Topic: Hate to do this mid server to the Coalition, but...

[Dizzy]

You guys may be screwed. It's 2278 and this thing comes out...

[KBFLordKrueg]

You asked me where "our public voice" was when we have questions, etc. regarding ships, etc...
I've seen two posts so far asking why the B11K, B11V and B10V are now missing from the shiplist, with zero responses...

but, the Feds get a new, improved DN...?

So, again I ask, for the Coalition, where are those ships? And WTF have they been removed from the shiplist?

[762_XC]

Nobody has battleship carriers in this list.

[Hexx]

~ Nice model, really don't like the 3 nacelle designs though, it would look better with 2.

As for the rest of it, let's discuss it after the server.

[KBF MalaK]

You asked me where "our public voice" was when we have questions, etc. regarding ships, etc...
I've seen two posts so far asking why the B11K, B11V and B10V are now missing from the shiplist, with zero responses...

but, the Feds get a new, improved DN...?

So, again I ask, for the Coalition, where are those ships? And WTF have they been removed from the shiplist?

When it rains, it pours, eh chief ??

Again, this smells like an alliance plot- cheese you off so you leave, demoralize the rest of us by having Diz 'assume' a leadership role, the give the alliance a ship only countered by a coalition force with NUMBERS (which we don't have) because we don't have the hardware to counter it.

Thank god there's only a week left.

[FPF-DieHard]

IT's ONLY A NEW SHIP MODEL!!!!!

Geesh

[762_XC]

I hope you're joking Malak.

[Lepton]

Ah, Dizzy is baiting them.  They are taking the bait and you blame them for reacting when being baited.  So let me get this straight, I tell you that I am going to punch you in the head, and you're not to have the slightest reaction to that statement.  Look at the title.  Hate to do this mid server to the Coalition.  Certainly indicates something is happening.  While his sense of conspiracy has certainly run away with him, I can't fault him for his frustration.

[Hexx]

Ah, Dizzy is baiting them.  They are taking the bait and you blame them for reacting when being baited.  So let me get this straight, I tell you that I am going to punch you in the head, and you're not to have the slightest reaction to that statement.  Look at the title.  Hate to do this mid server to the Coalition.  Certainly indicates something is happening.  While his sense of conspiracy has certainly run away with him, I can't fault him for his frustration.

Further proof of my "everyone on D2 but me is stupid theory"

Or is it a hypothesis?... <looks for dictionary>

[Dizzy]

It'a a new ship model to replace that ugly OPPlus model Firesoul uses for the fdng. There has been no shiplist modification. How silly are you guys?  

The B11K is a super bb. Rememeber this ship was more build points on past servers. Bottom line was the klinks built a B10, not a B11. In the interest of everyone being able to field a BB, certain conjectural designs have been allowed to be in play.

However, I do prefer the B11 be in the list. It can always be specialed out. In the current max iron we use it can simply cost more. Balance is still an issue.

Afa bbv's go, I've never liked them. I dont think DH does either. Should they be put in an SFBish SG list? I dont think so, but anything can happen. What do the players want? Will it make more players play the game having ultimate cheese ships in play? I dunno. Needs to be discussed Im sure.

[FPF-DieHard]

Afa bbv's go, I've never liked them. I dont think DH does either. Should they be put in an SFBish SG list? I dont think so, but anything can happen. What do the players want? Will it make more players play the game having ultimate cheese ships in play? I dunno. Needs to be discussed Im sure.

I don't like any BBs, hate flying them, hate having them in the game but I know some people do.  We cut th BBVs an the Super BB out of SGO5 (what was that, a year ago?).  Nobody bitched about it then.

We can add all the Ubber BBs back, but they need to be priced accordingly in the Points system  I'd rather see BBs gone compelty, but some people like them.

One possibilty, that I can live with (obviously not now but for the future) is to only allow the B10 series of BBs but use the CORRECT SFB FYA.  The B10s were never finished bedfore the Andro invasion, they never saw any action in the Gereal War time people which encompasses SGO6.   

Any BB in 2275 is conjectual

[762_XC]

The problem with allowing only one BB is combat density. There has to be a valid fleet able to counter the fleet centered around the BB.

[Dizzy]

Yup, the B!0 is available in year 2274 a full year b4 anyone else's on the SG list. But in SFB the ship never saw action till 2295. That's well beyond the run time of any of my past servers. I usually call it around 2287. Otherwise everything moved toward X tech refitis and 2nd gen Xships. B10, imo sucks compared to the xtech out in 195.

[FPF-DieHard]

Yup, the B!0 is available in year 2274 a full year b4 anyone else's on the SG list. But in SFB the ship never saw action till 2295. That's well beyond the run time of any of my past servers. I usually call it around 2287. Otherwise everything moved toward X tech refitis and 2nd gen Xships. B10, imo sucks compared to the xtech out in 195.

2nd Gen X-tech is Post Andro invasion.   A B10k with an XP refit versus a Dominator could be kinda cool . . .

(PS,  we've got work to do after this is over  )

[Dizzy]

omg

[Dfly]

Actually according to SFB, there were no BBs at all, with the exception of 4 beeing built by the Klingons.  Of the 4, only 2 made it to full construction.  Of the other 2, they were launched prior to being ready and died horribly.  You are right in that they did not come out till the late 2290s.  This would mean the Fed BB, and all the other BBs NEVER came out at all as none were ever past the paper stage. 

You also state that you left congectural ships in, well the B11K was exactly that, but it has been removed.

[Dizzy]

Ummm... no one reads anymore. BB's are in SG5/6 beacuse people like to fly them. Super BB's are not and BBV's are not partially because of super cheesiness and play balance factors. YFA's are in concordance with Opplus, taldren stock, and play balance issues as best that can be.

If you guys cant deal with that, then we can take them out completely and change the B10 to yeay 195 as per sfb and it wont ever get flown because most all servers end before then. But that sucks imo.

No matter what happens someone will get pissed off here. The sfb purists are pissed because the only bb to be built doesnt happen till 195 and we let loose a buncha BB's around 175. If we take them out and change the B10 to 195 to make happy the sfb purists, then the players who like what BB's bring to the game are pissed off. Its a no win.

So we went for the fun and dynamic aspect of allowing players to field BB's over the objections of some purist sfbers who have recently quit the server and have headed over to eve.

[FPF-DieHard]

You also state that you left congectural ships in, well the B11K was exactly that, but it has been removed.

because we removed BBVs and Super BBs

Look, if there is this much BS about batteships, were are better off not having any at all.   Don't fly any and we won't either.

[KBF MalaK]

I hope you're joking Malak.

see, jokes work both ways.

Ya, I was kidding. In reality I'd be surprised if Dizzy DIDN't try something mid-server.

[Father Ted]

The only thing missing now is Nanner, Gow, and "All Feds are cheaters!!!" Then everything would be perfect.

[FPF-DieHard]

I hope you're joking Malak.

see, jokes work both ways.

Ya, I was kidding. In reality I'd be surprised if Dizzy DIDN't try something mid-server.

He did.  Dizzy did the worst possible thing to hurt the Coalition . .  .

 . . .   He switched to their side   

[KBFLordKrueg]

I hope you're joking Malak.

see, jokes work both ways.

Ya, I was kidding. In reality I'd be surprised if Dizzy DIDN't try something mid-server.


[/quo

He did.  Dizzy did the worst possible thing to hurt the Coalition . .  .

 . . .   He switched to their side   

 

[Dfly]

You also state that you left congectural ships in, well the B11K was exactly that, but it has been removed.

because we removed BBVs and Super BBs

Look, if there is this much BS about batteships, were are better off not having any at all.   Don't fly any and we won't either.

DH, it is not BS about BBs, we were asked to post what we may or may not have a problem with in ships within the shiplist because you guys would listen.  I see how well you listen,  basically telling us to shut up and take it, as in :"Don't fly any and we won't either." 

[Dizzy]

Stop the BS. Put up a poll. How many want Super BB's and BBV's in the game? If the majority say yes, then sure, but make sure you ask about FYA's. Also know if they are their Max iron points will be higher than regular BB's.

[762_XC]

They're in for now. Every race has a BB. Nobody has a BBV. Nobody has a B11, which can't be compared to anything else.

BB's have hardly had any effect on the server at all. I haven't seen a single kill post made with one. What's the issue here?

[Dizzy]

Ya I dont get it either. I mean, if we add the B11K... what year would it be available?

BBV's... I want to know how many peeps think they should be in.

It's not like anyone's getting shorted here.... No one has BBV's.

[Dfly]

It is amazing how far this gets out of proportion.  All I really wanted was a fair explanation and to understand why the B11K was not in the list.  It ends up with me being told I am BSing, and to put up polls.  OH well.  No wonder the coalition guys sometimes get unhappy and dont want to voice things out in the open.

I flew a BB for a few missions just for the fun of it, because I could.  Because I had earned enough Points in 2 different races to purchase and supply them. 

If they were not in the list at all, then I may have asked why as per having none, but not pick out any specific BB.  It was only because the particular one, B11, was not on the list. 

Relax.

[KBF-Crim]

You might as well ask for a D77

[Dizzy]

Im not upset. Just confused as to how to make the player base happier. Do we need super BB's with the kind of shiplist we have on SG? Do we need BBV's? Personally I dont think so... but I'd like to hear from everyone else.

We have so many passionate players with sharp opinions. Its hard to relax.

Has this discussion gone anywhere? Mb we need a new thread that's focused.

[Hexx]

is to only allow the B10 series of BBs but use the CORRECT SFB FYA.  The B10s were never finished bedfore the Andro invasion, they never saw any action in the Gereal War time

Inviolable was for all intents and purposes complete in 84 

....When it admittedly got wrecked pretty fast.

Anyway nuf said, they were taken out before when no one flew them, and now that some people might be interested maybe they can get put back in.

I think the real issue everyone is dancing around is~ What can we do to make Lyran PF's more powerful?

[el-Karnak]

I think the real issue everyone is dancing around is~ What can we do to make Lyran PF's more powerful?

Hook up some Canuck beer kegs to the PF warp drives.

[Jacobyi]

Its not super "BB's." Its "A" BB, the Klink B11K, which has been in the game ever since SFC1 launched, its not some fly by night ship created by some wacko and thrown into the game. It has been play tested through YEARS of gameplay in SL and GZ leagues. And i have NEVER heard anyone call it unfair. I think what the coalition and myself find irritating is that it has been singled out. Its the only non carrier BB that wasnt included in this shiplist.

Personally i hate DN's, BB's, Carriers. I would love it if were a Heavy Cruiser and below server. But its not, so you have to fly the bigger ships when needed. Any player who has been around long enough knows the B10K is slightly inferior to its comparable counterparts. And i have to say i find this rather convienient for the Alliance lol. Klinks had it real rough 1st week and a half or so having to fly D7C's vs BF's and such. Now we have a couple of good ships in the C7 and FDW, but will again be outgunned when facing the Alliance's BBs and Carriers.

Not trying to be difficult here Dizzy, we all greatly appreciate your hard work on this server and keep up the good work. Just expressing a small grievence we have over here in Coalition land

[Dizzy]

Could you not be saying that you want the B10 before the YFA or 195 AND the B11? So you want your cake and eat it too? Its a big issue.

[Dfly]

So big that we see coalition flying BB's all the time right?  

As Jacobyi said, it is the only non-carrier BB not in the list.  The coalition people would like to see it re-inserted.  You asked, we replied, simple as that.

[Bonk]

Put the B11KVsupercalifragilisticexpialidocious in, if it will make the Klingons happy. They seem to want it really bad. It really does not matter. Not at all.

I really could not care less one way or the other, as long as there is a "mosh pit" or a "slot" equivalent on the map somewhere then I'm happy. 

BB = Boring...Boring... <yawn>

I have played SFC since before the Dynaverse and have never flown a battleship online, never. In fact I don't think I ever had one in a fleet of mine on the SFB hexmap either.

A SFB CnC compliant squadron of light cruisers can still own a battleship if flown well.

P.S. The Space Truck will crush any BB in its path! Hooah! Fear the Space Truck! 

[Dfly]

It sure can Bonk, and I am by no means saying the B11 is the utmost bestest ship out there(though it is a good BB) or that you would even see it flown much at all on a server, just that the coalition want to see it re-inserted.

[ShadowLord]

Its early in the morning and I haven't had my coffee yet -- but if I am reading this correctly then the issue at hand is the removal of certain BB from the Klingon ship list -- B11K B11KV to be specific.

The Klingon B10(K) cannot be expected to beat the ISC BB or the Gorn BB or the ROM BB etc etc unless those BB have been dummied down from their original shiplist.

I am not sure why the B11K is not being allowed --- Again as I am write this I don't have ship charts in front of me but I do seem to recall a match where I flew a B11K vs a Gorn BB and that Gorn did damn well.

If other BB's are allowed in the game why not the B11k?  (ya could always look up the weaps loadouts and post a response showing me how uber the B11K is vs other BB's -- if thats the case)

KHH_ShadowLord
Mirak RM SGO 6

[Dizzy]

Its not that its not being allowed. It's just not in yet. DH and I both have no issues with reinserting it along with a higher max iron cost. Not a biggie. The biggie is the introduction date.

[Hexx]

Its not that its not being allowed. It's just not in yet. DH and I both have no issues with reinserting it along with a higher max iron cost. Not a biggie. The biggie is the introduction date.

Actually ignoring BPV's (which one must admit don't translate well for our purposes) the B11 is a closer match for the Gorn BB or Rom BB than the B10K is.
~ Keep in mind that the BB's aren't a perfect translation either, both the Gorn and Rom should have fighters (6 & , The Fed should have 6 fighters instead of the 4 it has.The MNR should have 16 fighters...

All in all though I honeslty think it would be a much better idea to have the Klinks able to have 1 B10K launched in 84/85 and no one else able to have them at all.
Despite the fact they may be balanced across the board for SFB, it's not really the same thing as SFC

[KBF MalaK]

I really could not care less one way or the other, as long as there is a "mosh pit" or a "slot" equivalent on the map somewhere then I'm happy. 

BB = Boring...Boring... <yawn>

Yea baby ! Mosh pit rules !!!


Tho' I think this heavy iron thing is getting outta hand, my fav server is still KCW where heavy cruisers we're the max, and no cheesy droners in the list.

Ahh the good ole' days.