Topic: The Kzinti might have appeared on Ent (Season 5)

[Alidar Jarok]

Apparently, the Kzinti were considered for Season 5 of Enterprise.  Apparently, they asked to use some of the ideas of Court Jones, who had previous made this:



Here is the ship they would have used.

http://www.glitchwerk.com/gallery/startrek.htm

[EmeraldEdge]

Hey, didn't they use a Kzinti style ship for some other race.  It seems I remember seening an episode when they were still doing all that time crap, and there was a ship that totally smacked of a Kzinti.

[Bonk]

Who is Court Jones? Aren't the Kzin Larry Niven's?

[Alidar Jarok]

I'm trying to figure out what exactly he did.  He appears to be an artist (who made this art).  There's something called "Lions of the Night" (here's another drawing for it).  I'm not sure if its a book or something else (and I'm not sure if he's illustrating it, writing it, etc).

I'll see if I can find out anything about him.

[Soreyes]

There's something called "Lions of the Night" (here's another drawing for it). 

Will you look at all those DF's 

[J. Carney]

Will you look at the DATE:

'04

Sorry, I think that we missed that one.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

There's something called "Lions of the Night" (here's another drawing for it). 

Will you look at all those DF's 

Not only that Soreyes look t the ship....





 I'm counting 16 drone racks.....

[Dracho]

Looks like the big gun from 5th Element

[EmeraldEdge]

Hey, now!  This makes no sense.  There are no drones/missiles in Trek!  It makes no sense, why would they use such an old technology?

This would have actually been great to see, and with the Romulan fighters (hey, there aren't fighters in Trek!) in that last Trek movie (can't remember the name, thank goodness... oh dang, it just popped in my head.  Nemesis) we have the makings of dispelling all the SFB poo-pooers.

I kind of wonder about that pic though.  It doesn't look like the Kzinti I'm used to.  You know, more like the Kilrathi (hey, both start with a K and end in I.  Coincidence?) from Wing Commander.  I wonder if they could have purchased some Kilrathi suits for cheap.  The Hero heads were pretty good  from what I remember.  I did a little search and it turns out the Kzinti from the guys alternate universe of novels (as in non-Trek) had bat ears, and some other features in their society that differ from the Trek versions (like females being nothing more than incubators for babies, with very little else going on up stairs).  I wonder if they were trying to inject more of the book elements into the Trek universe?

[IndyShark]

That looks pretty cool. Perhaps they will use it in the next Star Trek show.....

[F9thRyker]

Hey, now!  This makes no sense.  There are no drones/missiles in Trek!  It makes no sense, why would they use such an old technology?

Has everyone forgotten those homing missiles that Enterprise had in its first 2 seasons, or was I the only one not impressed by "photonic" torpedoes? 

[EmeraldEdge]

Wow, I did forget about those.

[Lepton]

A curse on all the Enterprise haters.  They deprived us of making the Kzin and drones cannon.

[Alidar Jarok]

Hey, now!  This makes no sense.  There are no drones/missiles in Trek!  It makes no sense, why would they use such an old technology?

Has everyone forgotten those homing missiles that Enterprise had in its first 2 seasons, or was I the only one not impressed by "photonic" torpedoes? 

I remembered them.  I thought they were pretty cool (served as something you didn't usually see in Trek).  Of course, they weren't as good as Kzin missiles, since they couldn't go through shields.  But the Enterprise (NX-01) doesn't have shields, so they would have been nasty to fight.

[EmeraldEdge]

A curse on all the Enterprise haters.  They deprived us of making the Kzin and drones cannon.

Hey, now.  Let's be fair.  The first few seasons of Enterprise went from bland and boring to complete suckage, for the most part.  Now, I loved the cast and thought they did an admirable job, but someone else was doing their awful best to destroy Trek, imo.  Still, Kzin and drone wars would have been nice, so a curse on all the Enterprise Producers/head writers.

[Dracho]

The kinetic energy alone of a missile going near the speed of light would be horrific.  Add some nasty 23rd century explosives to the nose and you have a serious problem.

Shields that reflect beam weapons may not perform as well against kinetic impacts.

[EmeraldEdge]

Exactly.

[Dracho]

Back in the mid-90's the military was playing around with kinetic ordinance.  Basically, it was a depleted uranium rod that accelerated to around mach 8-9 before impacting its target.  The kinetic force of the impact was so tremendous that they didn't even bother to put explosives on it.   

[J. Carney]

Back in the mid-90's the military was playing around with kinetic ordinance.  Basically, it was a depleted uranium rod that accelerated to around mach 8-9 before impacting its target.  The kinetic force of the impact was so tremendous that they didn't even bother to put explosives on it.   

Shoot... a SABOT round for an M1-A2 going about Mach 3 or so is devastating.

I'd hate to know what something going 3 times that fast could do.

[Dracho]

Back in the mid-90's the military was playing around with kinetic ordinance.  Basically, it was a depleted uranium rod that accelerated to around mach 8-9 before impacting its target.  The kinetic force of the impact was so tremendous that they didn't even bother to put explosives on it.   

Shoot... a SABOT round for an M1-A2 going about Mach 3 or so is devastating.

I'd hate to know what something going 3 times that fast could do.

I suspect, in a missile engagement in space, you'd always want to enage the enemy head-on, but avoid being engaged head-on at all costs (the space version of "Crossing The T") due to the relative speeds involved. 

2 cars colliding at 30 mph in a "T-bone" have a 30 mph collision.  Head-on it's a 60 mph collision.   A missile going .99c hitting a starship head-on that is also going .99c, well, they just had one hell of a collision.

It's also possible (and we'll never know until we do it) that there is an element of "compression" of space / time near 1.0c.  Fighter jets push a huge pressure wave in front of them at speeds just under the speed of sound (the reason the wings came off the old prop-fighters, before they knew to sweep them back), so a missile (or other kinetic ordinance, such as a mass driver) could actually hit and damage you twice.  The reality wave plays havoc with your shields just before the solid mass arrives.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Back in the mid-90's the military was playing around with kinetic ordinance.  Basically, it was a depleted uranium rod that accelerated to around mach 8-9 before impacting its target.  The kinetic force of the impact was so tremendous that they didn't even bother to put explosives on it.   

I believe those of us in BattleTech circles call that a Gauss Rifle. 

[Dracho]

Back in the mid-90's the military was playing around with kinetic ordinance.  Basically, it was a depleted uranium rod that accelerated to around mach 8-9 before impacting its target.  The kinetic force of the impact was so tremendous that they didn't even bother to put explosives on it.   

I believe those of us in BattleTech circles call that a Gauss Rifle. 

Only if an electromagnetic field is used to propel the bullet.   

[Alidar Jarok]

link

As an update (not sure if its accurate, since, while parts are sourced, it isn't entirely sourced), here's some more info about the episode, had it been made.

It has been recently disclosed that if Star Trek: Enterprise had been renewed for a fifth season, Manny Coto wanted to do a Kzinti episode. Much of the concept for the episode "Kilkenny Cats" (which was based on a story by Neal and Jana Hallford) were to draw from the earlier concept Star Trek: Lions of the Night by Jimmy Diggs. D.C. Fontana and André Bormanis were also involved in the editing of the script.

To get the producers convinced a "rough rendering" of a Kzinti starship based on the movies era Dark Stalker was produced for possible use. The artist Josh Finney said that he was "... commissioned by writer Jimmy Diggs to design an 'Enterprise' era Kzinti cruiser as part of an overall pitch to Paramount." He further said "As for my ship design, truth be told, Paramounts people would've probably re-designed it a billion times before it hit the screen. But, still, I would've at least provided the starting point for the concept."

It is notable that the concept design of the Kzinti vessel draws considerably from the Kzinti fleet as presented in the Star Fleet Universe, which have a similar layout to the design shown, including the same triple warp nacelle layout and pod-mounted drone (missile) launchers - as can be seen at Wikipedia. Jimmy Diggs did that on purpose hence three nacelles, but with more emphasise on creating a believable warship. The 2150s version combines aircrafts and submarines of World War II.

[GermzSlap]

It was damn shame that they cancelled enterprise, they show was  just started getting interesting in the last season, the beginnings of the fedreation, vulcan story that kind of thing and then they just cut it off like that. If they do a 5th season i just hope it wont be dumbed down for the general public, since the shows was cancelled because people stopped watching it.