Topic: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?  (Read 1647 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
I know for myself I get bored rather quickly with the dynaverse.  One is placed witin one of two modes of gameplay.  Hex-flipping or PvP.  Hex-flipping is the lot of those too unskilled to match the dynaverse PvP elite and who, anyway, could not afford the capital ships that such PvP engagements require on this server and others in recent memory.  As I have suggested PvP would seem to be limited to those with the "skilz" and who are enough of a nutter to afford the capital ships.

I realize on this server that we have the mosh pit area which would seem to alleviate some of this situation, but the strategic situation of the server makes entering that area an untenable option.  I realize this is the playground of the regular players and especially of those that actually pay and work to have servers running, however I chafe at the notion that there is little role for the casual player on this particular server, and certainly little role within PvP battles that matter.

I would submit that the presence of capital ships and that of PvP points has potentially lessened the availability of player versus player interactions and with this server in particular that the existence of the 1 hex radius disengagement rule has also lessened PvP opportunities.  The PvP battles that are occurring on this particular server are the occassional accidental ones, and those that seem invariably to involve capital ships that are expensive and only "trusted" to the PvP elite, seemingly despite their actual inability to protect them from destruction.

If the purpose of PvP on the server is in some sense merely fun, then why must these exchanges be amongst ships only available to the few and the stakes of those battles particularly high?  If the role of PvP on this server is meant to be more strategic, why are many capital ships coming to an end with what seems to be a bit of frivolity?

If I could make a suggestion, I would suggest a serious reconsideration of the use of capital ships and their role on servers.  If the dynaverse PvP elite would be as happy jousting in CAs or CLs as the enjoyment is in the gameplay itself and not necessarily the strategic use of capital ships on the map, then why have the heavy metal there at all?  Frankly, the metal creates a system of haves and have-nots and actually puts the casual player on a significantly less even playing field than the nutters and PvP elites and decreases the number and frequency of honest PvP exchanges that occur amongst players in general.

I have not taken all of my thoughts to their logical conclusion, but I would suggest that I offered at least a little bit to get a discussion going.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 03:27:12 pm by Lepton »


System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2006, 04:26:23 pm »
Hex-flipping or PvP.  Hex-flipping is the lot of those too unskilled to match the dynaverse PvP elite and who, anyway, could not afford the capital ships that such PvP engagements require on this server and others in recent memory. 

I disagree. Capital ship affordability is 5k away from your starting pp. If you want the big big ones, then 15k. You dont have to work that hard for it. And it's not for the elite. Hippo isnt a regular and he was sporting a CVA earlier.

Quote
I realize on this server that we have the mosh pit area which would seem to alleviate some of this situation, but the strategic situation of the server makes entering that area an untenable option.  I realize this is the playground of the regular players and especially of those that actually pay and work to have servers running, however I chafe at the notion that there is little role for the casual player on this particular server, and certainly little role within PvP battles that matter.

The role is that at the center of this area there is a 10 PvP kill equivalent hex that if under your control at the end of the VC's in just under 6 hours from now could tip the scales and be the deciding factor if a side gets a VC point or not. PvP is crucial in this area if fought over and with no penalty for dying, there is plenty of incentive to duke it out mission after mission.

Casual players have a big role in PvP battles... With the way pvp points are setup a mere loss or two a a cruiser doesnt hurt that much at all. Especially when Duck and Tool are losing Dreads left and right and I keep losing multiship fleets, haha.

Quote
I would submit that the presence of capital ships and that of PvP points has potentially lessened the availability of player versus player interactions and with this server in particular that the existence of the 1 hex radius disengagement rule has also lessened PvP opportunities.  The PvP battles that are occurring on this particular server are the occassional accidental ones, and those that seem invariably to involve capital ships that are expensive and only "trusted" to the PvP elite, seemingly despite their actual inability to protect them from destruction.

Well... I suspect there are those few who simply have decided not to participate this server because of the 'area' disengage rule. I have come to notice, however, that it isnt that bad... There are two to three routes to working toward an objective and hoping between one or the other usually draws a response. I do agree it decreases PvP a little bit... but only so far as hex flippers are concerned. PvP players will find you no matter where you go, but if you are run out of a hex flippers hex, then he likely will continue working that hex and you'll have to wait to go in and stop him... But when do hex flippers pwn pvp players? Its an interesting dilema. But there are always places to go that are on the front lines that will draw a response.

Quote
If the purpose of PvP on the server is in some sense merely fun, then why must these exchanges be amongst ships only available to the few and the stakes of those battles particularly high?  If the role of PvP on this server is meant to be more strategic, why are many capital ships coming to an end with what seems to be a bit of frivolity?

We have lost two DN's Lepton, sh*t happens. We didnt throw them away. And exchanges between players do not always involve capital ships. The alliance didnt have any capital ships last night after duck and tool lost their dreads because of the heavy iron 12 hour penalty. PvP battles have involved cruisers for the most part which everyone can afford several. The limited heavy iron on the map allows 2 PvP's to be going on for the alliance at once. There are more than just two pvp opportunities when we have more than 6 players per side.

Quote
If I could make a suggestion, I would suggest a serious reconsideration of the use of capital ships and their role on servers.  If the dynaverse PvP elite would be as happy jousting in CAs or CLs as the enjoyment is in the gameplay itself and not necessarily the strategic use of capital ships on the map, then why have the heavy metal there at all?  Frankly, the metal creates a system of haves and have-nots and actually puts the casual player on a significantly less even playing field than the nutters and PvP elites and decreases the number and frequency of honest PvP exchanges that occur amongst players in general.

What? I've seen plenty of casual players fielding heavy iron. I know DH and I will fly cruisers and wing with newer or casual players in heavy iron so they have fun. We have done this before. This capital ships business flown by elite players only is total crap. It doesnt always happen.

Quote
I have not taken all of my thoughts to their logical conclusion, but I would suggest that I offered at least a little bit to get a discussion going.

yeah u got it going allright...

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2006, 04:46:39 pm »
Lepton has a point though.   The Disengagement rule, especially with radius, almost garantee that if your opponent is flying a DN/BCH with a veteran pilot and 2 verteran wings, you have to do the same or else you will get kicked out.  Going in with less than that or with newer pilots means you are out of the area. 

PvP is a means of controlling the map in the current setup, that is the reality we have created and it does suck for the "casual" players or for those who like to fly alone. 

I'm not a big fan of sending lambs to the slaughter, sending new guys (can you believe we STILL get new players in this game?) to fight Dfly, TT, Dib, etc is suicide (well, sending in t00l can have similar results . . . ).

Before the reset, I gave all my PP to a new player so he could fly a DNL for a few hours.  I stuck to him like glue that night to protect my investment  ;D  Big Iron can be flown be all on this server as "points" are instantly transferable to other pilots and 35k for a DN is not a lot for a 3 week server.

Um, any ideas for the future to make things better?
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


762_XC

  • Guest
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2006, 05:47:33 pm »
Having CA's cost PvP points is extremely n00b-unfriendly.

Offline Dfly

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1735
  • Lyran Alliance Lives
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2006, 05:50:35 pm »
Just in case some, especially newer guys, figure it is always the same guys in the Heavy metal, sometimes it sure seems that way.  I just would like to point out that although I  have been in a Dread for a couple nights, I am asking all my wingmen nearly every hour if someone else would like to take a DN out.  Others I know also do the same, though perhaps not all.  I will gladly step out of it in order to wing someone else who would like to try one for a while.  So far, no one has stepped up.  Today I sold it and went back to a heavy cruiser(proof on kills page).  This means that there is a vacant spot still for that heavy metal as no one took one.

Offline Dfly

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1735
  • Lyran Alliance Lives
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2006, 05:53:40 pm »
Having CA's cost PvP points is extremely n00b-unfriendly.

I do agree that it is noob-unfriendly.  I also know that if there were no points for the PvP in heavies, the PvP score as of 6 pm EST today would be a grand total of 12 for coalition, 3 for alliance.   Those are scary totals.   We have learned from previous Dynas that without counting PvP for something worthwhile we lose even more people.

762_XC

  • Guest
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2006, 06:17:11 pm »
That's a good point too Dfly, and I think it demonstrates the compromises we have to make in order to keep players interested in the game, both new and veteran.

I have been trying to find worthwhile things for the flippers (as I will casually refer to those who don't want to go up against the big guns) to do that will help the overall war cause. It is challenging at times but I think a big part of keeping both camps involved falls upon the RM's.

This is a good discussion; it gives me some food for thought as to how I handle the situation as an RM.

Maybe I'll start a feedback thread in the Alliance forum and ask players to post their thoughts regarding the issue.

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2006, 06:48:28 pm »
Perhaps I am remembering servers of old too well or not well enough, but I see nothing of the type of PvP battles I remember participating in on Storm Season 2.  Everyone was jockeying for position.  "Ooo.  Dizzy is coming out of mission, get him, etc."  Now it's all like, "Yeah,  DFly in his DN and Soth in his whatever are working hex so and so.  What ship combo should we take to get them?  blah, blah, blah."  This goes on for some time as the pondering and the ship trading occurs til a fleet is raised to engage them.

There is none of the ducking in and out of hexes that I have seen, just no activity at all to speak of.  Maybe I am on at the wrong time but I can tell you this setup feels totally different than ones of the past.  Perhaps it is just an effect of player numbers.  Perhaps I am totally off-base.


System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2006, 06:53:42 pm »
Hey,  Diz.

I am really not trying to be critical of anything you have set up.  It's not a criticism of you or your work.  It's a good server.  Interesting set-up.  I just think there may be some unintended consequences of the heavy metal rules, plus PvP points, plus disengage radius that are having an adverse effect on gameplay.  Maybe I am just in a bad mood.  Who knows?  It's still early in the server.  I guess we will see what people think more after it is over.


System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline KBF-Crim

  • 1st Deacon ,Church of Taldren
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12271
  • Gender: Male
  • Crim,son of Rus'l
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2006, 08:00:57 pm »
Yes and no...

Never before have we had so many toys....and so many rules... :)

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: Are we satisfied with the gameplay on SGO6 and dyna in general?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2006, 08:23:17 pm »
Lepton, I always value your opinion een if you have been given a few stfu's. You're right in that there isnt as much pvp... we have a fewer number of people. Im gonna make a poll to find out why peeps arnt playing. Im sure its a number of reasons. That later.

But yeah, funny as hell... thats what we do lepton talk about what combo to buy to kill the enemy, hehe. But what Dfly says is true of us. We ask others if they want to fly dreads. All the time.

We have had this discussion of PvP points before. 1 pt for a cruiser is very small considering over the course of a week you total the points and need a 2 to 1 ration of kills to get 1 VC point. 1 VC point is equal to having 2 disimilar map planets... So what Ive tried to do is tie in PvP in such a way that one can go lose a few cruisers and not kill their team totals while at the same time figuring in hex flippers. I think its balanced. Someone just needs to explain to noobs who get killed in cruisers that its OK to do so cuz they arnt losing their team that many points...

If someone has an idea of how to have more fun plz let me know. Im all for it.