Topic: VERY Large scale battles...

[Dizzy]

GSA limits you to 6 players with 3 ships. The OCI allows you on a dynaserver to field 6 ship fleets with 6 player slots... Fleet battle anyone?

Bonk and I figured this out while attempting to get working a 6 ship fleet for a PF Flotilla. The missions, havent tested them all, load my 6 ships and fleet control works fantastic with them but supply dock is an issue. We need to have webdocks that can resupply them all for this feature to work entirely as the ingame supplydock limits you to outfitting only 3 ships. We're looking into that tho.

Current issue is getting PF's to work as ships. So far we have used double donation in the shiplist to get one PF to carry another but a consequence causes the PF carrier to be immune to PlaD. So far I know that the Class_Type column of the shiplist requires PF to be listed for a ship in order for PlaD to fire at it. While the Hull_Type column may be changed to FF from FTR in order to get the PF to show in the shipyards (currently whether they are FTR or changed to FF they both show in the webyards), the game engine doesnt seem to care about the latter, the offending feature is PF and locks up not too long after starting the mission.

My idea was the game engine was looking for a ship name or class it didnt have. So I went into the strings folder cand gave it a shipname. That didnt seem to help. Im beginning to need some help figuring out how to get PF's to be flyable in the game engine w/o it locking up. Any ideas are helpful.

So farI've edited the strings.txt |HullName| and |ClassNames| and added 'pf' to them, but that didnt seem to fix it. Game still locks up after a while. Im not sure about the strings folder, how critical it is for the names to be right or in order or whatnot. Need help here.

Edit: Indeed the Class_Type column of the shiplist is at issue. PF Class Type seems to be the only way that PlaD will work against a ship. But selecting PF causes the ship not to have a ship name... which causes the game to lockup when said ship is played. How do I solve this... Hrmmm

[TraumaTech]

heya Dizzy and Bonk,and all you other I.T.  wizards out there,while your idea sounds great(and i mean that),is there absolutely no way to increase the number of players that can be fielded in a match up,like 6 players to 12.
          With all the configuring you guys do(great work btw) could you not add 6 more slots for players to join on at,and run them as ip games or soemthing like that to launch them.Imagine how many players(i think) would come back to sfc to give 12 player battles a try.I know this is wishful thinking on my part,but i think it would be a rockin good time ,IF POSSIBLE.

[Skaren]

WOW,. so your saying a 36 ship battle !!  Astounding !!

I would love to try that, can you imagine the confussion !!

In the old board game days such massive fleets caused a change in tactics where the entire fleet fires at long range and can still take out a ship.  I noticed in these games when you cannot launch a 20 ship fleet you cannot do that.

I bet players will develope new tactics a it will alter somewhat the nature of combat,... I think.

It may be a fun and exciting change ?

S

PS I would love to try flying in such a fleet.  This is only in Dyna right ?  Any way in hell it could work in multiplayer for my crew.   

[Lepton]

Is one player fielding six ships dependent upon one ship carrying another ship inside it, like the F5Q group or whatever it is and custom mission scripts??  Or is there the possibililty that whatever holds the ships that the player owns in the DB can be altered directly as you seem to suggest especially in an SQL-based server to exceed the limits of that the dynaverse interface imposes?

[Bonk]

heya Dizzy and Bonk,and all you other I.T.  wizards out there,while your idea sounds great(and i mean that),is there absolutely no way to increase the number of players that can be fielded in a match up,like 6 players to 12.
          With all the configuring you guys do(great work btw) could you not add 6 more slots for players to join on at,and run them as ip games or soemthing like that to launch them.Imagine how many players(i think) would come back to sfc to give 12 player battles a try.I know this is wishful thinking on my part,but i think it would be a rockin good time ,IF POSSIBLE.

We know that ding-dong. It is not possible to increase the maximum number of player in a mission without the client source. This is just about increasing the number of ships each player can have in mission.

[Bonk]

Is one player fielding six ships dependent upon one ship carrying another ship inside it, like the F5Q group or whatever it is and custom mission scripts??  Or is there the possibililty that whatever holds the ships that the player owns in the DB can be altered directly as you seem to suggest especially in an SQL-based server to exceed the limits of that the dynaverse interface imposes?

No, this is not using a carrying solution.We tested it onm the "stock" OP+4 shiplist in use on The Forge. I modified the OCI to allow purchase of 6 ships last night. (see the config paramters in the OCI thread ). Dizzy tested it and ran with six ships in mission. I have since set it back to 3 ships max. Theoretically I could set it higher than 6, though I'm not sure how much higher.

FleetAdmiral Dizzy (1445)
Empire: Gorn Confederation
Prestige: 27079 / 26292
(G-BB) HMCS Webmap
(G-MCC) HMCS Webmap
(G-DE) HMCS Webmap
(G-DDF) HMCS Webmap
(G-BCH) HMCS Webmap
(G-CLE) HMCS Webmap
HomeWorld: 15,9
Battles Played: 8
Last Logged On: Saturday, July 29, 2006
Location: 28,14

This works becasue the new shipyards in the OCI modify the shipcachevector directly instead of passing ships through the bid process as the old version did.

If you check the OCI wishlist, you will see I have a supply/repair dock on the list, which is completely feasible, just a matter of time.

Though I'm not sure this whole thing would be used much as we rarely see fleets allowed on the Dynaverse anyway. Though I would love to see it more. (and lets not get into that whole flamage on that issue again , thanks.)

[Dizzy]

Like I said, we stumbled upon this trying to get a 6 ship fleet of PF's to work. Since you cant supply 3 of them because the in game supplydock only supports 3, we need to get the webdock working. So for SG6, the 6 ship PF Fleet wont likely happen. Instead, we will likely go with a PF leader that carries 4 PF's and leave the scout PF out.

[Lepton]

Is one player fielding six ships dependent upon one ship carrying another ship inside it, like the F5Q group or whatever it is and custom mission scripts??  Or is there the possibililty that whatever holds the ships that the player owns in the DB can be altered directly as you seem to suggest especially in an SQL-based server to exceed the limits of that the dynaverse interface imposes?

No, this is not using a carrying solution.We tested it onm the "stock" OP+4 shiplist in use on The Forge. I modified the OCI to allow purchase of 6 ships last night. (see the config paramters in the OCI thread ). Dizzy tested it and ran with six ships in mission. I have since set it back to 3 ships max. Theoretically I could set it higher than 6, though I'm not sure how much higher.

FleetAdmiral Dizzy (1445)
Empire: Gorn Confederation
Prestige: 27079 / 26292
(G-BB) HMCS Webmap
(G-MCC) HMCS Webmap
(G-DE) HMCS Webmap
(G-DDF) HMCS Webmap
(G-BCH) HMCS Webmap
(G-CLE) HMCS Webmap
HomeWorld: 15,9
Battles Played: 8
Last Logged On: Saturday, July 29, 2006
Location: 28,14

This works becasue the new shipyards in the OCI modify the shipcachevector directly instead of passing ships through the bid process as the old version did.

If you check the OCI wishlist, you will see I have a supply/repair dock on the list, which is completely feasible, just a matter of time.

Though I'm not sure this whole thing would be used much as we rarely see fleets allowed on the Dynaverse anyway. Though I would love to see it more. (and lets not get into that whole flamage on that issue again , thanks.)

That is what I thought.  Modifying something directly via PHP and SQL.  Is there some documentation of what the various fields in the tables keep track of and what is contained in the various blobs?

[FPF-DieHard]

Maybe not for SG6, but perhaps a "slot" for fleets like we have for Heavy Metal and X-ships?  Used sparingly, I think this could be kinda cool.

The F&Eish OOB could be setup for ships in fleets which would have to be assign and sticked via the web interface.   I suspect attrition would be high in these groups as the AI is dumber than a box of rocks.   This opens up some interesting options . . .

[Bonk]

That is what I thought.  Modifying something directly via PHP and SQL.  Is there some documentation of what the various fields in the tables keep track of and what is contained in the various blobs?

Nope, zero documentation. Just what Dave, Intruder and I have decoded over the years.

[TraumaTech]

          With all the configuring you guys do(great work btw) could you not add 6 more slots for players to join on at,

We know that ding-dong. It is not possible to increase the maximum number of player in a mission without the client source. This is just about increasing the number of ships each player can have in mission.

   you sentence structure slut 

[FPF-Paladin]

Can this 36 ship ability be used in mission scripting?  I'm curious what invasion or fleet engagements would be like with this many or even 12v12 OOB structured fleets meeting in deep space (better, asteriod field ) ... just epic scale fleet battle kind of things.

[Bonk]

          With all the configuring you guys do(great work btw) could you not add 6 more slots for players to join on at,

We know that ding-dong. It is not possible to increase the maximum number of player in a mission without the client source. This is just about increasing the number of ships each player can have in mission.

   you sentence structure slut 

Oops, sorry about that, usually my reading comprehension is pretty good, but I was reading in a hurry. My apologies. 

[Bonk]

Can this 36 ship ability be used in mission scripting?  I'm curious what invasion or fleet engagements would be like with this many or even 12v12 OOB structured fleets meeting in deep space (better, asteriod field ) ... just epic scale fleet battle kind of things.

I know Dizzy ran a mission with a six ship fleet last night on standard scripts. Other than that I'm not sure. I'd bet Dizzy is pestering Dave about it already... 

[Dizzy]

Dave's scripts work fine the way they are. They will take your fleet and stick em in a mission... Rest is up to you and your fleet panel.

[NuclearWessels]

Whew 

[Dizzy]

Whew 

lol

[FPF-DieHard]

Um, what about my idea?   

[Dizzy]

Maybe not for SG6, but perhaps a "slot" for fleets like we have for Heavy Metal and X-ships?  Used sparingly, I think this could be kinda cool.

The F&Eish OOB could be setup for ships in fleets which would have to be assign and sticked via the web interface.   I suspect attrition would be high in these groups as the AI is dumber than a box of rocks.   This opens up some interesting options . . .

I think its a great idea, but since you can only outfit the 1st three ships... some races wont be properly supplied. We'll have to wait for the webdock for that.

Otherwise... there is a rule on SG's that says if players agree to a particular type of match they are free to play it for that match... So rather than a slot per say, just find an oppoenent(s) willing to take you on and call the hex.

[Riskyllama]

what if you just made standard pfs come fully loaded all the time?

[Icehawk]

ah yes 20 ships turning to attack the host player and ignore the other ais sounds like fun lol

[Bonk]

ah yes 20 ships turning to attack the host player and ignore the other ais sounds like fun lol

I have never had my own AI attack me. However, I do not run a software firewall.

[IAF Lyrkiller]

ah yes 20 ships turning to attack the host player and ignore the other ais sounds like fun lol

I have never had my own AI attack me. However, I do not run a software firewall.

Bonk, I am now using my laptop w/o a firewall and works great. now all I need to do is reinstall windows on my desktop syst.

I was on the Forge last night w/ my laptop, brought it out of retirement.

[FPF-DieHard]

Even whackier idea tha may or not be possible . .  .

What about setting up AI "bots" are "Large fleets" that an RM can place in a particular hex to defend it?  This would add real strategy to the game and make it more than who can fly the most missions.

Bonk, is this even possible?   

[Dizzy]

Even whackier idea tha may or not be possible . .  .

What about setting up AI "bots" are "Large fleets" that an RM can place in a particular hex to defend it?  This would add real strategy to the game and make it more than who can fly the most missions.

Bonk, is this even possible?   

This is a mission script idea. ED would need to hex seed it so the draw requirement dictates it only rear its ugly head in the hex the map maker sets up.

[Bonk]

Bonk, I am now using my laptop w/o a firewall and works great. now all I need to do is reinstall windows on my desktop syst.

I was on the Forge last night w/ my laptop, brought it out of retirement.

Saw ya on there, nice to see the name up there again. 

Even whackier idea tha may or not be possible . .  .

What about setting up AI "bots" are "Large fleets" that an RM can place in a particular hex to defend it?  This would add real strategy to the game and make it more than who can fly the most missions.

Bonk, is this even possible?   

I could try creating such an AI character, now whether it would come up in mission and with all its ships I'm not sure. Also, server AIs move on the map, but I think that can be disabled. It just might be possible, but would take some experimentation to find out.

I suspect though, that mission AI is separate from server AI and server AI will not appear in mission, in which case Dizzy's assesment is correct.

[FPF-DieHard]

Okay, so it can't work.   

[NuclearWessels]

Even whackier idea tha may or not be possible . .  .

What about setting up AI "bots" are "Large fleets" that an RM can place in a particular hex to defend it?  This would add real strategy to the game and make it more than who can fly the most missions.

Bonk, is this even possible?   

This is a mission script idea. ED would need to hex seed it so the draw requirement dictates it only rear its ugly head in the hex the map maker sets up.

And of course the missions can't control what hex number something shows up in, only the hex type. 

We could designate some particular hex terrain type that is only used for that purpose, then let the RM's pick their hexes and the admin could edit the terrain type of those hexes so the special mission could appear there, but again the AI bots would be script generated.

dave

[Dizzy]

Irs not needed for this server. What needs to be done is a list needs to be compiled of all the different sort of map terrain choices we have so we know how many special scripts can be made. Then they need to be documented so the map makers and admins know what hexes they need to define so they appear.

Already, I have 2 or 3 special mission types that use varied terrain. I need to document it so they wont overlap.

[Bonk]

What needs to be done is a list needs to be compiled of all the different sort of map terrain choices we have...

Ask and ye shall receive:

Thought this worthy of note:

Terrains:

artifex stock defs
0="(none)"
1="Black Hole"
2="Asteroid 1"
3="Asteroid 2"
4="Asteroid 3"
5="Asteroid 4"
6="Asteroid 5"
7="Nebula 1"
8="Nebula 2"
9="Nebula 3"
10="Shipping Lane"

stock map
0="(none)"
1="Blackhole1"
2="Blackhole2"
3="Blackhole3"
4="Blackhole4"
5="Blackhole5"
6="Blackhole6"
7="Asteroid 1"
8="Asteroid 2"
9="Asteroid 3"
10="Asteroid 4"
11="Asteroid 5"
12="Nebula 1"
13="Nebula 2"
14="Nebula 3"
15="Shipping Lane"

my artifex new defs
0="(none)"
1="Asteroid 1"
2="Asteroid 2"
3="Asteroid 3"
4="Asteroid 4"
5="Asteroid 5"
6="Asteroid 6"
7="Black Hole"
8="Blackhole1"
9="Blackhole2"
10="Blackhole3"
11="Blackhole4"
12="Blackhole5"
13="Blackhole6"
14="Dustclouds"
15="Nebula 1"
16="Nebula 2"
17="Nebula 3"
18="Nebula 4"
19="Nebula 5"
20="Nebula 6"
21="Shipping Lane"
22="Space 1"
23="Space 2"
24="Space 3"
25="Space 4"
26="Space 5"
27="Space 6"

scripting api and serverkit (mapconstants.h)
kTerrainSpace1      = 1 << 0,
kTerrainSpace2      = 1 << 1,
kTerrainSpace3      = 1 << 2,
kTerrainSpace4      = 1 << 3,
kTerrainSpace5      = 1 << 4,
kTerrainSpace6      = 1 << 5,
kTerrainAsteroids1      = 1 << 6,
kTerrainAsteroids2      = 1 << 7,
kTerrainAsteroids3      = 1 << 8,
kTerrainAsteroids4      = 1 << 9,
kTerrainAsteroids5      = 1 << 10,
kTerrainAsteroids6      = 1 << 11,
kTerrainNebula1      = 1 << 12,
kTerrainNebula2      = 1 << 13,
kTerrainNebula3      = 1 << 14,
kTerrainNebula4      = 1 << 15,
kTerrainNebula5      = 1 << 16,
kTerrainNebula6      = 1 << 17,
kTerrainBlackHole1      = 1 << 18,
kTerrainBlackHole2      = 1 << 19,
kTerrainBlackHole3      = 1 << 20,
kTerrainBlackHole4      = 1 << 21,
kTerrainBlackHole5      = 1 << 22,
kTerrainBlackHole6      = 1 << 23,
kTerrainDustclouds      = 1 << 24,
kTerrainShippingLane      = 1 << 25,
kTerrainNone      = 1 << 26,

ALSO, from a stock or artifex generated map:

[Classes/Cell/Economic]
type="int"
range="0<5<35"
[Classes/Cell/Impedence]
type="float"
range="0.01<1.0<100.0"
[Classes/Cell/Strength]
type="int"
range="0<50<100"

Note the max economy value...

All these terrain types as they appear in the SQL db:

0="(none)"-->67108864
1="Asteroid 1"-->64
2="Asteroid 2"-->128
3="Asteroid 3"-->256
4="Asteroid 4"-->512
5="Asteroid 5"-->1024
6="Asteroid 6"-->2048
7="Black Hole"-->262144
8="Blackhole1"-->262144
9="Blackhole2"-->524288
10="Blackhole3"-->1048576
11="Blackhole4"-->2097152
12="Blackhole5"-->4194304
13="Blackhole6"-->8388608
14="Dustclouds"-->16777216
15="Nebula 1"-->4096
16="Nebula 2"-->8192
17="Nebula 3"-->16384
18="Nebula 4"-->32768
19="Nebula 5"-->65536
20="Nebula 6"-->131072
21="Shipping Lane"-->33554432
22="Space 1"-->1
23="Space 2"-->2
24="Space 3"-->4
25="Space 4"-->8
26="Space 5"-->16
27="Space 6"-->32

Note however, we encountered difficulties with mixed mission sets where not all were aware of all terrain types. (at least I think that was the issue I encountered when I used them all on The Forge, though I think I confused the issue in testing by using the Rogue Pirates on the empire map as well with only some TG missions aware of them...)  For now it is best to stick to those defined in the stock map. Though if a mission set is used where all scripts are aware of all the terrain types used, then theoretically it should work for the full set of 28 terrain types defined in the API. Though a scripter may be able to say better, as I suspect that all scripts already are aware of these terrain types because of the header file included in the scripting API. This definitely needs more testing.

[NuclearWessels]

... big snip ...
 I suspect that all scripts already are aware of these terrain types because of the header file included in the scripting API. This definitely needs more testing.

Correct, all scripts have to include that header, and the overwhelming majority simply rely on one of the collective map specifications,
kTerrainSpace, kTerrainAsteroids, kTerrainNebula, kTerrainBlachkholes, kTerrainAnyTerrain

Code: [Select]

kTerrainSpace = kTerrainSpace1 | kTerrainSpace2 | kTerrainSpace3 |
  kTerrainSpace4 | kTerrainSpace5 | kTerrainSpace6,

kTerrainAsteroids = kTerrainAsteroids1 | kTerrainAsteroids2 | kTerrainAsteroids3 |
  kTerrainAsteroids4 | kTerrainAsteroids5 | kTerrainAsteroids6,

kTerrainNebula = kTerrainNebula1 | kTerrainNebula2 | kTerrainNebula3 |
  kTerrainNebula4 | kTerrainNebula5 | kTerrainNebula6,

kTerrainBlackholes = kTerrainBlackHole1 | kTerrainBlackHole2 |
  kTerrainBlackHole3 | kTerrainBlackHole4 |
  kTerrainBlackHole5 | kTerrainBlackHole6,

kTerrainAnyTerrain = kTerrainSpace | kTerrainAsteroids | kTerrainNebula | kTerrainBlackholes |
  kTerrainDustclouds | kTerrainShippingLane,
(with similar collective settings for the planet/base types)

Note that if a mission is generated in a map hex where the terrain type isn't recognized then the missions go with the default empty space map.

dave

[Dizzy]

You forgot 2 seperate entries. Planet drop down allows you to select asteroid base1-3

and

Base dropdown allows you to select weapons platform and listening post.

All can be combined, or used in combinations.

[Bonk]

I guess I'll try the full set of terrains on the next Forge map so we can play with them.

Yes Diz, good point, the presence of planet or base types can also be used in this manner, though I was thinking only of terrains.

[Dizzy]

well, they have been used in this manner already. Work well to restricting the mission to that hex. Very effective.