Topic: Dial Up Question (Read 6914 times)

FCM_SFHQ_XC · « **on:** July 18, 2006, 12:48:11 pm »

I recently have been working to increase the speed of of my dial up connection and one of the ways I have been TRYING to do this is filter out the noise in the phone line..now I can get a in noise filter (if a line noise filter does work) but I do have this DSL filter.. would a DSL filter help out my connection speed even though I am not on DSL(yet )??

P.S. I tried the DSL box and it isnt helping my connection that much so will a line noise filter help?

Just plain old Punisher · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2006, 02:58:47 pm »

No, I DSL filter won't help you in this case.

Line noise depends on a great deal many things. You can try to sort out line noise issues by purchasing a digital phone line from your local phone company, but that would probably cost as much as high speed internet.

FCM_SFHQ_XC · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2006, 03:04:51 pm »

Digital Phone Line..That actually would cost MORE then DSL currently

Just plain old Punisher · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2006, 04:29:33 pm »

Well thems the breaks, and to be honest, you probably won't get much more performance out of your dialup modem in any case. The FCC limits dialup connections to 53kbps at most.

You can attempt to rewire your home to try and isolate potential causes of line noise, but in the end, most of the line noise out there isn't due to your homes wiring. It happens as a result of all the various connections between you and your dialup providers computers.

Sirgod · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2006, 06:08:17 pm »

THere's a few things you might try.
Try to keep the phone line as short as possible, if at possible. (work area etc.)
Try to keep all appliances or Electric devices, as far away as possible.

Things you can look at but might not be able to do anything about.
Is there any construction going on nearyour place, or Phone box?
IF your very good with Phone wires, you can make your own using a heavier cable. It'll look funny, but hey whatever works to get the insulation you might need.

Heh, It reminds me years ago, I worked for AOHell, and this one guy kept having line noise problems. We contacted the phone company, everything. When I asked him if there was construction or the like, He responded, well they are working on the Nuclear reactor down the road about 500 yards. I couldn't help but LOL at that one.

Stephen

Bonk · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2006, 06:23:27 pm »

In my experience the number one cause of noise on the phone line is having cheap phones and/or fax machines on the line. Also having an excessive number of devices plugged into the line will cause problems, as they all draw power from the line reducing the voltage available for the actual signal to be carried on.

Try unplugging everything in the house that is attached to the phone line except the modem you are using to connect, and plug it directly into the wall for this test. Then try adding the other devices back on one at a time to see which one introduces the most noise. I would be particularly suspicious of cordless phones. If possible use a USR modem, accept no substitutes, especially "softmodems". If internet activity produces CPU load, get rid of it and get a real hardware modem.

Myself, I use "The Stick" to power devices on the line and handle switching tasks. It has a lot of dandy features, but I don't know if I'd fork out for a new one, I got this one for $5 at a yard sale.

Some surge protectors also include a filter for a phone line which helps protect against surges to the PC through the phone line but will not do anything for noise on the other side of it.

Also ensure the com port settings for the modem are appropriate, and check the parameters for the modem configuration button on the connection properties general tab and try various combinations of the "Enable hardware flow control", "Enable modem error control" and "Enable modem compresion" settings (generally best with all on if available). Also check the networking tab of the connection properties and under settings for the type of dial up server try enabling software compression and LCP extensions if not enabled. Also on the networking tabe try disabling any unnecssay protocols, TCP/IP is all that is required. Also check your modem settings for any weird init strings. If present, copy and save them somewhere and try removing them, or try a manufacturer reccomended one if any.

Sirgod · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2006, 06:43:48 pm »

Aargh. Bonk you just gave me a flashback to Com port switching with win 3.1 and 95.

Bad bonk, bad bonk.

Stephen

Bonk · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2006, 07:15:53 pm »

Quote from: Stephen NCC -73070 on July 18, 2006, 06:43:48 pm

Aargh. Bonk you just gave me a flashback to Com port switching with win 3.1 and 95.

Bad bonk, bad bonk.

Stephen

Sigh... the good 'ol days. They weren't that bad. RS-232 is your friend! Let's leave GPIB out of it...

Sirgod · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2006, 07:45:20 pm »

Quote from: Bonk on July 18, 2006, 07:15:53 pm

Quote from: Stephen NCC -73070 on July 18, 2006, 06:43:48 pm
Aargh. Bonk you just gave me a flashback to Com port switching with win 3.1 and 95.

Bad bonk, bad bonk.

Stephen

Sigh... the good 'ol days. They weren't that bad. RS-232 is your friend! Let's leave GPIB out of it...

That I can understand, all this New THp sql backed with WHQL WYSIWYG stuff you keep going about just confusies me. I remember when a Hard Drive had two cables, and It was a headache to deal with dip switches and Jumpers.

Anyway, where' not helping him at all, poor guy.

<snikers> Is this where I suggest to him to go Sattelite to give you more problems Bonk?

BTW, I did a rather large Graphic intensive thread in H&S, I was just curious if It generated errors for you, as I haven't posted Graphic for a week or so. Thought It might also help in tracking down the problem.

Stephen

FCM_SFHQ_XC · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:18:26 pm »

OK I live in a big house, so I have.. lets see..6 phones in the house.. 5 are cordless.. the computer is sitting directly above the phone jack and I am using the shortest wire I have. It does go into the surge protector to protect from surges. Modem is a GTW V.92 Voicemodem.. no real construction going on in my area, though the phone lines were cut accidental with the construction back about 7 months ago.. also no fax machines in the house.. will try some of the stuff suggested to see if it helps

Oh, and I have the Extra Initialization Command at X0 (ISP Approved) and my ISP is Earthlink(was called Mindspring back in the 1990's)

Bonk · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:22:23 pm »

Quote from: Stephen NCC -73070 on July 18, 2006, 07:45:20 pm

BTW, I did a rather large Graphic intensive thread in H&S, I was just curious if It generated errors for you, as I haven't posted Graphic for a week or so. Thought It might also help in tracking down the problem.

Those errors I'm seeing are generated only by DirecWay users, no one else, and they only occur when the [more] smilies popup is used. I'd suspect a problem with the javascript generated by the SMF code but it works for everyone but DirecWay users. Perhaps there is something about the javascript that bugs out the DirecWay proprietary packet compression... I'm still baffled by it.

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						[":woot:","woot.gif","Woot"]],
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						[":tonybanks:","keyboards.gif","Keyboards"]],
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						[":stopposting:","stop-posting.png","Stop Posting, your wasting Space"]],
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						[":troll:","Dont Feed the Trolls.gif","Dont feed the trolls"],
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					smileyPopupWindow.document.write('\n\t<head>\n\t\t<title>Additional smileys</title>\n\t\t<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/Themes/Pure_Dark/style.css" />\n\t</head>');
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Bonk · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:26:23 pm »

Quote from: Capt_SFHQ_XC on July 18, 2006, 08:18:26 pm

lets see..6 phones in the house.. 5 are cordless..

Bingo... try unplugging them all. (EDIT: from the phone line as well as power) You will not see the effect without reconnecting to your ISP with the modem after all the phones have been removed from the circuit. And skip the surge protector for now just to test. Then add it back in when you know its not the problem.

Though if some of these phones are in your folk's or sister's room etc. they might not be too understanding. Make sure they are agreeable to such a test before you go ahead.

Quote

GTW V.92 Voicemodem

Ah, that is a Gateway softmodem... You could try updating the drivers to the latest if they are not already. Are you using a Gateway laptop? Does it have a PCMCIA slot? If so you might consider a hardware PCMCIA modem, they can be found pretty cheap nowadays, but it may not be worth it if you have DSL on the way.

Sirgod · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:31:39 pm »

Bonk is right, those GHz phones cause all kinda havock . If you don't need them, (I'd say one at the most), go with land lines for them. It will help a hell of alot.

Bonk, Here in a few months, I'll try another Sat. con Maybe hughs net. I'll pass that Info along, for all the good it will do, I don't think those Peeps over there even know how to spell Computer.

Stephen

Bonk · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:35:28 pm »

Quote from: Stephen NCC -73070 on July 18, 2006, 08:31:39 pm

Bonk, Here in a few months, I'll try another Sat. con Maybe hughs net. I'll pass that Info along, for all the good it will do, I don't think those Peeps over there even know how to spell Computer.

No need to change ISPs on account of just this. Its just driving me nuts, even though its not that big a deal.

E_Look · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:56:26 pm »

My kids access the 'Net on their rigs from my wireless router and right next to their two machines is a cordless phone (and we have a few more around the house, so when they unplugged it, there's still interference with the reception). Never have I ever heard such whining. No matter. I have zero sympathy for kids who play too much online (an hour is fifty minutes too much). Doing honest work on the computer does not require any wireless, cordless anything... just some readin' 'n' 'ritin' and mebbe sum 'rithmetic (or diff eq's or programmin').

P.S. Even if they switch from whatever silly anime-sopped kiddie game they play to SFC on one of you guys' servers, I'd be again' it. Kids play too much onlne these days. Hail the cordless phone! They can be a parent's secret weapon to outdo even Punisher's evil tech.

Bonk · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2006, 08:45:55 am »

More than 10 minutes on the phone is a waste of time...

Cordless phones are not going to affect a wireless router (probably not at all) in the same way they could affect dial-up. Their affecting dial-up has nothing to do with being cordless actually, it has to do with an excessive number of cheap devices being plugged into the phone line, drawing power and introducing noise.

I would agree, wireless internet is for the birds, its not going to maintain a stable connection under any circumstances. No matter what. Trying to maintain remote Desktop/VNC sessions would be desperately frustrating.

Cordless phones are a good thing for the physically challenged, other than that I have no time for the goddamn phone at all.

Gaming is a better, more healthy use of an internet connection than spewing hateful poitical bile over and over and over for years at time which nobody cares about anyway and is doing nothing for you... At least gaming is fun, that is what this website is about despite what some may think.

Dracho · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2006, 09:38:04 am »

Another thing you can do is go to Radio Shack and get a spool of phone wire for around $12. Run a wire directly from the phone box to your computer (you'll need a jack as well). Most houses have several patches in the wiring and each one degrades the quality of the line and introduces noise.

Sirgod · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2006, 09:46:06 am »

Good idea. If he lived closer, I have a spool of Tele wire, almost 1000' from when I had to put jacks in our Mobel homes out here.

Stephen

Jack Morris · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2006, 10:16:30 am »

Quote from: Bonk on July 19, 2006, 08:45:55 am

More than 10 minutes on the phone is a waste of time...

Cordless phones are not going to affect a wireless router (probably not at all) in the same way they could affect dial-up. Their affecting dial-up has nothing to do with being cordless actually, it has to do with an excessive number of cheap devices being plugged into the phone line, drawing power and introducing noise.

I would agree, wireless internet is for the birds, its not going to maintain a stable connection under any circumstances. No matter what. Trying to maintain remote Desktop/VNC sessions would be desperately frustrating.

Cordless phones are a good thing for the physically challenged, other than that I have no time for the goddamn phone at all.

Gaming is a better, more healthy use of an internet connection than spewing hateful poitical bile over and over and over for years at time which nobody cares about anyway and is doing nothing for you... At least gaming is fun, that is what this website is about despite what some may think.

*****************************************************************************************************************

I printed your response Bonk, and yes, I'm guilty of being on Hot and Spicy too much too.

I'm gonna post it by my P/C on my desk to remind me everyday about the good ole days when I was addicted to SFC and EAW and OP and never spent too much time on the H&S forums.

Jack Morris · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2006, 10:17:51 am »

I'm custom building sunscreens, and that saves me money on my electric bill. That is accomplishing something that is within my control.

It's hotter than Hades here in central TX and no rain or relief in sight.

Dash Jones · « **Reply #20 on:** July 19, 2006, 10:35:13 am »

Here's something on topic, but off topic as well. There are some portions of the US in the Utah and Nevada deserts that have NO DSL or cable. In fact it's either satellite or dial-up for your provider. Cellphones won't work in certain areas either since they have no Cell phone antennas (don't know what those points are called, but big antennas which receive and send cellphone signals, is it a hub?) either, so normally one has to use a normal phone...especially in the middle of the Mountains. I suppose that also includes parts of Colorado as well. The Mountains block a lot of the signals. With satellite if you're in the wrong spot (especially in a valley) it can disrupt a lot of the signals and make satellite useless as well.

Unfortunately when I go there for visits either to see it in the summer, or ski in the winter in those areas, I can't access some sites because dial-up just takes forever to access them.

Luckily I'm not on dial-up most of the time though.

Of course at school, it's annoying because even if I'm on a really fast line, I'm so busy the only internet surfing I seem to do is for research.

E_Look · « **Reply #21 on:** July 19, 2006, 10:40:53 am »

Quote from: Bonk on July 19, 2006, 08:45:55 am

More than 10 minutes on the phone is a waste of time...

Cordless phones are not going to affect a wireless router (probably not at all) in the same way they could affect dial-up. Their affecting dial-up has nothing to do with being cordless actually, it has to do with an excessive number of cheap devices being plugged into the phone line, drawing power and introducing noise.

I would agree, wireless internet is for the birds, its not going to maintain a stable connection under any circumstances. No matter what. Trying to maintain remote Desktop/VNC sessions would be desperately frustrating.

Oh, it seems that a cordless phone DOES affect the adaptor card (receiver of router signal) even if they're not supposed to. In fact, there has been a marginal improvement since the nearby cordless phone got unplugged.

Quote from: Bonk on July 19, 2006, 08:45:55 am

Cordless phones are a good thing for the physically challenged, other than that I have no time for the goddamn phone at all.

For the rest of us, it makes the attempt to "multiplex" a little easier too!

Quote from: Bonk on July 19, 2006, 08:45:55 am

Gaming is a better, more healthy use of an internet connection than spewing hateful poitical bile over and over and over for years at time which nobody cares about anyway and is doing nothing for you... At least gaming is fun, that is what this website is about despite what some may think.

Ouch! That hurt! Ow! Ow! Ow!

And well... you probably wouldn't accept kids who temporarily swiped Dad's plastic to play SFC online! All you guys who shoot plasma, hellbores, disruptors... well, you're all grown men and women... at least I think most of you are; I'll bet some of you DID swipe your Daddy's card while he snoozed and slipped it back before he woke. And I use the resources of your website to enhance or update my standalone play of my four SFC versions (due to HD issues, I only have SFC1 up and running minimally... but give me a couple of decades; I'll get all four running with the latest models and missions and... <and the camera backs away as Linus continues to harangue Charlie Brown... {insert lively cool jazz}> )

FCM_SFHQ_XC · « **Reply #22 on:** July 19, 2006, 11:24:22 am »

Its a good thing I am a only child then

... I will try those experiments tonight.

Not a laptop, this is a 4 year old Gateway Desktop computer.

Just plain old Punisher · « **Reply #23 on:** July 19, 2006, 06:33:52 pm »

Quote

Oh, it seems that a cordless phone DOES affect the adaptor card (receiver of router signal) even if they're not supposed to. In fact, there has been a marginal improvement since the nearby cordless phone got unplugged.

Since both cordless phones and 802.11b/g operates on 2.4 ghz, they can and do interfere with each other on occasion. Even microwave ovens have been known to interfere with router signals.

FCM_SFHQ_XC · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2006, 09:22:51 am »

Testing finished.. BEFORE: 36.0 Kbps on average After removing the phones: 49.6 Kbps .. I removed the phone causing the slow down for good, so its back up to normal pretty much

Bonk · « **Reply #25 on:** July 20, 2006, 11:50:50 am »

Quote from: Punisher NCC-2000 on July 19, 2006, 06:33:52 pm

Quote
Oh, it seems that a cordless phone DOES affect the adaptor card (receiver of router signal) even if they're not supposed to. In fact, there has been a marginal improvement since the nearby cordless phone got unplugged.

Since both cordless phones and 802.11b/g operates on 2.4 ghz, they can and do interfere with each other on occasion. Even microwave ovens have been known to interfere with router signals.

Yes, I am aware of that possibility, heck even a vacuum cleaner or TV or air conditioner...etc. could interfere. But in this case the interaction would have been on the wired phone circuit itself as there is no wireless router involved. Wireless is completely unreliable, dont even get me started... heck, even UTP is substandard to coax, but laziness, cost and "user friendlyness" wins out over quality every time in this world, sigh....

(Check this post out: http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163368540.msg1122726814.html#msg1122726814)

Quote from: Capt_SFHQ_XC on July 20, 2006, 09:22:51 am

Testing finished.. BEFORE: 36.0 Kbps on average After removing the phones: 49.6 Kbps .. I removed the phone causing the slow down for good, so its back up to normal pretty much

* Bonk Pats self on back

As expected, usually just one cheap or badly made phone can do it, all it takes is one leaky capacitor... Good job on tracking it down.

49.6 Kbps is pretty much the max you'll see on most phone lines.

Dracho · « **Reply #26 on:** July 20, 2006, 12:01:42 pm »

Quote from: Bonk on July 20, 2006, 11:50:50 am

Quote from: Punisher NCC-2000 on July 19, 2006, 06:33:52 pm
Quote
Oh, it seems that a cordless phone DOES affect the adaptor card (receiver of router signal) even if they're not supposed to. In fact, there has been a marginal improvement since the nearby cordless phone got unplugged.

Since both cordless phones and 802.11b/g operates on 2.4 ghz, they can and do interfere with each other on occasion. Even microwave ovens have been known to interfere with router signals.

Yes, I am aware of that possibility, heck even a vacuum cleaner or TV or air conditioner...etc. could interfere. But in this case the interaction would have been on the wired phone circuit itself as there is no wireless router involved. Wireless is completely unreliable, dont even get me started... heck, even UTP is substandard to coax, but laziness, cost and "user friendlyness" wins out over quality every time in this world, sigh....

(Check this post out: http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163368540.msg1122726814.html#msg1122726814)

Quote from: Capt_SFHQ_XC on July 20, 2006, 09:22:51 am
Testing finished.. BEFORE: 36.0 Kbps on average After removing the phones: 49.6 Kbps .. I removed the phone causing the slow down for good, so its back up to normal pretty much

* Bonk Pats self on back

As expected, usually just one cheap or badly made phone can do it, all it takes is one leaky capacitor... Good job on tracking it down.

49.6 Kbps is pretty much the max you'll see on most phone lines.

It can be worse. I had 512K line-of-sight wireless at my old house because it was my only "high speed" option. I thought it was bad. It's not available at my new house and I had to go satellite. Holy crap is it bad! It downloads files quickly, but the latency makes even opening a web page about the same as dial-up.

Bonk · « **Reply #27 on:** July 20, 2006, 12:19:48 pm »

Dial-up latency is superior to satellite by about a factor of two. Typical ping times on dial-up are ~200-400ms. Typical ping times on satellite are ~500-1000ms. Dial-up can be used for multiplayer gaming (depending on the game and traffic type) where it is just not feasible on satellite service.

FCM_SFHQ_XC · « **Reply #28 on:** July 20, 2006, 12:23:59 pm »

Quote

* Bonk Pats self on back

As expected, usually just one cheap or badly made phone can do it, all it takes is one leaky capacitor... Good job on tracking it down.

49.6 Kbps is pretty much the max you'll see on most phone lines.

I have actually gotten 56 Kbps before

that was back about 4 years ago though now the highest I usually get is 53.2 Kbps

Commander Maxillius · « **Reply #29 on:** July 20, 2006, 06:51:05 pm »

You're pretty much at the mercy of the lines on the pole as anything you could possibly do inside won't affect your connection speed one way or the other. At my house the most I ever got was 50.6, lowest was 14.4 (very stormy night with the power out and the laptop on battery) but the average was 46.6. Without fail it would drop below 40 whenever it rained, I think one of the phone boxes on my street has a leak in it.

Bonk · « **Reply #30 on:** July 20, 2006, 07:36:39 pm »

Quote from: Commander Maxillius on July 20, 2006, 06:51:05 pm

You're pretty much at the mercy of the lines on the pole

Yes, (FCC power limit) but...

Quote from: Commander Maxillius on July 20, 2006, 06:51:05 pm

anything you could possibly do inside won't affect your connection speed one way or the other.

Definitely not the case, I'm pretty sure we've just proved otherwise here.

If I remove "The Stick" I am using here to power and isolate a fax and other phones, my connection speed will drop from 31.2 Kbps to 19.2 Kbps. Excessive devices or really cheap devices on the circuit inside the house will definitely affect things.

As a former instumental analytical chemist I know signal to noise issues and their many sources far better than I would care to recall.

You can definitely adversely affect your connection speed by what you do with the circuit inside the house.

In case you don't believe me:

Quote

Anything connected to your phone line, as well as the integrity of your phone wiring can affect your modem.

http://modemsite.com/56k/demarc.asp

http://modemsite.com/56k/trouble.asp

http://productsandservice.aliant.net/PS/nb/english/helpandsupport/hs_display.jsp?section=81&subsection=1&bodycont=helpandsupport%2fhtml%2flocalps1_4_howto_7.html&curbody=81_4

http://www.free-dialup.net/free-dialup-uk-articles/best-dialup-uk.html

http://www.csa-intl.org/onlinestore/GetCatalogDrillDown.asp?Parent=187

http://www.it.cmich.edu/faq/faq_network_dialup.asp#disconnect

http://www.modem-help.co.uk/modblame.html

http://www.cctec.com/maillists/nanog/historical/9809/msg00011.html

etc. etc. etc...

IAF Lyrkiller · « **Reply #31 on:** July 20, 2006, 11:39:54 pm »

Or you can get a V92 mdm. I doubles the compression of the packets.

They are faster then the V90.

FCM_SFHQ_XC · « **Reply #32 on:** July 21, 2006, 02:56:29 pm »

So far I am averaging 49.2 Kbps and DLes are running a little bit faster

FCM_SFHQ_XC · « **Reply #33 on:** August 06, 2006, 09:55:22 am »

Humm.. well it seems that the major storm last night dropped my connection back down to the 30's.. hopefullly it will fix back up in a day or two(and it isnt my phones causing the problem since I unplugged then all and still am not getting a speed above 36 Kbps.... :/

Dracho · « **Reply #34 on:** August 09, 2006, 09:27:20 am »

Don't feel bad.. squirrels have gotten into my attic and bitten some phone wires. I have to re-run the entire system. While I am at it I am installing a patch panel, since the previous installation simply ran the same wire from room-to-room, which is a very bad way to install a phone system.

Javora · « **Reply #35 on:** August 09, 2006, 03:18:59 pm »

We have to call the phone repair people every fall because mice will get into the phone box down the street and chew up all the wires trying to make themselves a home. So it's more common than people think.

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Topic: Dial Up Question (Read 6914 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Topic: Dial Up Question (Read 6914 times)