis a vis the other DNH's) any of the HDW's. most CVA's
some CVD's, some of the maulers, pretty much any ISC PPD/Plasma equipped ship, some droners, etc tec

Really far easie if DH come up with a list of what he wants to use, then hears arguments for adding stuff  rather than deciding what to keep in.

Both ladder/tournaments play and campaigns are a part of SFB and SFC and should be equally respected.  They are part of the game and the community.   I have been mostly a ladder match player and this is actually my first campaign so I am a sort of new at the DYNA, but not the game.  

Fed DNH?  DNH is a DNH...each has its own plusses ands minuses.  There DN's.  If you DONT like DNH's  or DN's then they are cheese.  Next class up is the BB.  I wouldn't confuse citing a "class" of ships as cheese vs a particular ship.  I myself prefer the little ships, light cruisers, DD's, and low end heavies.  I love the tournament ships.  Had some of my best games (win or lose) flying those ships.  Having less in a PVP game is actually better because it prevents players from using certain systems as to bolster a predilection towards power overruns vice some of the other base tactics available in the game.

The STL is cheese (I know we agree on this) because it is a well balanced ship PLUS a mauler, a ship fully capable of flying without an escort like most maulers should have because something is missing or not up to the level of it's normal class.  It's cheese because while the Mauler actually requires some skill that skill level only applies after the first shot, which comes fully loaded.  Technically NOT a conjectural ship, only one STL was ever built.  What we saw in the DVERSE, fleets of AI controlled maulers sometimes three at a time, wouldnt fly in SFB patrol rules where you were allowed 1 mauler per three.

Its a problem in GSA and quite frankly if the Coalition had been able to keep up their numbers should have been a problem here.  Actually had they managed to combine PPD and Mauler...well I dont want to think about it. 

My opinion of course...

[Jacobyi]

Like Dfly said, a KCW style server with all 8 races. No cheese. 2 or 3 weeks. No dreads/carriers. I dont know if im a minority here but i really dont mind all the other ships. Kinda like the fast cruisers. Perhaps just change the ship availability date. Would love to see it.

[762_XC]

I'm just a little concerned that 4 other people think their name is t00l.

[FPF-AJTK]

Your NAME is t00l, but I AM a Tool, get that straight.   

Have to have both kinda servers, IMHO. My house is FINALLY ALMOST DONE and I am going to have my own office with my own hub, no damn router so I can finally play SFC again, w00t!!! So I am getting back into the swing of things.

OOB, "no-cheese" servers, etc, while they are fun for the purists and ahem, "Die-hards" are boring to most n00b and casual players. Being a long-time SFB rules lawyer like you all know I am the OOB server kicks total ass imho, but its also fun to have those old SFC1 3BBx3BB matches sometimes too. I mean, having Hexx charge a CAD+ in his stupid LDR war cruiser is one of my fondest SFC memories in nearly 10 years of playing the game. 

BTW, the all freighter combat server sounds pretty cool, the F-QL  kicks ass.... it can run at 30 with max EW and overloaded photons... w00t!

So, have the restricted servers, with very marginal player bases and also have the fun totally OTT cheese servers with no limits for laughs and to keep the Unpure interested.

Yes, Eve still rocks, btw.

FPF-AJTK

HAVE A NICE DAY!!

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Like Dfly said, a KCW style server with all 8 races. No cheese. 2 or 3 weeks. No dreads/carriers. I dont know if im a minority here but i really dont mind all the other ships. Kinda like the fast cruisers. Perhaps just change the ship availability date. Would love to see it.

Well if your going to do away with "V" designator ships (we assume only that and not rape the Hydran fleet) then the need for escorts is arguable.  Actaully that might make AI fights a little less lopsided since I noticed the system putting out small fleets of CV's with crappy patrol fighters vs ships of the line.   

Actually I sorta like the idea of restricting numbers.  Having ships that are usuable until dead.  And then restricted.             

[762_XC]

AJ, good to see you, you retrograding cheese monkey.

Get your butt on the server!

[Julin Eurthyr]

One question for the no-cheese server concept:  What will the status of the ISC be, considering the sheer number of "their ships are cheesy" comments (from Early-era power curve to PPD/Plasma combinations to the "dreaded" CCZ)

I'm sure that, somewhere, somehow, unless we play a "SFB in ziplock baggie day" era server, something's bound to be declared cheese...

[FPF-DieHard]

One question for the no-cheese server concept:  What will the status of the ISC be, considering the sheer number of "their ships are cheesy" comments (from Early-era power curve to PPD/Plasma combinations to the "dreaded" CCZ)

I'm sure that, somewhere, somehow, unless we play a "SFB in ziplock baggie day" era server, something's bound to be declared cheese...

Very good question.  I think all the CLs are fine, good for their class but not OTT.   CAs and up is where things become questionable and the alliances become a factor.  If the other side has SOMETHING competitive in the same class it's fine.  Mid Lyrans stack up well against ISC for example.   

CCZ and all other BCHs would be out.

[Hexx]

One question for the no-cheese server concept:  What will the status of the ISC be, considering the sheer number of "their ships are cheesy" comments (from Early-era power curve to PPD/Plasma combinations to the "dreaded" CCZ)

I'm sure that, somewhere, somehow, unless we play a "SFB in ziplock baggie day" era server, something's bound to be declared cheese...

I think you might have a problem my pacifistic friend.
Remember all your ships will be held up to the incompetent ship builders of the Federation.
If they can't build something better.. well.

The Lyran Empire does share your pain, we bolt a few extra pieces onto a CL and suddenly people are screaming about
"BCH's" in 68.   

It's an UPGRADED CL PEOPLE!!

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

One question for the no-cheese server concept:  What will the status of the ISC be, considering the sheer number of "their ships are cheesy" comments (from Early-era power curve to PPD/Plasma combinations to the "dreaded" CCZ)

I'm sure that, somewhere, somehow, unless we play a "SFB in ziplock baggie day" era server, something's bound to be declared cheese...

Botht the ISC and Mirak will start off in a separate dimensional galaxy called "cheese space" where they will fight until only one ship remains.

That ship will be transwarped into the normal space and the general campaign.

 

...after first running missions all the way acrossed the UAW server...(resupply will be back on the cheese server)

[Dfly]

Using the old PBR rules may solve the cheese issue for ISC.  It has things like no more than 4 PPD in a fleet of 3 ships, where there are heavies involved. etc.  Perhaps there would be a way to impliment similar to this, and still allow some big nasty ISC ships.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Using the old PBR rules may solve the cheese issue for ISC.  It has things like no more than 4 PPD in a fleet of 3 ships, where there are heavies involved. etc.  Perhaps there would be a way to impliment similar to this, and still allow some big nasty ISC ships.

"One would be a GOOD look at SFB patrol rules and see what can be scripted in or applied to a server."

Yup.  That should be the first undertaking.  Some of them might not fit SFC but thats where this balancing act should begin I would think.  They had similar rules for maulers.

[FPF-Paladin]

I voted Yes...

I usually fly line command ships so I'm probably biased.  I'm guilty of running a F-CS and fast cruiser around a bit this server, but you know when you enter PvP and 90% of the time it's you vs 2 or 3 others in same class hulls, just staying on the map to do damage can be a real challenge.  The fast cruiser doesn't have enough punch to do much against multiple opponents or heavier hulls, and the CS just doesn't have the guts nor shield regeneration that fed ships are based on in terms of 'racial flavour'.

I don't fly carriers as a rule, but can vouch for the F-DVL being OTT.  I was assigned one in previous campaign and flew it continuously from two days into the server up until the last two days of the server (got caught by a tractor disengaging if I remember right) and it was still a viable ship even in late era.  I hardly bothered with the fighters and flew it based on shipboard systems/weapons and did a whack of damage with it.  I don't want to touch the ISC issue...

I really enjoy early/mid cruiser battles myself; they're my favorite eras.  It's usually in late when things start getting out of hand, speed 31 battles and power overruns become the norm and unless there is terrain (I love asteriods myself) it's one or two heavy weapon passes, then someone is being chased off the map because they don't want to risk getting death dragged/tractored.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The STL is really only a problem on GSA. At 220 it has DNH firepower for battlecruiser cost.

Yeah, it's the best ship under the sun . . .

Which is why only the Empire's hottest pilots are allowed to fly it...

So long as they keep a copy of the rules near by in order to spot any infraction that will let them get out of fighting and/or never fly 40 clicks from a border.

How about a server where people will actually fly their ships into battle and actually have fun in combat?

[KBF MalaK]

Like Dfly said, a KCW style server with all 8 races. No cheese. 2 or 3 weeks. No dreads/carriers. I dont know if im a minority here but i really dont mind all the other ships. Kinda like the fast cruisers. Perhaps just change the ship availability date. Would love to see it.

Well if your going to do away with "V" designator ships (we assume only that and not rape the Hydran fleet) then the need for escorts is arguable.  Actaully that might make AI fights a little less lopsided since I noticed the system putting out small fleets of CV's with crappy patrol fighters vs ships of the line.   

Actually I sorta like the idea of restricting numbers.  Having ships that are usuable until dead.  And then restricted.             

Wanna talk about cheese ?? I ran into my first F-FFV this morning- what dingbat designed that POS ?? It's a small CA with no shields. Please put a stop to building fantasy ships like this- everyone knows a FF doesn't have the space onboard to house a squad of PF's.

[FPF-DieHard]

Like Dfly said, a KCW style server with all 8 races. No cheese. 2 or 3 weeks. No dreads/carriers. I dont know if im a minority here but i really dont mind all the other ships. Kinda like the fast cruisers. Perhaps just change the ship availability date. Would love to see it.

Well if your going to do away with "V" designator ships (we assume only that and not rape the Hydran fleet) then the need for escorts is arguable.  Actaully that might make AI fights a little less lopsided since I noticed the system putting out small fleets of CV's with crappy patrol fighters vs ships of the line.   

Actually I sorta like the idea of restricting numbers.  Having ships that are usuable until dead.  And then restricted.             

Wanna talk about cheese ?? I ran into my first F-FFV this morning- what dingbat designed that POS ?? It's a small CA with no shields. Please put a stop to building fantasy ships like this- everyone knows a FF doesn't have the space onboard to house a squad of PF's.

FFV?   That was in the original game.   Are you sure that's the right designation.

[FPF-DieHard]

How about a server where people will actually fly their ships into battle and actually have fun in combat?

It's called Eve, us OP people prefer to make things overly-complicated and spend more time bithcing than we do flying 

[KBF MalaK]

Like Dfly said, a KCW style server with all 8 races. No cheese. 2 or 3 weeks. No dreads/carriers. I dont know if im a minority here but i really dont mind all the other ships. Kinda like the fast cruisers. Perhaps just change the ship availability date. Would love to see it.

Well if your going to do away with "V" designator ships (we assume only that and not rape the Hydran fleet) then the need for escorts is arguable.  Actaully that might make AI fights a little less lopsided since I noticed the system putting out small fleets of CV's with crappy patrol fighters vs ships of the line.   

Actually I sorta like the idea of restricting numbers.  Having ships that are usuable until dead.  And then restricted.             

Wanna talk about cheese ?? I ran into my first F-FFV this morning- what dingbat designed that POS ?? It's a small CA with no shields. Please put a stop to building fantasy ships like this- everyone knows a FF doesn't have the space onboard to house a squad of PF's.

FFV?   That was in the original game.   Are you sure that's the right designation.

yup, federation fast frigate/ carrier. I just checked the posted shiplist for this server, and it's correct designation. I also saw a F-FFV+ on there as well. I can't wait for the F-FFVX varient (Cheese-a-roni) feddie style.

Can I have a K-F5DBVX please ?? 

[Hexx]

Like Dfly said, a KCW style server with all 8 races. No cheese. 2 or 3 weeks. No dreads/carriers. I dont know if im a minority here but i really dont mind all the other ships. Kinda like the fast cruisers. Perhaps just change the ship availability date. Would love to see it.

Well if your going to do away with "V" designator ships (we assume only that and not rape the Hydran fleet) then the need for escorts is arguable.  Actaully that might make AI fights a little less lopsided since I noticed the system putting out small fleets of CV's with crappy patrol fighters vs ships of the line.   

Actually I sorta like the idea of restricting numbers.  Having ships that are usuable until dead.  And then restricted.             

Wanna talk about cheese ?? I ran into my first F-FFV this morning- what dingbat designed that POS ?? It's a small CA with no shields. Please put a stop to building fantasy ships like this- everyone knows a FF doesn't have the space onboard to house a squad of PF's.

FFV?   That was in the original game.   Are you sure that's the right designation.

yup, federation fast frigate/ carrier. I just checked the posted shiplist for this server, and it's correct designation. I also saw a F-FFV+ on there as well. I can't wait for the F-FFVX varient (Cheese-a-roni) feddie style.

Can I have a K-F5DBVX please ?? 

??
FFV+ carries 4 fighters, not PF's
SAme thing as E4VK

[FPF-DieHard]

Are you talking about the Solo PF leaders?  Every race has them, we stole this from Squadron Commnader.  It's a PF leader with 4 PF, represents a flotila operating away from a carrier.

It was kind of a silly after-thought that Dizzy wanted to throw in in the last minutes.

And yes, the Klingons have one 

[KBF MalaK]

live and learn- I still cant tell the diff from a PF and a fighter. But as a Pseudo-fighter, doesn't that mean 'wanna-be' fighter ??

I still think it's a fantasy ship (the BPV is too high for a FF) and space limitations make it impossible even in the Trek universe.

[FPF-DieHard]

One pass from a Cruiser kills them.  Nobody is flying the Solo PF Leaders to my knowledge anyway so they should find there way in the Recycle bin soon enough.

BACK ON TOPIC

Would a no-cheese seriosu server fly?   

[KBFLordKrueg]

Well, we have a few players flying them actually.
They do make great drafting ships and a flotilla of plasma armed P/Fs can be most effective. 
Even heard reports of pilots flying solo cranking out 2 min missions with them, so they can hang vs AI, even with the tougher missions here.
Still untested in battle vs live players, however.

[FPF-DieHard]

Well, we have a few players flying them actually.
They do make great drafting ships and a flotilla of plasma armed P/Fs can be most effective. 
Even heard reports of pilots flying solo cranking out 2 min missions with them, so they can hang vs AI, even with the tougher missions here.
Still untested in battle vs live players, however.

Really?   Good to hear.  Plasma ships that can run fast mission . . . .  this is a good thing  I imagine they would make great drafters with 160 BPV for the whole Flotila.

I'm curious to see how/if they are unbalancing in PvP. 

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Well, we have a few players flying them actually.
They do make great drafting ships and a flotilla of plasma armed P/Fs can be most effective. 
Even heard reports of pilots flying solo cranking out 2 min missions with them, so they can hang vs AI, even with the tougher missions here.
Still untested in battle vs live players, however.

Really?   Good to hear.  Plasma ships that can run fast mission . . . .  this is a good thing  I imagine they would make great drafters with 160 BPV for the whole Flotila.

I'm curious to see how/if they are unbalancing in PvP. 

Well obviously a gangbang tactics using a tractor.  I would assume you jump into one and lead the pack, grab and let fly the load.  We had a player or two make a go of PF tenders in GAMESPY...Kirok I think.   

[CaptJosh]

AJTK, for heaven's sake get a switch. Hubs broadcast all packets sent to them down all network lines attached and add quite unnecessarily to your network traffic.