Topic: Do black holes exist?

[Nemesis]

Link to full article

A controversial alternative to black hole theory has been bolstered by observations of an object in the distant universe, researchers say. If their interpretation is correct, it might mean black holes do not exist and are in fact bizarre and compact balls of plasma called MECOs.

According to the MECO theory, objects in our universe can never actually collapse to form black holes. When an object gets very dense and hot, subatomic particles start popping in and out of existence inside it in huge numbers, producing copious amounts of radiation. Outward pressure from this radiation halts the collapse so the object remains a hot ball of plasma rather than becoming a black hole.

I'd never heard of MECOs or this controversy. 

[E_Look]

I have always found it hard to truly or completely accept black holes.

This alternative sounds much better... more scientific, even, than black holes.

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Yes.


It's where you'll find today's Democrat party.

[Nemesis]

I have always found it hard to truly or completely accept black holes.

This alternative sounds much better... more scientific, even, than black holes.

I wonder how the MECO fits into the big bang theory or if it does.

[E_Look]

Just from what you posted, it doesn't seem to conflict with any big bang type idea.

Black holes always made me think of the issues about two hundred years ago with absolute zero: if you cool a gas enough, according the earliest data, it ought to collapse to zero volume; i.e. collapse on itself and become nothing.

In reality, shortly thereafter, it was discovered that volume approached a lower limit a temperature decreased.

I suspect many of the patterns found in nature on a certain level is, if not repeated, mimicked to some degree.  Why does it make sense to anyone that increasing mass (hence increasing gravitation) would cause a compaction to the point of infinitesimality??   

[Nemesis]

Considering that the Big Bang is supposed to start in a singularity consisting of all the mass in the universe I would think that implies a black hole.  Current theories for early post Bang time involves the creation of black holes ranging from quantum sizes to galactic sizes.  No black holes would change the dynamics and evolution of the early universe.  If the early universe proceeded differently than thought then intermediate events would need to be different to still end with the current visible universe.

A Sci Fi author (James P. Hogan) made a point about the big bang once.  He pointed out that if you try and predict the behaviour of matter based on a limited range of conditions you will extrapolate wrongly.  Water for example, study it at 1g and 1 atmosphere and between 50^oF and 150^oF and you will not extrapolate the boiling point, maximum density down around 40^oF and solidifying at 32^oF.  He pointed out that phase changes occur where the rules change.  Extrapolating backwards without limit you may reach a set of conditions where a phase change occurs and the rules change.  If you miss understanding something such as black holes then your extrapolation will be wrong.

If MECOs replace black holes then early conditions would be different and driven by different forces perhaps implying such a phase change as Hogan suggests.  Galactic cores would be different with powerful magnetic forces rather than just gravitational.  Even solar gravity would be somewhat different if the core reaches a maximum density as a magnetic plasma instead of degenerate matter and that density is lower and exists over a larger volume with magnetic forces reaching out to affect even more mass.  It might even explain why sustained fusion isn't working as wished. 

If MECOs replace black holes what about neutron stars and pulsars?  If they don't exist then the mechanisms of Novae may also have been wrong. 

Proving the MECO would result in reexamining a vast amount of physics and cosmology.  Just as relativity and quantum mechanics has.  A change such as this tends to cascade into other areas.

[Javora]

Yes.


It's where you'll find today's Democrat party.

Or an odd sock...   

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Yes.


It's where you'll find today's Democrat party.

Or an odd sock...   

                                   

[E_Look]

Nemesis, it could be rather somewhat more simply that at the beginning of the universe, it may be necessary philosophically, physically, to posit a singularity, and remember, it would "contain" the entire universe at that "point" and "time", as if these terms would have meaning in that situation, but after this mammoth expansion, where would the force(s) (equivalent to energy) needed to recompress something to a singularity again come from?  It's been diluted by volume and entropy!

[Just plain old Punisher]

Yes.


It's where you'll find today's Democrat party.

Or an odd sock...   

So that's whos been stealing my socks!!! Damn democrats!